Killingworth
Established Member
Not sure why but passenger train performance today has dived. Coincidentally perhaps Drax Biomass trains to/from Liverpool seem to be being diverted this way. I haven't noted this before.
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Hope Valley Capacity Scheme updates
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Thomas6187
Member
Lots of overcrowding today, Sheffield United at Manchester City, and Manchester United at Nott Forest
GardenRail
Member
The biomass trains have caused us massive problems today. They normally go via the Calder Valley or Huddersfield. They're long, heavy and quite slow, especially the ones with Class 60s on. Trying to get them through Sheffield has been, shall we say, interesting. As soon as they've ended up a few mins late, they've destroyed the timetable.
I arrived at the station around 0820 today and the 0815 Hope Valley stopper was still sat in platform 7 fully staffed and ready to go. A few mins later it was announced that (a) the 0815 was delayed due to a late running freight train & (b) it would run fast from New Mills Central to Piccadilly not stopping at intermediate stations. Another few mins later a slow moving freight ran through platform 8.
The 0815 finally left at 0841, the same time as the EMR to Norwich train which I was on. Presumably there was a reason the 0815 could not have left much earlier, well in front of the freight, but I have no idea what that reason was.
GardenRail
Member
The inward working (2S70) didn't arrive at Sheffield until 08:28, meaning the 08:15 (2S73) was late going back out at 08:41.
Killingworth
Established Member
The inward working having been held up at New Mills behind Drax 6E36; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:H33312/2023-12-30/detailed#allox_id=0
If that was an experimental Drax day it proved how much the Bamford and Dore loops are needed, and the second track through Dore & Totley!
Quite why Northern put a 2 car unit on the Hope Valley route today with all the predictable extra football traffic must remain a mystery - last year they found 6 cars and this year 4 have been run at weekends. Even the regular 3 would have been tight.
Thanks. It was the announcement about the stop skipping which caught my attention and when I looked over the 0815 was seemingly all ready to go - I must have subconsciously concluded it had been there all the time.
Greybeard33
Established Member
The Drax diversions would be because the normal route via Mirfield and Wakefield Kirkgate was blocked for TRU works. I imagine these diversions will be a regular occurrence now the Huddersfield to Ravensthorpe four tracking has started. Biomass deliveries have to be "Just In Time" - it cannot be stored like coal.
Maybe Northern was short of DMUs because its Calder Valley services were strengthened to cope with extra Manchester - Leeds passengers?
A silver lining to the cloud is that the diverted Drax trains use the Cheadle Heath freight line to avoid Stockport, so do not have to cross all four tracks of the WCML between Edgeley and Heaton Norris as they normally do!
Killingworth
Established Member
My understanding is that one of the final strands supporting the Hope Valley scheme's case was to provide just this sort of diversionary option. Completion in March is likely to be about 6 months later than hoped for when work began but still looks probable, winter bad weather permitting.
Of course unblocking the Hope Valley route doesn't unblock paths down the Sheaf and Don Valleys and through Sheffield.
Today there's a blockade through Dore so Northern units will be released to assist elsewhere.
1st January 2024 update from Dore & Totley.
Not much progress to see since before Christmas. There's been some attention to an overbridge out of sight to the right. Brick facing on the lift shafts is almost complete and smaller buildings below are up to waist height. Until they're complete the footbridge span, stairs and roofs cannot be brought in. There's still a lot to do in 12 weeks.
The Dore loop/chord site below Poynton Wood and West View Lane seems to have seen relatively little action recently. With all the recent very wet weather that must be causing concern although it's still expected to be ready on time.
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WesternBiker
Member
Great photographs - thank you for the update. What works are underway at the other end of the loop/chord (I'm not sure what acess is like at the other end)?
Jozhua
Established Member
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Thank you for the update!
Remarkable how much better the railway looks like this - more fitting of something carrying 6 trains per hour (to be 8 in future).
Killingworth
Established Member
It's been very wet in recent weeks, not least today, and it's understandable if work may be slipping a little behind target. Nevertheless the aim is for track to be laid on the Dore loop next month. Many moons ago we were told at a local information event that they planned to do all civils over the summer months to avoid bad weather. We must all cross fingers and hope we've had most of this winter's rain and snow and that severe frosts keep away.
Today's (3/1/24) pictures. First shows the loop from the west. Currently used crossover still in place. Both tracks merge just out of shot. Signal to the left appears from the opposite side in pictures two and three. Telephoto shots foreshorten the images.
Killingworth
Established Member
I've stopped presuming anything but yes, it's to do with the retaining wall. Seems to be road cement mixers coming onto site. Residents in the adjacent housing association flats aren't too happy with the time it's taking and the mess.
WesternBiker
Member
Thank you - great shots as always.
Jamesrob637
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Getting drier for a period of time from today, so a chance to catch up now people are back at work from the festive period.
Killingworth
Established Member
Lots more activity today although previously suggested dates for the foot bridge installation have passed and the most recent may too. A number of weekend blockades due so time to catch up.
Update at Wednesday 10th January 2024.
Project still just about on track to become operational on 25th March but there's very little scope for any unplanned complications - like weather. All being well the footbridge should be installed this month, probably 20/21st but may have to be finished 27/28th. New rails for the extended Dore chord/loop have been positioned ready to install for weeks - just needs the muddy hillside to be excavated and stabilised. That track laying's supposed to happen on 11th February.
Dore & Totley station's 129 space car park was due to partially reopen today for about 6 weeks with full closure again from then until 6th April, full reopening thereafter. This morning it was announced that the car park is to remain fully closed until 31st May. To say that's not going down well would be an understatement. However, station users can see very clearly that work is behind schedule and by the end of March there'll still be a lot to do to restore the park and surrounding areas after the tracks become operational. (The large conifer and the old shelter have to go but no final plans for that or what will replace them have been made known.)
Here's how the footbridge lift towers looked this afternoon, seemingly they're now roofed Only gloomy drizzle today but cold.
As an aside 5 buzzards were seen soaring above the woods opposite last week. That's not something you'd expect to see at most suburban railway stations.
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td97
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Entry into service for the Hazel Grove resignalling is expected on 21 January. This will see the Edgeley to Hazel Grove line speed increase to 60mph (Down/to Manchester) or 55mph (Up), an increase from the existing 40/35.
Jamesrob637
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Bit annoying because I wanted to travel by train the whole way from Woodsmoor to Altrincham and back on the 20th. However, Stockport is only 2 miles away, so no biggie to catch a train or number 11 bus there instead. I have a £1 sale ticket Altrincham to Stockport return at 21:00, whereupon I will probably just walk thre 2 miles home.
323235
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D365
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Is a capacity uplift still on the cards?
Killingworth
Established Member
One day, when capacity at Piccadilly, through Stockport, down the Sheaf Valley and in Sheffield can be resolved- assuming that's not used for other services.
Still scope to increase more trains to 6 car, assuming the TOCs have the rolling stock which they currently don't seem to have.
What's the plan for pathing late expressses vs stoppers please @Killingworth?
I was on the stopper yesterday and we got held in Sheffield for a late TPE but departed ahead of it, then got held at Heeley for the TPE to pass, which meant we we late all the way down the line.
Obviously it depends on how the late the express it but will there be passing options further down the line at e.g. Dore and Bamford, assuming no freight is alreaedy there?
I was on the stopper yesterday and we got held in Sheffield for a late TPE but departed ahead of it, then got held at Heeley for the TPE to pass, which meant we we late all the way down the line.
Obviously it depends on how the late the express it but will there be passing options further down the line at e.g. Dore and Bamford, assuming no freight is alreaedy there?
High Dyke
Established Member
That's what I love about some of these signalling schemes. You end up with less signals than before, which impacts on headway and capacity. The East Nottingham scheme was just the same.
There is no bi-di on the photos of the workstation upthread, and the Bamford loop is only accessible to Sheffield-bound trains. So any late running on westbound trains will need to be dealt with before Dore station junction, as it is today.
Killingworth
Established Member
Hope Valley line users on the stopping services know that problem very well! It happens frequently.
The current scheme is unlikely to help at all as both only directly assist eastbound traffic. If there's any train held up coming into Sheffield from the north and east through the narrow 2 track throat from Nunnery it's likely to knock on to services going south and west operated by TPE and XC.
The Northern stopper will be delayed by those higher priority services and any late running EMR London trains. The same will happen if there's a potential conflict with northbound services at Dore Station Junction as the stopper has to cross that traffic. There'll be small improvement there from April as Hope Valley trains of all sorts will be able to cross through Dore & Totley and across the Junction.
At the public inquiry into the scheme it was noted that a possible option to make Dore & Totley station bi-directional had been left in one of the diagrams. That was a mistake. I have previously said that was an opportunity missed to create another effective loop. Cost of points!
Once the stopper is released from the platform at Sheffield the only places it can be overtaken by the following TPE are the loop just outside the station and once it gets to Chinley. The loop at Earles Sidings is only ever used in emergencies as it's required for freight services.
Northern like to run to time so will try to leave the platform as scheduled. Their crews are as frustrated as anyone by this.
Another option could have been to allow access to the new Dore loop from the Sheffield direction. Due to the cant on that loop line that would have been a lot more difficult than it seems on paper. That option was ruled out quite early on.
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Killingworth
Established Member
And it could be at least partially avoidable if the Northern service could run into Dore on time and allow the TPE to overtake while in the platform. I say partially because that would encounter difficulties with east bound traffic potentially blocked to allow it but at least the stopper would be off and across the MML.
The points and signalling required for such a movement assessed as likely to be infrequent appear to have been too costly both to install and maintain. The scheme was inevitably already costing more than originally budgeted.
chazi898
Member
Since the new chord round the west to east curve at the triangle seems to be longer, perhaps they could install a set of points where it veers off, to make it an effective loop; it looks plenty long enough to hold a 6 car train for a short time.
If I'm understanding your proposal correctly, you'd be cutting the effective length of the chord, which was a major aim of the project. Looping the stopper at or near Dore is not the correct solution, the focus should be on getting the TPE to run to time and asking why that doesn't happen, because then nobody would be suggesting infrastructure solutions costing tens of millions of pounds if the timetable was kept to.
Providing an additional set of points off the eastbound track at Dore would be difficult with the curvature (although not impossible), require greater interlocking and also prevent freight trains being held on the curve clear of the MML (again, this was a MAJOR goal of this project) due to the curve being effectively back to what it was. You would also likely cause major issues with the cant of the track as points (for obvious reasons) have very small tolerance for any cant in the curved leg. Nice idea but sadly there are good reasons why it hasn't been done.
Providing bi-di through Dore would have been very difficult because of the curvature of the track and the presence of the bridge immediately north of the junction on the MML, so the facing crossover to allow westbound trains to get to the wrong line would have had quite big margins against the Down MML, and then it's an extra 2 sets of points to maintain on the MML, in addition to the additional crossover at Totley Tunnel east, and all the associated interlocking for the additional routes at each junction and through Dore & Totley station.
For every extra difficulty it costs more to solve, at some point, you are spending more money than the benefits you are gaining.