But I'm sure they still require the ability to run under line of sight rules in order to have those crossings. And also (unless plans have changed since I last looked) line of sight rules will also apply between Queen Street and the Bay (I don't know why).
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TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains
- Thread starter Bob Price
- Start date
But I'm sure they still require the ability to run under line of sight rules in order to have those crossings. And also (unless plans have changed since I last looked) line of sight rules will also apply between Queen Street and the Bay (I don't know why).
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R
RailUK Forums
Yes, they definitely need line-of-sight rules to have a crossing at street level controlled only by traffic lights. My point about "mixed traffic" was that when people hear the phrase "street running" they often assume that the trams will be mixing with other traffic, but tramway planners try to avoid this as much as possible because it means that trams get held up by motor traffic.
With regard to the Bay branch conversion to line-of-sight it's because a) it saves a lot of money on signalling and b) it allows the line to easily accommodate uncontrolled pedestrian crossings, at least three of which are planned. it's long been a local council objective to make Butetown less isolated by providing more routes for pedestrians to cross the railway line, and this helps achieve that
generalnerd
Member
I also assume it will allow a higher frequency along the line?
Bob Price
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I am not saying this isn't happening but looking at the branch and how high up it is from the Bute Street side, I can't see where there would be crossings. This embankment has always been a barrier hence talk about Pods, trams at street level and cable cars running down there. If you know where, I would love to know. It's not like I'm filming a video about it which is being edited at the moment
Nell01joe
New Member
398025 was on test near Asfordby this afternoon (05/03/25)
Avowedsevern
Member
Last information I read implied that journey times will barely be reduced on core valley lines.
Hi Bob - I'm taking my information from the planning application drawings, which you can find on the Cardiff Council planning portal. Here's a screengrab from one one of them, showing a crossing at the north end of the new Cardiff Bay island platform, and another crossing with a ramp and stairs that will cross near Glanhonwy Close and South Loudoun Place. The drawing for Butetown shows a crossing at the north end, aligning with Vellacott Close.
Maybe a bit - but the double-tracking will be the big difference. In practice, frequency along the line will be limited by junction capacity at Queen Street.
Bob Price
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Brilliant, thank you for sharing these.
Bob Price
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They have been out a few times this week. Looks like they are trying to get the milage in them in order to get them into service asap. They need them on the Cardiff Bay to Pontypridd services to replace the 150's before they start hitting their C6 exams. If the rumour of runs to STJ are true plus the runs at Old Dalby, there is a possible three pronged attack taking place.
Looks like a 398 is due to run to Merthyr tonight https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...2025-03-08/0000-2359?stp=S&show=all&order=wtt
Bob Price
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A video has appeared on YouTube showing g the 398's testing at Queen's st. I think this may have been taken from the multi storey car park
And another showing one of the drags up to Old Dalby with the Rail Adventure 43's
And another showing one of the drags up to Old Dalby with the Rail Adventure 43's
Nice! They
They really are very unusual units - like a tram on the outside, but with a long-distance interior.
CapitalStar378
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And more 1,000,000 watt lightbulbs it seems. Why is this now a thing on new trains from Stadler and CAF?
56xx
Member
Apart from one essential!!!
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
So very over hashed by now
Peter Sarf
Established Member
But not if you tend to need oneSo very over hashed by now
.Cardiff123
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Most toilets on trains on the Valley lines are used for fare evasion or having a smoke rather than by people actually needing the toilet. I've literally seen people get on at one station, head straight for the toilet, and stay there until a few stops later and then get off, just to avoid a ticket inspection.But not if you tend to need one
Avowedsevern
Member
Have literally used the toilets many times for their intended purpose. How on earth can you claim that most are used for smoking or fare evasion? Got any sources to back that up other than your feelings?
Cardiff123
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Feelings? First hand experience of seeing people do exactly that on the Cardiff Valley lines, eg. Like I said, get on at an unstaffed station, and stay in there until they get off at another unstaffed station.
TT-ONR-NRN
Veteran Member
What difference does this dispute make anyway? It won’t give the units toilets. They don’t have toilets, full stop. Whether or not we agree with TfW that it’s the right decision is irrelevant, as there will not be toilets magicked onto these units by way of rehashing the same old complaints a hundred times over on this forum. They don’t have toilets. To some of us, that’s a shame. That’s literally all there is to be said about it.
Dai Corner
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I've seen it happen too. I suppose I should have told the guard I was concerned for the welfare of the person who had been in the toilet for an excessive time?
43096
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I think it’s a bit much to expect a restaurant car!So very over hashed by now
WelshBluebird
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Whilst the toilets on the trains question has been done to death, I do think there's an element of accountability needed for TfW in that they said they'd be building toilets at lots more stations and certainly I've seen no evidence of that yet. I've asked in the South Wales Metro infrastructure topic about this too, but my view is that if the promised toilets don't appear then TfW need to be pressured into providing answers and solutions, which may circle back to the trains if they won't build the promised station toilets.
If you are suggesting that fully accessible toilets might be retrofitted into a tram style body then I would think again. Reengineering them for the additional weight, including balancing the unit out, installing pumping facilities at Taffs Well, loss of capacity, reduced performance and increased energy cost, etc etc. it ain’t going to happen.
WelshBluebird
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I'm not suggesting it will happen, but I am saying that if they don't build the station toilets they promised then people like myself who had accepted the situation for what it is may well be back shouting about it.
The_Train
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What is the longest journey time one could expect to do on a 398 (if they ever come into service 
)?
)?56xx
Member
A three sided retaining wall has been constructed at the southern end of platform 2 in Merthyr Vale. About 3 metres square with the open side facing the platform. So a possible site for a toilet.
Pontypridd would certainly need an additional toilet on platform 3. Abercynon would be a good location with one island platform.
With the current service pattern of Aberdare - Merthyr Tydfil and return and Cardiff Central - Treherbert and return the Aberdare and Merthyr Tydfil runs are 1 hour and 5 minutes northbound depending on whether leaving Central or Queen Street.What is the longest journey time one could expect to do on a 398 (if they ever come into service
chargesmith
Member
End to end is just over an hour. But if you were genuinely caught short you'd just disembark at a station with a loo and then get the next train.What is the longest journey time one could expect to do on a 398 (if they ever come into service
If the toilet issue really does prove to be an issue with the majority of commuters (I don't think it will) them the future plans should be to not purchase more 398s and move those onto Cardiff Cross rail when that happens and then buy more FLIRTs for the longer services to the Heads of the Valleys. Whether we can have the same capacity and frequency with FLIRTs I significantly doubt, and I think those are the real issues that need solving, not toilets on trains. People regularly make road journeys over 4 hours without a comfort break (even though they probably should stop) so don't see how the majority of people will have an issue.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
But in the UK we do make provisions for minorities.
We could save money by ignoring the needs of disabled travellers BUT we do not ignore them and we should not.
I wonder how many people have a weak bladder ?.
Should they avoid public transport ?.
Since toilets on These train services have been there for a while then what progress is being made by REMOVING them ?.
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