June 2024 reopening of the line between Clitheroe and Hellifield for passenger trains

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If there are Northern staff at Blackpool who do not like the routes they have, they should put in a request to move to other depots rather than demanding preferred routes be given to them. Local news might have a field day with this so they should be mindful how far to push this demand.

Why are Blackpool Northern staff involved about a service that starts from Rochdale and goes nowhere near to Blackpool?

 

[D6130]

Why are Blackpool Northern staff involved about a service that starts from Rochdale and goes nowhere near to Blackpool?

Because the previous DalesRail service, which ran on Sundays during the season from Blackpool North to Carlisle via Clitheroe, was worked by Blackpool crews as far as Hellifield, where they were relieved by Skipton crews. As a result, Blackpool depot seem to be claiming 'grandfather rights'if you will.

 

[Llandudno]

Because the previous DalesRail service, which ran on Sundays during the season from Blackpool North to Carlisle via Clitheroe, was worked by Blackpool crews as far as Hellifield, where they were relieved by Skipton crews. As a result, Blackpool depot seem to be claiming 'grandfather rights'if you will.

But wasn’t the Dales Rail service regularly cancelled owing to no (presumably Blackpool) train crew being available…?

 

[D6130]

But wasn’t the Dales Rail service regularly cancelled owing to no (presumably Blackpool) train crew being available…?

Funnily enough, yes! It wasn't the only service operated by Blackpool crews that was regularly cancelled. AIUI, they are perpetually short of conductors.

 

[Meerkat]

Surely the National union leadership should be laying down the law and explaining to the Blackpool lot how the Daily Mail/Telegraph will spin this!?

 

[Jack Hay]

Because the previous DalesRail service, which ran on Sundays during the season from Blackpool North to Carlisle via Clitheroe, was worked by Blackpool crews as far as Hellifield, where they were relieved by Skipton crews. As a result, Blackpool depot seem to be claiming 'grandfather rights'if you will.

Northern are very keen to point out that this is not DalesRail, so reference to 'the previous DalesRail service' here or anywhere else is unhelpful. It is not going to be marketed as DalesRail. Some differences; it starts from Rochdale and Manchester, not Blackpool. It runs to Ribblehead, not Carlisle. It runs on Saturdays, not Sundays. It runs all year, not just in summer.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

reference to 'the previous DalesRail service' here or anywhere else is unhelpful

Says who? While there are differences such as Rochdale origin instead of Blackpool, and whether it runs on Saturday or Sunday is really rather unnecessarily pedantic, any limited service train running from the Clitheroe line and south of it, over the disused stretch to Helifield, and up the Settle and Carlisle line somewhere, is always going to effectively be a retake on DalesRail in some shape or form, and it is not fair to say that no reference to the previous incarnation is of use.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Says who? While there are differences such as Rochdale origin instead of Blackpool, and whether it runs on Saturday or Sunday is really rather unnecessarily pedantic, any limited service train running from the Clitheroe line and south of it, over the disused stretch to Helifield, and up the Settle and Carlisle line somewhere, is always going to effectively be a retake on DalesRail in some shape or form, and it is not fair to say that no reference to the previous incarnation is of use.

And I'm fairly sure that previous incarnations of DalesRail have terminated short of Carlisle and have run from Manchester, though I don't know about Saturdays. It has taken various very different forms over the years.

 

[Starmill]

And I'm fairly sure that previous incarnations of DalesRail have terminated short of Carlisle and have run from Manchester, though I don't know about Saturdays. It has taken various very different forms over the years.

The 'Ribble Rambler' often ran in the off season or shoulder season. It was usually two train pairs rather than one and usually to Hellifield only.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 'Ribble Rambler' often ran in the off season or shoulder season. It was usually two train pairs rather than one and usually to Hellifield only.

I don't mean that (truly a one man, dog and bicycle service) but earlier DalesRail incarnations, e.g. in the 1980s.

 

[Class 170101]

Surely the National union leadership should be laying down the law and explaining to the Blackpool lot how the Daily Mail/Telegraph will spin this!?

 

[MidsMike]

The Northern Rail £10 newspaper offer starts this week with tickets valid until 19th July.

 

[Jack Hay]

I see that Northern have announced fares for the new direct service to Ribblehead that starts next Saturday (8 June). I haven't found them on brfares.com yet but they do show on the Northern website. If you try buying a ticket for Saturday, on the Northern site, you're offered Manchester to Ribblehead return for £25, off peak day return, route Clitheroe, or £16.50 with a railcard, compared to the usual fare of £41.80 (any time return) via Leeds. There are fares for other S&C stations too. Of course the 'route Clitheroe' day return can only be used on a Saturday.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I see that Northern have announced fares for the new direct service to Ribblehead that starts next Saturday (8 June). I haven't found them on brfares.com yet but they do show on the Northern website.

Interesting. Can see fares (on Brfares) routed "via Clitheroe" from Blackburn to/from Ribblehead (also from Ramsgreave & Wilpshire, from Langho and from Whalley) but not from Darwen (or Entwistle, or from further away) to/from Ribblehead. From Clitheroe to/from Ribblehead the cheap fare seems to be "not via Blackburn".

 

[Mike99]

Is it Saturday only operation from 8th June onwards, I couldn't find anything on Real Time trains

 

[IanXC]

Is it Saturday only operation from 8th June onwards, I couldn't find anything on Real Time trains

Here you go: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...-0159?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt&toc=NT

 

[Mike99]

Here you go: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...-0159?stp=WVS&show=passenger&order=wtt&toc=NT

Thank you for the link

 

[sandpiper]

First day of the new Yorkshire Dales Explorer service today, (Rochdale to Ribblehead).
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se.../0000-2359?stp=WVSC&show=all&order=wtt&toc=NT
I believe it is also the opening day of a new café at the picturesque Horton-in-Ribblesdale Station too - https://www.facebook.com/FriendsSet...wNPfB1eXUNMGK9WpsFTKAg8CdAWegNiNVnnQuGUHPhLpl

 

[175001]

That'll be fun with the rear unit having to be locked out post Blackburn..

 

[Geeves]

That'll be fun with the rear unit having to be locked out post Blackburn..

You have to wonder if they ran with "special rules" for the day as it seemed to go to time mostly #shrugs. You know as well as I that things mysteriously work when they need to

 

[InkyScrolls]

You have to wonder if they ran with "special rules" for the day as it seemed to go to time mostly #shrugs. You know as well as I that things mysteriously work when they need to

The timings are generous enough to allow regular Long Train Short Platform operation, which isn't particularly time consuming anyway. And beyond Clitheroe normal door operation would apply, with the exception of Horton.

 

[Neptune]

The timings are generous enough to allow regular Long Train Short Platform operation, which isn't particularly time consuming anyway. And beyond Clitheroe normal door operation would apply, with the exception of Horton.

4 car 156 will be fine at HIR. 4 car 158’s have always fit and way back when I worked on the line a pair of 156’s was fine unless the platform has been shortened.

 

[Condor7]

The Rochdale to Ribblehead on a Saturday is obviously designed to attract visitor traffic into the Dales and the Settle & Carlisle line, however Hellifield was originally built to such an extravagant standard with four platforms in the middle of the Yorkshire Dales was its strategic position with the meetings of three main routes, so acted as a change over station rather than a destination in its own right.

That use has diminished a long time ago with only very very limited use as a change over station, but all be it only on a Saturday this opens that possibility just a little bit more. The Friends Of The Settle & Carlisle line will be monitoring this carefully and already on the first day they have found passengers from the stations going south towards Leeds using it as a change over to get to Lancashire towns so it will be interesting to see how that develops in the future hopefully open it up for consideration for other days in the week rather than just for tourists.

 

[John C]

Was a well loaded service today with 156424 leading 156441. 156424 has been named The Yorkshire Dales Explorer and carried a headboard today. https://www.flickr.com/photos/railphotosonline/53776096102/in/dateposted/

 

[yorksrob]

Good to hear that the loadings were good !

 

[InkyScrolls]

4 car 156 will be fine at HIR. 4 car 158’s have always fit and way back when I worked on the line a pair of 156’s was fine unless the platform has been shortened.

Normally yes, but the platform has been temporarily shortened to 70 m while the footbridge is being installed.

The Friends Of The Settle & Carlisle line will be monitoring this carefully and already on the first day they have found passengers from the stations going south towards Leeds using it as a change over to get to Lancashire towns so it will be interesting to see how that develops in the future hopefully open it up for consideration for other days in the week rather than just for tourists.

Interesting! Would the numbers be sufficient to warrant a daily service? I suspect not but we can wait and see.

 

[Neptune]

Normally yes, but the platform has been temporarily shortened to 70 m while the footbridge is being installed.

Of course. I totally forgot about the footbridge being installed.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Of course. I totally forgot about the footbridge being installed.

Easily done!

 

[thealexweb]

That'll be fun with the rear unit having to be locked out post Blackburn..

Is this still a thing? I thought Clitheroe had been extended to take 4x20m car a few years ago.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is this still a thing? I thought Clitheroe had been extended to take 4x20m car a few years ago.

DalesRail was double 156s for years.