I was at Liverpool Lime Street on Saturday and noticed that there was a /2 at the north end of the 8 coach train and a /3 at the south end. As most people are too lazy to walk the length of a train nowadays, the /2 closest to the buffers was packed and the much nicer in the /3 was relatively empty
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What is the difference between the class 350 subclasses?
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Long may it stay that way. I quite like being in the quiet end! It’s the same on the Birminghams, which tend to park very far down platform 3 at new st, though I don’t think they’ll park as far down when they start using p4 in June.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Since the /2s got the 110mph mod they've been diagrammed in a single pool and any can end up anywhere.
They're not as unpopular as you think, families like having a bay of 6 to themselves (and those bays have excellent, almost First Class levels of legroom), and the narrow seats don't matter as much if it's a kid in the middle.
Out of interest do the 350/2s have ANY passive DC equipment fitted that is not activated ? In comparison I am thinking of the various batches of South Eastern 375s, some of which have AC equipment which is not activated, except the 375/6s which have the whole gubbins which of course is never used. It will be recalled that some 350/1s did some trials under their own power from Wembley (or possibly Northampton) to Northam (Southampton) during original acceptance. The trips were routed via Kensington Olympia, Clapham Jcn, Barnes, Chertsey, Byfleet Curve, Basingstoke & Eastleigh and ran in 12 car formation.
MCR247
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Some 350/1s also were also sub-leased to Southern for the West London Line East Croydon to Milton Keynes service during the Thameslink Programme when the 377/5s were late being delivered in 2009(?). It wasn’t the whole subclass of course, only around 5 from what I remember. I appreciate, though, that doesn’t answer your question
childwallblues
Established Member
I was at Stafford recently and a Euston-Crewe service arrived formed of 2 x 350/2.
Trainfan2019
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Definitely still see a variety of 350s on the Stoke On Trent route.
I guess the ultimate mixture (8 carriages) elsewhere though would be seeing the Eurovision branded one coupled to an old stickered London Midland with green seats.
I guess the ultimate mixture (8 carriages) elsewhere though would be seeing the Eurovision branded one coupled to an old stickered London Midland with green seats.
anthony263
Established Member
Dont porterbrook want to fit batteries to zome of the class 350/2's
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
You've said this a lot. Which families have told you this? If it's just a guess, my guess would be that families would appreciate a table, to be honest.
What's given you that idea?
sprinterguy
Established Member
Porterbrook Announces BatteryFLEX In Green Great… · Porterbrook
www.porterbrook.co.uk
Porterbrook makes case for battery/electric bi-mode conversion - Rail UK
Porterbrook makes case for battery/electric bi-mode conversion -railuk.com
Porterbrook makes case for battery/electric bi-mode conversion
October 16, 2018
Rolling stock leasing company Porterbrook is working on a prototype battery/electric bi-mode Class 350/2 to demonstrate the technology’s viability to train operators.
Porterbrook, which owns West Midlands Trains’ entire fleet of Class 350/2s, made the announcement having completed an engineering assessment which makes a compelling case for converting the trains.
Engineers at Porterbrook have run models on a variety of routes, including the Windermere branch line and the West Coast main line, and believe a battery/electric bi-mode, known as a 350/2 Battery/FLEX, could offer various performance benefits.
Following the decision not to electrify the Lakes line last year, the government said it wanted to see ‘alternative-fuel’ trains on the route. Northern subsequently announced its intentions to operate Portberbrook’s Class 769 Flex diesel bi-modes.
Porterbrook said it was now speaking to specialists in battery chemistry to develop a demonstrator unit.
Mary Grant, CEO of Porterbrook, said: “Porterbrook has an unrivalled reputation for innovation. The addition of the BatteryFLEX to our rolling stock portfolio will help train operators further reduce their carbon footprint and emissions, whilst maintaining performance and delivery.
“We believe this green technology could have a huge impact across the country, delivering cleaner travel on our rail network, including on picturesque routes like the Lakes Line.”
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778
Member
Has technology improved since the 379 battery trials?That was over five years ago, now, but is perhaps dependent on the 350/2s being returned by WMT.
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Porterbrook is in discussions with specialists in battery chemistry with a view to creating a demonstrator unit that can showcase this new technology to interested train operators.
The 350/2s are being replaced, right? I still don't fully understand why those ones in particular. If it's a 3+2 seating thing, can't they just refurbish them to 2+2 like the others? Is there a technical difference between the /2s and all the other types that mean they make sense to replace? Or is it just the railway not making sense again?
The 230 trials will prove or disprove that.
The lease on those particular units is understood to be more expensive than the other 350s. It is a lease with Porterbrook, while the other vehicles are leased from Angel Trains. The original idea for the new units was for part of the 730 fleet to be a direct replacement for the types of workings the 350/2s were nominally employed on at the south end of the WCML - eg Tring / Milton Keynes, although that part of the order was amended.
I’ve been beaten to the answer, which is that the /2’s are more expensive to lease. Not just marginally, but massively more expensive than the other subclasses.
Due to the way the world of financing works, it worked out far far cheaper to lease the new units to replace the /2’s. Which is largely why (off topic) the 379s were binned off early from GA in favour of a small subclass of 745 for Stansted.
Indeed, in a way, those of us in WMT land and those in GA land should be thankful for this given the current DfT cutbacks. Terminating the 350/2 and 379 leases will mean that the currently limited pot of money can be spent elsewhere, limiting cutbacks to a minimum. From a rolling stock usage standpoint, it's disgraceful sure.
Yesterday at least one of the Crewe-Eustons was 2x350/2. And not the first time I've seen it.
Not ideal by any means.
My observations of using 350s for about 5 years was that in general if kids were sitting still it was because they were on something hand-held (phone or tablet normally) so a table would have been largely irrelevant (especially if the kids were younger and couldn't comfortably sit at table height), and if they were moving about the parents seemed to prefer being able to see the child within the bay rather than having the kids ducking underneath a table. The majority of journeys on a 350 are going to be not much longer than an hour, so a table isn't as big a decision factor as it would be for somebody looking to use a laptop or making a longer journey. These are very much anecdotal observations, so I make no claim to a full picture.You've said this a lot. Which families have told you this? If it's just a guess, my guess would be that families would appreciate a table, to be honest.
The bays of 6 were also useful on busy but not full trains where 4 strangers could sit down without worrying about rubbing shoulders. And of course in the peak it was an extra 2 seats that people could use.
778
Member
Slightly off topic, but if LNR use any subclass of 350 on any route now, then it does not bode well for when they will have 2 completely different classes in service (350s and 730s). Although it may not be as much of an issue, as all trains will have 2+2 seating.
730s will be based out of a completely different depot on mostly different services to 350s, they’re not going to be diagrammed as a common pool with the 350s like the 350/2s are. I’m not aware of any diagramming issues with the 730s working the Tring services so far.
Mikey C
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The 10:56 is the first super off-peak service from London to Birmingham, so naturally is very popular.
Hence I am on a rammed 4 car low density 350/4.
Hence I am on a rammed 4 car low density 350/4.
LNR need to get a grip on short forms. For so long they were doing really well with short formed services being incredibly rare, but since September they’ve been absolutely awful. Quite a few 350s have been freed up by the 730 introduction, so I haven’t a clue as to why these are still happening. Euston-Birmingham needs at least 8 carriages all day, every day!
778
Member
When the LNR 730s are introduced, that will hopefully be the end of short formed London - Birmingham services, because even more 350s will be freed up.
Are there any plans for London - Birmingham to go back to 3 trains an hour, like it was before covid?
No. It is a 2tph service now and the Birmingham to Coventry corridor is now timed on a 30 minute structure, rather an 20 minutes one.
2tph with 8 car trains rather than 3tph with 4 car trains is the long term basis.
The introduction of 730s allows 350/2s to go off lease. I get the impression that some services are 4-car for operational reasons, rather than actually being short formed against the booked plan.
All Birmingham services are diagrammed as 8 carriage trains, except at the extreme ends of the day where they couple/uncouple at Northampton.
Mikey C
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In this case the service was short formed due to some issue, rather than planned, but awful either way as being the first super off peak train - why incidentally? - a lot of people would have left earlier trains to catch this one
They're isolated AFAIK. They still have the equipment, given that there are still differences in the bogies between the 350/1s and other 350s.
I've been searching for recent photos of 350/1s and it looks like they still have the beams for 3rd rail shoes, but the actual pickup shoes are now absent.
collosus
Member
If Lnwr do get rid of them I think they should ither go to scotrail or gwr