June 2024 reopening of the line between Clitheroe and Hellifield for passenger trains

Gaz67 · 30 Jan 2024

Geeves said:
It's seemed the case to me for a while that ASLEF at Blackpool have been on an empire building scheme for some time. The rumours are that they are out already road learning Vic to Clitheroe in preparation for this potential new service despite the fact it should be Blackburn work. It's ASLEF at Blackpool that are essentially the reason why hundreds of drivers at other NW depot's lost any routes and traction beyond their own links in the process adding hundreds more cancellations.

I was reluctant to answer the original post as firstly short of being disappointed 3 times when I tried to use this service in its last summer, I dont consider it my business ,as in everything in life there will be 2 sides to this and this isnt the place to discuss it in my opinion, others may disagree. On a wider point regarding unions I personally dont have a problem with strong unions strong arming management, this is how the things we take for granted in the workplace have been won. What I do deplore is a union treating its membership unequally, if there is any truth in the above then shame on ASLEF and its committee. Thats it for me on this subtopic and hopefully we can get back to discussing the actual train service soon.

RailUK Forums

sandpiper · 30 Jan 2024

Geeves said:
It's seemed the case to me for a while that ASLEF at Blackpool have been on an empire building scheme for some time. The rumours are that they are out already road learning Vic to Clitheroe in preparation for this potential new service despite the fact it should be Blackburn work. It's ASLEF at Blackpool that are essentially the reason why hundreds of drivers at other NW depot's lost any routes and traction beyond their own links in the process adding hundreds more cancellations.

From what I hear from talking to Blackburn crews you have hit the nail on the head. Northern cannot do anything without the say-so of just a handful of representatives on a union committee. They apparently block anything that gives even the whiff of work transfers resulting in the fact that new or altered services are abandoned at the discussion stage. I too, heard the rumour that Blackpool were route-refreshing Blackburn to Hellifield again which strikes me as pointless because, A, It would mean a 30mile journey to pick up a train if they are to be a continuation of the Rochdale-Clitheroes and B, they don't seem to be able to keep the trains that they have got now running due to short-staffing. A once a week service is going to be the first trains caped if Blackpool Crews are needed for Manchester Airport, Liverpool, or York trains. From what I could make out there is a lot of frustration and disillusionment directed towards the union, (it was a driver I was talking to).

Geeves · 30 Jan 2024

Yes I agree and it doesn't really matter to the regular passengers who's driving so long that somebody is! We should really take potential road learning at this stage as a positive. Hopefully with all the depots helping out

I for one am very much looking forward to a Vic to Ribblehead ride out.

Iskra · 10 Feb 2024

Northern's latest track access application shows the Blackpool starters as deleted for the entirety of 2024.

However, in more positive news- there are two Saturday return trips from Manchester via Rochdale and Clitheroe to Ribblehead instead. This is a much more sensible use of resources as was suggested on here, and likely to be much more popular- if advertised well, as this allows a scenic train ride and/or a nice walk in the heart of the Yorkshire Dales, where you could probably do Ingleborough and Whernside before catching the train back towards Manchester. Great work from Northern, we just need the adverstising now!

This launches on the 8th of June.

Gathursty · 10 Feb 2024

Iskra said:
Northern's latest track access application show's the Blackpool starters as deleted for the entirety of 2024.

However, in more positive news- there are two Saturday return trips from Manchester via Rochdale and Clitheroe to Ribblehead instead. This is a much more sensible use of resources as was suggested on here, and likely to be much more popular- if advertised well, as this allows a scenic train ride and/or a nice walk in the heart of the Yorkshire Dales, where you could probably do Ingleborough and Whernside before catching the train back towards Manchester. Great work from Northern, we just need the adverstising now!

This launches on the 8th of June.

Reversing at Blackburn?

Iskra · 10 Feb 2024

Gathursty said:
Reversing at Blackburn?

I'm not entirely sure as some of the Rochdale trains take a route from Manchester via Bolton and Darwen I believe, so could continue through Blackburn to Clitheroe and onwards without reversing, so we may need to wait and see.

zwk500 · 10 Feb 2024

Iskra said:
I'm not entirely sure as some of the Rochdale trains take a route from Manchester via Bolton and Darwen I believe, so could continue through Blackburn to Clitheroe and onwards without reversing, so we may need to wait and see.

If the route is 'via Rochdale' it will need a reversal in Blackburn. Perfectly feasible to do so, of course.

Iskra · 10 Feb 2024

zwk500 said:
If the route is 'via Rochdale' it will need a reversal in Blackburn. Perfectly feasible to do so, of course.

It could be either of:

Rochdale-Manchester Victoria-Bolton-Darwen-Blackburn-Clitheroe-Ribblehead. No reversal required.
Manchester Victoria-Rochdale-Todmorden-Burnley-Blackburn [Reverse] - Clitheroe- Ribblehead.

Either way though, connecting Ribblehead directly with Manchester is fantastic news.

zwk500 · 10 Feb 2024

Iskra said:
Rochdale-Manchester Victoria-Bolton-Darwen-Blackburn-Clitheroe-Ribblehead. No reversal required.

Pedantically, this is not Manchester to Clitheroe via Rochdale, but Rochdale to Clitheroe via Manchester.

Either way, the point is there is a direct 'walkers train' and it will be interesting to see how successful it is.

Horseman · 11 Feb 2024

Has it been confirmed which depot(s) will sign this?

Jack Hay · 11 Feb 2024

Horseman said:
Has it been confirmed which depot(s) will sign this?

I heard from a contact in Northern that they are planning for it to be a Blackburn duty, but that there is some negotiation to do. Which is consistent with what we've discussed upthread, although in this case I wish management could just decide and get on with it, without needing to negotiate anything. It is more work for drivers after all... why should anyone object !

As regards 'confirmation', I don't think Northern necessarily need to confirm anything publicly.

Iskra · 11 Feb 2024

Jack Hay said:
I heard from a contact in Northern that they are planning for it to be a Blackburn duty, but that there is some negotiation to do. Which is consistent with what we've discussed upthread, although in this case I wish management could just decide and get on with it, without needing to negotiate anything. It is more work for drivers after all... why should anyone object ! As regards 'confirmation', I don't think Northern necessarily need to confirm anything publicly.

Well, isn’t the problem more that Blackpool are reluctant to lose it?

InkyScrolls · 11 Feb 2024

Iskra said:
Well, isn’t the problem more that Blackpool are reluctant to lose it?

They haven't though! Northern has been quite clever in that the original Blackpool - Carlisle trains were canned, followed by a year gap. This means that the new services, as they're going from and to different locations, aren't a 'reintroduction', they're new - so Blackpool hasn't lost anything per se.

Iskra · 11 Feb 2024

InkyScrolls said:
They haven't though! Northern has been quite clever in that the original Blackpool - Carlisle trains were canned, followed by a year gap. This means that the new services, as they're going from and to different locations, aren't a 'reintroduction', they're new - so Blackpool hasn't lost anything per se.

Clever

Horseman · 11 Feb 2024

InkyScrolls said:
They haven't though! Northern has been quite clever in that the original Blackpool - Carlisle trains were canned, followed by a year gap. This means that the new services, as they're going from and to different locations, aren't a 'reintroduction', they're new - so Blackpool hasn't lost anything per se.

Classic

Jack Hay · 12 Feb 2024

Iskra said:
Well, isn’t the problem more that Blackpool are reluctant to lose it?

And to add to the replies above, Northern are not going to market the new service as Dalesrail. It will be something else. I can't remember what (or maybe Northern didn't tell us stakeholders).

Bletchleyite · 12 Feb 2024

Jack Hay said:
And to add to the replies above, Northern are not going to market the new service as Dalesrail. It will be something else. I can't remember what (or maybe Northern didn't tell us stakeholders).

I hope it is well-marketed. Northern do seem to fail on this a bit, everything is just the "Narthern service to X", with Connect etc having been long dropped.

And it MUST NOT ever be cancelled on an infrequent service like that. They need to make sure they drop something else instead if it's ever a problem.

Jack Hay · 12 Feb 2024

Bletchleyite said:
I hope it is well-marketed. Northern do seem to fail on this a bit, everything is just the "Narthern service to X", with Connect etc having been long dropped.

And it MUST NOT ever be cancelled on an infrequent service like that. They need to make sure they drop something else instead if it's ever a problem.

I agree. If I get the chance (another stakeholder meeting would be a good opportunity) I shall say this to them directly.

norbitonflyer · 13 Feb 2024

Iskra said:
there are two Saturday return trips from Manchester via Rochdale and Clitheroe to Ribblehead instead.

This launches on the 8th of June.

Do we have timings?

Bow Fell · 13 Feb 2024

Geeves said:
It's seemed the case to me for a while that ASLEF at Blackpool have been on an empire building scheme for some time. The rumours are that they are out already road learning Vic to Clitheroe in preparation for this potential new service despite the fact it should be Blackburn work. It's ASLEF at Blackpool that are essentially the reason why hundreds of drivers at other NW depot's lost any routes and traction beyond their own links in the process adding hundreds more cancellations.

Liverpool lost a whole load of Blackpool work over the years, losing Stalybridge to Huddersfield was the final blow. No wonder a lot went to TPE!

Nowadays all the core work is an Airport and back and 2 Wigans, or 2 Warrington Centrals and an Oxford Road and back, maybe a Man Vic to Chester or a Blackpool once in a blue moon :rolleyes:

Anyway back on topic…..

InkyScrolls · 19 Feb 2024

Well it's official - Northern has published its timetable for June '24 and there are two round trips each Saturday from Rochdale to Ribblehead via Manchester Victoria, very conveniently timed IMO.

Also - and I'm quite proud of this as it was due to a suggestion made by myself that the following change occurred - 2H92, the 1518 Leeds to Carlisle, will call additionally at Long Preston, filling a long afternoon gap.

duffield · 19 Feb 2024

InkyScrolls said:
Well it's official - Northern has published its timetable for June '24 and there are two round trips each Saturday from Rochdale to Ribblehead via Manchester Victoria, very conveniently timed IMO.

Also - and I'm quite proud of this as it was due to a suggestion made by myself that the following change occurred - 2H92, the 1518 Leeds to Carlisle, will call additionally at Long Preston, filling a long afternoon gap.

It should probably be obvious to me (and has likely been mentioned before) but where exactly can I find this new timetable? I've searched without success so far.

Bletchleyite · 19 Feb 2024

duffield said:
It should probably be obvious to me (and has likely been mentioned before) but where exactly can I find this new timetable? I've searched without success so far.

They're on Realtime Trains. Very well timed for a day's walking.

lyndhurst25 · 19 Feb 2024

Realtime Trains | 2N60 0752 Rochdale to Ribblehead | 08/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 2N60 0752 departure from Rochdale to Ribblehead on 08/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 2J22 1108 Ribblehead to Rochdale | 08/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 2J22 1108 departure from Ribblehead to Rochdale on 08/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 2N61 1452 Rochdale to Ribblehead | 08/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 2N61 1452 departure from Rochdale to Ribblehead on 08/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 2J26 1805 Ribblehead to Rochdale | 08/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 2J26 1805 departure from Ribblehead to Rochdale on 08/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

wilbers · 19 Feb 2024

Hmm, going the other way it gives 2 hours in Manchester - not long, but probably worth trying once for curiosity value rather than going the normal (and faster) direct route from here to Piccadilly. Times fit in fairly well with the Carlisle-Leeds trains to do that. 1051->1108 and 1726->1806 if change at Ribblehead (or can change at other stations to Hellifield).

Ant158 · 19 Feb 2024

Good to see that the trains will serve the Ribble Valley stations, I wonder if a 4 car or 2 car will run the service, considering the back 2 carriages are routinely locked out after Ramsgreave & Wilpshire these days. Traction wise, I wonder if it will be planned for class 156 operation, or just whatever 15x is rolled out that day.

InkyScrolls · 20 Feb 2024

What I'd like to know is now these new services will be crewed.

Condor7 · 20 Feb 2024

That is good news. Based on Real Time Trains however it doesn’t look like the Sunday only Carlisle to Blackpool North has been reinstated which was rumoured would be this year. Has anyone any news on that?

InkyScrolls · 20 Feb 2024

Condor7 said:
That is good news. Based on Real Time Trains however it doesn’t look like the Sunday only Carlisle to Blackpool North has been reinstated which was rumoured would be this year. Has anyone any news on that?

That will not be running - the RCD-RHD services are a (not quite like-for-like) replacement, which to my mind at least is a huge improvement!

yorksrob · 20 Feb 2024

InkyScrolls said:
Well it's official - Northern has published its timetable for June '24 and there are two round trips each Saturday from Rochdale to Ribblehead via Manchester Victoria, very conveniently timed IMO.

Also - and I'm quite proud of this as it was due to a suggestion made by myself that the following change occurred - 2H92, the 1518 Leeds to Carlisle, will call additionally at Long Preston, filling a long afternoon gap.

This is very good news. Mancs will now be able to enjoy the Dales by train.

Also, taking in Settle and Horton makes sense.

June 2024 reopening of the line between Clitheroe and Hellifield for passenger trains

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