Back in the day, didn't they cover 84 diagrams with 91 units?
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SWR Class 458 to be retained
- Thread starter pompeyfan
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The_Train
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Not sure how I have fallen that far behind, but thanks for the update
Big Jumby 74
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It was 86 from 91 for many years. It initially dropped to 84 so the cab air con mod could be done, can't remember the date, but they had to be taken out in pairs as the suburban ran (on a planned basis) as an eight car railway. Then after that the early plans for the 10 car railway started to be looked at, and with the introduction of the initial 458/5's formed (in basic terms for this discussion) of the additional cars provided from the 460 fleet, and the subsequent stock cascades, there was no need to revert to 86. This had benefits in that there were (at one time) plans to introduce two additional peak time Windsor line services, which were both planned to be 8 car 455, but events/politics (whatever) rendered those plans nul and void, and so 84/91 remained until the end of the SWT era.
The_Train
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Thank you
Andy1673
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Ha ha )) There is no 91 yet, some were scrapped. Now only 83 alive including non-serviceable e.g. 455847, 455848
43096
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82. 5847 went in the bin.
Nicholas Lewis
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Still got great availability given their age and SWR would be dead in the water now without them. SWT retractioning was very prescient.
Goldfish62
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Very much so, although the retractioning wasn't to extend life per se, but to reduce maintenance downtime on the fleet to avoid additional facilities being required at Wimbledon when the 701s were introduced.
43096
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I assume that's a typo for 707s?
DelW
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There are two 1980s fleets which have recently been pressed into services well beyond what they were designed for, yet have managed them reliably. Without the 455s moving onto Reading services SWR would have been in severe trouble, and similarly in Wales the 150s stepped up to work routes up to and including Swansea to Manchester. Without these 40 year old BR warriors covering for the problems of their modern successors, both operators would have been facing near collapse of their timetables.
Goldfish62
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Very true in the case of the 455s (although nowhere near the reliability of Desiros and Electrostars).
The TfW 150s are not in the same category. Severe corrosion and mechanical issues and reliability below the trains that are replacing them. There shouldn't still be any 150s still in service anywhere in the country. A case of needs must.
Nicholas Lewis
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Given SWR had them in run down mode probably not surprising but bet they will be better in the golden spanners this year. Of course they still out perform their expensive replacements.
Agree these are going to fall off a cliff edge in the not too distant future and leave the operators still using them in a precarious position. For all their faults should just knock another 50 CAF 196/7s to tied over the operators whilst DafT decide whether electrification is going to be progressed further or some permutation of Bi-Mode is the way forward for at least routes with electrification available over part of the route.
DelW
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Despite that, they've been almost the only fleet keeping the Marches line operational at times over the past year, although less so now I think. They've also had to cope with trying to keep to a timetable designed for much faster trains.
As a passenger they're far from my favourite trains (even less favourite if I'd encountered one on a route as long as that), but I am impressed by the way they've managed to keep on working, old tech and all. There again, maybe its because they're old and therefore simple tech that they can be kept going so long.
Back towards the topic, I suspect our informative correspondent Warren T Manager has a hand in keeping the 455s alive for as long as they may be needed. Though I doubt even he knows how long it'll be before the 458/4s begin to help out, let alone the 701s.
norbitonflyer
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Not necessarily. As far as I am aware those expensive replacements have only had one failure in traffic so far. (admittedly the numerator of the "MTIN" ratio is also quite small)
Goldfish62
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Indeed. The 707s when they were in squadron service with SWR far out stripped the 455s in terms of performance, as indeed do the 450s and 444s. The 458s remain SWR's most unreliable train.
SEtrains
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I know this may be a bit too early to ask but does anyone know what 458/5 is going up to Widnes next?
Snow1964
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I am guessing that 455s will gradually reach mileage limits where expensive overhauls are needed. At which point their numbers will diminish further (aren't 455s down to about 80 of 91 as usuable).
Probably lot cheaper to use the 458/4s than sanction expensive work on 455s until the 701s finally appear in regular service (whenever that may be).
The big question is will there simply be 458/4s taking over the existing 458 diagrams, shortening trains from 10car to 8car over next few months as more are converted, or will some allow more 455s to be taken out of service.
Goldfish62
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Of course, assuming that unit 533 can be reactivated SWR will still have 8 458/5 units once the conversion programme is complete. That I guess would allow still allow 3 10 car diagrams.
SWR obviously have a better idea than any of us where they can be most effectively used.
I read either here or on another thread that, bizarrely, 458/4s can't be used on Reading services so that's yet another constraint to add into the mix.
I think the only certain thing is that as the year progresses capacity on the SWR network will be reduced, which is a bit depressing given that other TOCs are adding capacity.
The failure rate of the 150s is considerably better than the 197s and the 231s. Second most reliable fleet behind the 158s. There are reasons why they are not suitable for long distance runs but reliability is not one of them.
Goldfish62
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Miles between failures for latest comparative period, Period 6 23-24 (source: Modern Railways):
Class 150: 6,516
Class 158: 6,202
Class 197: 6,006
Class 231: 4,075
With the 197 and 231 showing an improving trend as you'd expect with new trains.
Anyway, back to SWR...
WarrenTManager
Member
8533 is powered up and can move on its own now. Last parts are due in mid-May. There might be some eye rolling but some of the bits had to be reverse engineered or ID’d. Some didn’t even have Alstom DTR numbers.
which parts are missing?
Warrior2852
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Haven't been keeping much focus on this but was mildly surprised to see a number of single carriages from these sitting in sidings just north of Stoke on Trent this morning!
RealTrains07
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Yeah I have also seen that. Its the ex 460 coaches that used to be the 5th carriage in the /4 sets
43096
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No. The planned 458/4 conversions are from 458501-528 and they lose their ex-460 vehicle to revert to their old 458/0 formations.
swt_passenger
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The intention was that the extra 6 units 531-536, that consisted entirely of ex-460 vehicles would definitely go off lease. I think a couple of the ex 458s are not intended to have a long term future either, as the original announcement was that only 28 would be kept, and that’s how the SWR contract has subsequently been amended.
If the 701 saga continues, and given that the 455s are fast aging, presumably the remaining 458s could be put through the process if necessary?
swt_passenger
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I suppose anything is possible if someone pays. Have none been scrapped though?
southern442
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More likely will be that the extras continue running in their current formation in a similar way to the last few 707s knocking around.