Petrol panic buying

Geezertronic · 5 Oct 2021

reddragon said:
You do still need to plan and check operability of chargers. If you stick to Gridserve / Instavolt you are fine, other networks less so. Old Ecotricity are bad as in Beaconsfield

It's a sad statement currently against EVs if you have to check in advance whether the EV Charging stations en-route are actually working or not, in my opinion that is currently even worse than a petrol station running out of fuel as there are so little EV Charging points available in comparison. Apparently this guy also spent some time on the phone to technical support who tried a remote reboot to no avail, and he had to get a relative to collect the family in their diesel whilst he waited in the queue for a working charge point.

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reddragon · 5 Oct 2021

Geezertronic said:
It's a sad statement currently against EVs if you have to check in advance whether the EV Charging stations en-route are actually working or not, in my opinion that is currently even worse than a petrol station running out of fuel as there are so little EV Charging points available in comparison. Apparently this guy also spent some time on the phone to technical support who tried a remote reboot to no avail, and he had to get a relative to collect the family in their diesel whilst he waited in the queue for a working charge point.

As stated up thread, Charging stations now exceed petrol stations nationally.

Some providers are very reliable, some are not so a plan helps. I used to have to plan every long trip, whereas now often don't and just use reliable suppliers.

Ecotricity are dire but should vanish by the year end as Gridserve replace them in an agreed takeover deal.

Geezertronic · 5 Oct 2021

reddragon said:
As stated up thread, Charging stations now exceed petrol stations nationally.

I read what you wrote up thread and think that you are counting petrol stations as one entity whereas a petrol station will have a minimum of 4 pumps so the figure compared to charging stations grows exponentially. You stated that "there are already 3082 rapid charging stations with 11076 connectors versus 8000 petrol stations" not mentioning that at each petrol station, it is fair to assume a minimum of 4 filling points per petrol station which makes the comparison 8000 petrol stations with 32000 plus filling points

reddragon · 5 Oct 2021

Geezertronic said:
I read what you wrote up thread and think that you are counting petrol stations as one entity whereas a petrol station will have a minimum of 4 pumps so the figure compared to charging stations grows exponentially. You stated that "there are already 3082 rapid charging stations with 11076 connectors versus 8000 petrol stations" not mentioning that at each petrol station, it is fair to assume a minimum of 4 filling points per petrol station which makes the comparison 8000 petrol stations with 32000 plus filling points

You are forgetting of course that most (95%) charging is currently done at home

Dai Corner · 5 Oct 2021

Geezertronic said:
I read what you wrote up thread and think that you are counting petrol stations as one entity whereas a petrol station will have a minimum of 4 pumps so the figure compared to charging stations grows exponentially. You stated that "there are already 3082 rapid charging stations with 11076 connectors versus 8000 petrol stations" not mentioning that at each petrol station, it is fair to assume a minimum of 4 filling points per petrol station which makes the comparison 8000 petrol stations with 32000 plus filling points

Not to mention that one pump can fill ten or more vehicles an hour whereas a charge point might charge one.

reddragon · 5 Oct 2021

Dai Corner said:
Not to mention that one pump can fill ten or more vehicles an hour whereas a charge point might charge one.

Only 1% of vehicles on the road are currently EVs, with 95% of charging is done at home and public chargers being rolled out very rapidly.

I'm not quite sure what your point is here?

Geezertronic · 5 Oct 2021

reddragon said:
You are forgetting of course that most (95%) charging is currently done at home

I am not forgetting that, I was simply pointing out that your comparison figures up thread were not an accurate comparison.

Out of interest, does charging at home accommodate multiple EV Charging points? There are four adults in my house, each with the possibility that they would want to charge their EV in the future, so would multiple charging points at home be a possibility? I only ask because I've only ever seen adverts with one home charging point

AlterEgo · 5 Oct 2021

Here in SE London there’s still almost no fuel today!

Bald Rick · 5 Oct 2021

squizzler said:
It will be interesting to see the stats for rail use when they cover this “petrol panic period”.

I reckon rail will be making hay from those taking trips out of town and unwilling to take the risk of having to search for petrol in an unfamiliar town, where they don’t know the petrol retail offering very well.

Rail use has grown at roughly the same rate for the last few weeks. Nothing discernible down to the fuel issues. Certainly not enough to count as hay making.

squizzler · 5 Oct 2021

This all begs the question why the government is not suggesting motorists use the transport system rather than their own cars for the duration of the petrol panic. It kills several birds with one stone:

Reduces the pressure on fuel deliveries
Increased fare revenue would reduce the subsidy to public transport in place since last March with the pandemic.
Shows commitment to zero carbon for COP21.
Draw a line under the debunked myth public transport is unsafe for COVID.

Effectively a win-win-win-win. Why the radio silence from government and opposition. What am I missing?

brad465 · 5 Oct 2021

MattRat said:
This country is too car dependent to think like that. It's getting as bad as the USA.

It's a classic feedback loop, cut public transport services to reduce costs, less people then use them due to poor frequency and/or reliability, leading to further cuts due to subsequent losses, and repeat.

What is needed is proper investment into public transport, followed by effective promotion, then car dependency will drop. I think the Border's railway reopening to Tweedbank demonstrates what is possible, as use of the services provided exceeded expectations on reopening, making the business case better than what was initially calculated (ignoring some of the teething disruption soon after opening).

Cowley · 5 Oct 2021

I’m going to give a gentle nudge here to keep things on subject.
There’s a useful thread regarding electric vehicles already and if we could keep discussions about them in that thread and this one mainly about petrol and diesel shortages from here on that would be good.
Thank you.

Have electric vehicles been "oversold" to the detriment of public transport, walking and cycling?

Just created a new thread to discuss this as I think it's quite interesting. I rather worry about people calling for free everything for electric cars, free car tax = no Government income, free car parking = nobody is going to build or run car parks, you get nothing for nothing in this world...

www.railforums.co.uk

36270k · 5 Oct 2021

Panic seems to be subsiding, filled up at Morrisons Sunday evening and I was the only customer.

Dai Corner · 5 Oct 2021

brad465 said:
It's a classic feedback loop, cut public transport services to reduce costs, less people then use them due to poor frequency and/or reliability, leading to further cuts due to subsequent losses, and repeat.

What is needed is proper investment into public transport, followed by effective promotion, then car dependency will drop. I think the Border's railway reopening to Tweedbank demonstrates what is possible, as use of the services provided exceeded expectations on reopening, making the business case better than what was initially calculated (ignoring some of the teething disruption soon after opening).

The petrol panic seems to be worst in London and south-east England, which is also the region with the highest investment in public transport....

AlterEgo · 5 Oct 2021

Dai Corner said:
The petrol panic seems to be worst in London and south-east England, which is also the region with the highest investment in public transport....

There's a very high concentration of people here in SE London who need a vehicle for work; absolutely loads of tradesmen, not to mention the A2/ is a rat run of lorries, etc.

MattRat · 5 Oct 2021

Dai Corner said:
The petrol panic seems to be worst in London and south-east England, which is also the region with the highest investment in public transport....

And the biggest car disincentives come to think of it. And yet people still drive?

reddragon · 5 Oct 2021

AlterEgo said:
There's a very high concentration of people here in SE London who need a vehicle for work; absolutely loads of tradesmen, not to mention the A2/ is a rat run of lorries, etc.

So how come many tradesmen drive to Stratford park & get on the train with all their tools? Maybe SE London need to learn a trick or two?

squizzler · 5 Oct 2021

Dai Corner said:
The petrol panic seems to be worst in London and south-east England, which is also the region with the highest investment in public transport....

I suppose that figures, in a way. In the more backward corners of the uk (speaking purely in transport diversity terms - I was living in rural wales about four years ago), they might get through a tank of gas a week. If everyone filled up at once it would be only a weeks demand in one go. In London where motoring is more occasional, I suppose many only replenish their tank once a month. Thus if everybody there decides to fill up one day, that is a months demand in one go. So the petrol stations in London would be knocked back considerably further by exactly the same behaviour.

AlterEgo · 5 Oct 2021

reddragon said:
So how come many tradesmen drive to Stratford park & get on the train with all their tools? Maybe SE London need to learn a trick or two?

They drive a vehicle and park there, you say?

Busaholic · 5 Oct 2021

reddragon said:
So how come many tradesmen drive to Stratford park & get on the train with all their tools? Maybe SE London need to learn a trick or two?

SE London has Abbey Wood and Woolwich Arsenal Crossrail stations up their sleeve - such a shame the train route to serve them looks the classic three card trick, where the perpetrators vanish into thin air while the 'punters' nurse their losses!

EveningStar · 7 Oct 2021

westv said:
How much did that set you back - if you don't mind me asking?

Pleading forgiveness from the moderators for straying off thread, for petrol car, coming up three years old, was paying £236/m with petrol costs about £180/m. Electric car £340/m and so far looks like electric is £25/m. Bonus of free charging at work if I get there early enough. Road tax saves me £10/m and insurance about an extra £3/m. Basically, net monthly saving, no worries about petrol supplies and I get to hug a tree. Not getting too smug about petrol price volatility, which tends towards outrageous and invariably upwards, as electricity prices might hold a few future surprises.

AlterEgo · 7 Oct 2021

Half of the petrol stations are still closed by me, although I did manage to fill up from a quarter tank. Hardly any queues as I assume almost everyone now has a full tank!

steamybrian · 7 Oct 2021

Here is my report from here in Kent.
With my car fuel tank showing less than a quarter full I joined a queue of about 20 cars at my local Sainsburys petrol station. The queue quickly went down and within 10 minutes reached the pumps. Despite several pumps out of use I filled up....!

reddragon · 7 Oct 2021

EveningStar said:
Pleading forgiveness from the moderators for straying off thread, for petrol car, coming up three years old, was paying £236/m with petrol costs about £180/m. Electric car £340/m and so far looks like electric is £25/m. Bonus of free charging at work if I get there early enough. Road tax saves me £10/m and insurance about an extra £3/m. Basically, net monthly saving, no worries about petrol supplies and I get to hug a tree. Not getting too smug about petrol price volatility, which tends towards outrageous and invariably upwards, as electricity prices might hold a few future surprises.

Similar for me plus savings on servicing & maintenance

Xenophon PCDGS · 7 Oct 2021

EveningStar said:
Not getting too smug about petrol price volatility, which tends towards outrageous and invariably upwards, as electricity prices might hold a few future surprises.

Was it cigarettes or petrol that was deliberately tax-targeted by past Governments each Budget?

MattRat · 7 Oct 2021

Xenophon PCDGS said:
Was it cigarettes or petrol that was deliberately tax-targeted by past Governments each Budget?

Both/Yes

reddragon · 7 Oct 2021

Xenophon PCDGS said:
Was it cigarettes or petrol that was deliberately tax-targeted by past Governments each Budget?

Fuel duty has had its duty frozen for 10 years. Needs to be doubled!

Crossover · 7 Oct 2021

The situation around Huddersfield and Oldham, at least, seems to be normal, other than some eye-watering prices now being seen!

MattRat · 7 Oct 2021

reddragon said:
Fuel duty has had its duty frozen for 10 years. Needs to be doubled!

Fuel has multiple different taxes. They just froze that particular one to please the general public, who don't know any better.

westv · 7 Oct 2021

EveningStar said:
Pleading forgiveness from the moderators for straying off thread, for petrol car, coming up three years old, was paying £236/m with petrol costs about £180/m. Electric car £340/m and so far looks like electric is £25/m. Bonus of free charging at work if I get there early enough. Road tax saves me £10/m and insurance about an extra £3/m. Basically, net monthly saving, no worries about petrol supplies and I get to hug a tree. Not getting too smug about petrol price volatility, which tends towards outrageous and invariably upwards, as electricity prices might hold a few future surprises.

Actually I meant the cost of the car in full rather than the per month amount.

Petrol panic buying

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