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Ex LNER (and Grand Central) Mark 4 sets for TfW

LNW-GW Joint

LNW-GW Joint

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The Mk4 sets and locos seem to need a huge amount of technical attention and it seems never-ending with set upgrades and rebranding etc.
Would the same number of 5-car 197 sets need anything like the same level of technical support?
I should think the costs of LHCS operation far exceeds that of the unit equivalent.
 
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Steveswan10

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So I assume this is correct, HD01 is now 5 car, HD03 is 5 car nearing re-entering service as is HD07 and HD05 is next to be extended, is there any idea on when HD02, HD04 and HD06 will have their 5th car added? And will there ever be a HD08 (is that the set down at Bristol?)
 
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sd0733

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LNW-GW Joint said:
The Mk4 sets and locos seem to need a huge amount of technical attention and it seems never-ending with set upgrades and rebranding etc.
Would the same number of 5-car 197 sets need anything like the same level of technical support?
I should think the costs of LHCS operation far exceeds that of the unit equivalent.
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At this point they've had effectively zero spent on rebrands, just a few stickers on the side. Any train is going to need repainting eventually and Will be budgeted in.
Yes they have money spent on Upgrades but they were a tiny proportion of the purchase costs of a 197, the whole fleet costing less than the cost of 1 3 car 197, granted they won't last nearly as long.
The 197s are hardly a shining example of not needing technical support, they've had to have fleet wide checks twice now to keep them in service and have constant onboard issues which seem to be getting worse not better. Even now there's units out of service for weeks and months at a time with faults and still aren't even able to run 5 cars on the route they were really intended to run 5 coaches on!
 
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Anonymous10

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Steveswan10 said:
So I assume this is correct, HD01 is now 5 car, HD03 is 5 car nearing re-entering service as is HD07 and HD05 is next to be extended, is there any idea on when HD02, HD04 and HD06 will have their 5th car added? And will there ever be a HD08 (is that the set down at Bristol?)
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Yes hd08 is at Bristol, seems that its paused due to cost but is a backup set.
 
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sd0733

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Steveswan10 said:
So I assume this is correct, HD01 is now 5 car, HD03 is 5 car nearing re-entering service as is HD07 and HD05 is next to be extended, is there any idea on when HD02, HD04 and HD06 will have their 5th car added? And will there ever be a HD08 (is that the set down at Bristol?)
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Yes that's right. After HD05 none will be due B exams for a few weeks so there'll likely be a pause before the last 3 are done which at least will allow some stability.

HD08 is quite well stripped internally but I believe the plan is long term to now get it going if possible at Bristol once the 5 car programme is complete but depends on its condition once it's stripped down.

Anonymous10 said:
Yes hd08 is at Bristol, seems that its paused due to cost but is a backup set.
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Not really cost, more availability of spare parts which have been used off 08 to get the additional coaches going first.
 
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Newp410

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sd0733 said:
At this point they've had effectively zero spent on rebrands, just a few stickers on the side. Any train is going to need repainting eventually and Will be budgeted in.
Yes they have money spent on Upgrades but they were a tiny proportion of the purchase costs of a 197, the whole fleet costing less than the cost of 1 3 car 197, granted they won't last nearly as long.
The 197s are hardly a shining example of not needing technical support, they've had to have fleet wide checks twice now to keep them in service and have constant onboard issues which seem to be getting worse not better. Even now there's units out of service for weeks and months at a time with faults and still aren't even able to run 5 cars on the route they were really intended to run 5 coaches on!
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And that is the point most seem to miss. I would say 197 availability is worse than the mk4s due to the constant niggly faults such as toilets out of use which mean plenty of set swaps or substitution by other traction.

HD08 (or HD99 as mentioned in the tender document) whatever it is going to be called will be a welcome addition if it can be brought back, there are still a few Mk4s dotted here and there which have been bought for further use (such as the two at York ROC) and there is oppurtunity in the next few years to obtain more sets either for service or spares once CAF deliver LNER's Mk4 replacement trains.
 
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sd0733

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Newp410 said:
And that is the point most seem to miss. I would say 197 availability is worse than the mk4s due to the constant niggly faults such as toilets out of use which mean plenty of set swaps or substitution by other traction.

HD08 (or HD99 as mentioned in the tender document) whatever it is going to be called will be a welcome addition if it can be brought back, there are still a few Mk4s dotted here and there which have been bought for further use (such as the two at York ROC) and there is oppurtunity in the next few years to obtain more sets either for service or spares once CAF deliver LNER's Mk4 replacement trains.
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Toilets are atrocious but there's also other repeating faults with transmission, engines, DPFs, ASDO, doors alongside general system faults on practically every unit. I actually quite like the interiors and they're certainly quick but the toilets, ride and general poor quality really let them down.

Back to Mk4s! As I understand it HD08 and HD99 are Two separate things. HD08 is currently split between Bristol and Landore awaiting reinstatement if possible Whilst HD99 is the spare coaches all of which are at Landore but will be overhauled and maintenaned as part of that tender.
HD08 though has been quite on off so could well have changed again since I last heard.
 
TT-ONR-NRN

TT-ONR-NRN

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A problem with 67025+HD06, I assume, as 1714 CDF HHD passengers are being herded onto 197007.

(Insert head shaking emoji here)
 

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TT-ONR-NRN

TT-ONR-NRN

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TrainTrackJack said:
Yes quite disappointed myself as I've booked accommodation for it in Holyhead... thankfully I can get the 18.55 Manchester which is a 67 and then a 221 from Crewe to Holyhead.
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I’m sorry to hear that. :( Transport for Wales really is quite poor in terms of providing their advertised services, whether that’s a lack of advertised facilities in this case, short formations (again in this case), or a failure of services to run through to their final destination (as with the service I saw just half an hour beforehand)

Edit: 17:49 to Manchester is now 2 cars VS 4, presumably to cover the 197 now going to Holyhead, or the previous 197 to Carmarthen requiring a swap.
 
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sd0733

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TrainTrackJack said:
Yes quite disappointed myself as I've booked accommodation for it in Holyhead... thankfully I can get the 18.55 Manchester which is a 67 and then a 221 from Crewe to Holyhead.
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Oh dear sorry. Not sure what the issue was with that set but obviously something as was still marked to it until a few minutes before departure.
Hopefully still managed a decent trip via Crewe. Unfortunately the Holyhead not running does guarantee the morning one won't either. :frown:
 
TT-ONR-NRN

TT-ONR-NRN

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sd0733 said:
Oh dear sorry. Not sure what the issue was with that set but obviously something as was still marked to it until a few minutes before departure.
Hopefully still managed a decent trip via Crewe. Unfortunately the Holyhead not running does guarantee the morning one won't either. :frown:
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On the bright side, the 221s offer beautiful views of the North Wales Coast with their big windows :D
 
TrainTrackJack

TrainTrackJack

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sd0733 said:
Hopefully still managed a decent trip via Crewe.
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Indeed I did thank you :D. The driver of 67010 being keen to show what they're capable of... kept to time the whole way up, nice for an evening run to not be checked by a late running unit ahead of us.

TT-ONR-NRN said:
On the bright side, the 221s offer beautiful views of the North Wales Coast with their big windows :D
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I've certainly enjoyed the various beacons flashing in the water this evening :lol:
 
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sd0733

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TrainTrackJack said:
Indeed I did thank you :D. The driver of 67010 being keen to show what they're capable of... kept to time the whole way up, nice for an evening run to not be checked by a late running unit ahead of us.
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Glad managed to salvage something from it! That set with 67010 on does seem pretty quick at the moment as well.
 
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ATP

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According to RTT the afternoon ex-Manchester aren’t running today. Massive shame I was booked in 1st on one!
 
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sd0733

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ATP said:
According to RTT the afternoon ex-Manchester aren’t running today. Massive shame I was booked in 1st on one!
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Some changes after HD06 had a door fault last night and didn't go to Holyhead.
That's now working the early Manchester and evening Holyhead with HD04 now in Cardiff and due to work 12:49 to Manchester then 16:30 to Swansea later.
 
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NigelRail

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sd0733 said:
Some changes after HD06 had a door fault last night and didn't go to Holyhead.
That's now working the early Manchester and evening Holyhead with HD04 now in Cardiff and due to work 12:49 to Manchester then 16:30 to Swansea later.
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Is it just HD04 and HD06 in service at the moment?
 
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sd0733

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FrodshamJnct said:
Only ones out today, yes, but HD02 was out earlier this week.
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HD02 is now on an A exam so won't be out for too long.

HD01 is going for a trip to Newport and back tonight so should re-enter service tomorrow at 12:49 from Cardiff

HD03 is available from Saturday but will be a spare set on Saturday.

HD07 should complete its exam Friday, static tests Saturday so won't be out for long either.

Couple of diagram changes on Saturday sees the set that works to Holyhead the previous night come out as 08:24 Holyhead to Cardiff before going to Manchester and another working 19:34 Cardiff to Holyhead.
 
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Class15

Class15

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sd0733 said:
HD02 is now on an A exam so won't be out for too long.

HD01 is going for a trip to Newport and back tonight so should re-enter service tomorrow at 12:49 from Cardiff

HD03 is available from Saturday but will be a spare set on Saturday.

HD07 should complete its exam Friday, static tests Saturday so won't be out for long either.

Couple of diagram changes on Saturday sees the set that works to Holyhead the previous night come out as 08:24 Holyhead to Cardiff before going to Manchester and another working 19:34 Cardiff to Holyhead.
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Forgive me for my ignorance, but where is HD05?
 
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NigelRail

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sd0733 said:
Something flagged up seemingly on the test run as showing as under repair today now. Now expected out tomorrow alongside HD02, HD04 and HD06.
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So with HD03 as a spare, for the foreseeable future we should see all diagrams covered?
 
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sd0733

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NigelRail said:
So with HD03 as a spare, for the foreseeable future we should see all diagrams covered?
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Things should certainly be somewhat better than recently, there's a full house of 4 booked Saturday and 2 booked Sunday Diagrams this weekend and all 7 sets now have locos on.
HD03 is now programmed for PIS upgrades over the weekend to rather than being spare but should be out early next week. HD07 should also be on its test on Monday so by Tuesday there should be 6 sets available with only HD05 on exam/lengthening.

Tomorrow's diagrams are different to the normal ones:

67029+HD01
04:35 Cardiff-Manchester
08:30 Manchester-Cardiff
12:52 Cardiff-Manchester
16:30 Manchester-Swansea

67008+HD02
04:54 Crewe-Cardiff
08:49 Cardiff-Manchester
12:30 Manchester-Cardiff
16:49 Cardiff-Manchester

67010+HD04
08:24 Holyhead-Cardiff
18:55 Cardiff-Manchester

67025+HD06
06:27 Manchester-Cardiff
10:52 Cardiff-Manchester
14:30 Manchester-Cardiff
19:41 Cardiff-Holyhead
 
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Lurcheroo

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sd0733 said:
HD07 should also be on its test on Monday so by Tuesday there should be 6 sets available with only HD05 on exam/lengthening.
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So could Tuesday see the full 5 diagrams covered if all goes well? And would that be the first time ?
And would HD01,3 and 7 all be 5 cars ?
 
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sd0733

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Lurcheroo said:
So could Tuesday see the full 5 diagrams covered if all goes well? And would that be the first time ?
And would HD01,3 and 7 all be 5 cars ?
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Believe it'll be the normal 4 diagrams until all the 5 cars are done. Theres never been 5 diagrams yet, The 5th diagram is STP'd to be booked 197 and has previously been 175/150/158 since the Mk4 introduction. In theory they could cover for the 197 if everyone for the day signed Mk4s and there's someone in place to carry out the prep at Canton. In a couple of weeks the 3 remaining 4 car sets will all end up due exams which, almost guaranteed will make availability dip again.
 
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Lurcheroo

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sd0733 said:
Believe it'll be the normal 4 diagrams until all the 5 cars are done. Theres never been 5 diagrams yet, The 5th diagram is STP'd to be booked 197 and has previously been 175/150/158 since the Mk4 introduction. In theory they could cover for the 197 if everyone for the day signed Mk4s and there's someone in place to carry out the prep at Canton. In a couple of weeks the 3 remaining 4 car sets will all end up due exams which, almost guaranteed will make availability dip again.
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Ahh that makes sense ! Would be nice to see all 5 get covered even if only for a day. Would feel like a bit more progress for sure !

I can accept the availability dip for getting them 5 cars.
 
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