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TfW class 398 Stadler Citylink tram trains

TT-ONR-NRN

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But in the UK we do make provisions for minorities.
We could save money by ignoring the needs of disabled travellers BUT we do not ignore them and we should not.
I wonder how many people have a weak bladder ?.
Should they avoid public transport ?.

Since toilets on These train services have been there for a while then what progress is being made by REMOVING them ?.
Do you use this line often? Your location is shown as Croydon, yet you have persistently made a bit of a song and a dance about the lack of toilets on this fairly short South Wales commuter route. :E Genuine question.
 
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RailUK Forums

507 001

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FWIW, the longest journey you could do on Manchester Metrolink without a toilet would be from East Didsbury to Rochdale Town Centre at roughly 1hr 20.

There are no public toilets at any of our stations, apart from those that may be in the vicinity of some of the city centre ones, and there is no great outcry at the lack of toilets.

I highly doubt that the Stadler Tram-Train platform has any sort of provision for toilet facilities anyway.
 

Cardiff123

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But in the UK we do make provisions for minorities.
We could save money by ignoring the needs of disabled travellers BUT we do not ignore them and we should not.
I wonder how many people have a weak bladder ?.
Should they avoid public transport ?.

Since toilets on These train services have been there for a while then what progress is being made by REMOVING them ?.
Bus journeys from the east of Cardiff from St Mellons to the city centre are at least 1 hour. Should all Cardiff buses have toilets on board as well?
 

Peter Sarf

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Do you use this line often? Your location is shown as Croydon, yet you have persistently made a bit of a song and a dance about the lack of toilets on this fairly short South Wales commuter route. :E Genuine question.
I do use the lines. I visit Cardiff often enough (family there). My main use is to Pontypridd but also beyond.

But in any case I think I am allowed to make a point for the people an issue affects.
It is the same for disabled provision - you do not have to use a line or even have a disability to have an opinion/aspiration.

For toilet provision we get the same problem on routes in London of course.
I agree it is a balance between provision for a minority and cost (space, infrastructure and money).

I would also argue over 45 - 60 minutes is not a short commuter route btw.

BUT - this is getting like the seating issues on other trains.
Better is it is in a separate thread because this is not exclusive to 398s or any other Stadler "tram" or any other similar train.
 

Thunderer

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I think the real fun will begin on the 398’s on Rugby International days :D hundreds upon hundreds of people heading back up the Valleys with ten pints inside them and no toilets - what could possibly go wrong? :s Those units will become mobile bus shelters swimming in urine, vomit etc :lol:
 

chargesmith

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South Wales
But in the UK we do make provisions for minorities.
We could save money by ignoring the needs of disabled travellers BUT we do not ignore them and we should not.
I wonder how many people have a weak bladder ?.
Should they avoid public transport ?.

Since toilets on These train services have been there for a while then what progress is being made by REMOVING them ?.
Given all metro systems around the UK (London Underground, Manchester Metro and even some mainline London services) don't have toilets on board I would think a legal challenge would have been made a long time ago if people were actively being discriminated against.

Providing the station provision is there and well maintained everyone is catered for, especially with the increased service frequency. I don't mind getting off the use the loo if the next train is in 5 minutes but would mind if it was 30 minutes

And if you honestly can't go 20 minutes without needing the loo, not having them onboard trains is going to be the least of your problems independence wise given how few public toilets there are in society in general these days.

The progress is the increased space onboard for everyone and the related improvements in capacity and frequency that I doubt you could get with traditional trains.

But ultimately this is a done deal now and people just need to move on rather than focusing on one area where things have gone backwards when it's going forward in lots of other areas. It's not going to change now the investment has been made, the time to engage with TfW on the matter has long gone.
 

craigybagel

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I think the real fun will begin on the 398’s on Rugby International days :D hundreds upon hundreds of people heading back up the Valleys with ten pints inside them and no toilets - what could possibly go wrong? :s Those units will become mobile bus shelters swimming in urine, vomit etc :lol:
I'm sure they'll cope as well as the trains provided for Twickenham (455s, no toilets), the Aviva Stadium (DART, no toilets), Murrayfield (Edinburgh Trams, no toilets), Stade de France (Paris Metro and RER - no toilets at all on the former and on most services on the latter) and the Stadio Olimpico (no trains at all) do.
 

chargesmith

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I think the real fun will begin on the 398’s on Rugby International days :D hundreds upon hundreds of people heading back up the Valleys with ten pints inside them and no toilets - what could possibly go wrong? :s Those units will become mobile bus shelters swimming in urine, vomit etc :lol:
The first time someone does that, they are going to made a huge example of by TFW and BTP. Behaviour like that is illegal under the Public Order Act and the Sexual Offences Act and there's CCTV all over the train so would be very easy to prove. A few court cases later and no-one else will be willing to take the risk.
 

Caaardiff

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I think the real fun will begin on the 398’s on Rugby International days :D hundreds upon hundreds of people heading back up the Valleys with ten pints inside them and no toilets - what could possibly go wrong? :s Those units will become mobile bus shelters swimming in urine, vomit etc :lol:

In the same way that anyone getting the last bus or getting a 30-60 minute taxi to the Valleys after a night out, grown adults should be able make an informed decision to go to the toilet at the station or last bar they visit before going home.

TFW just need to make clear that the message gets out there about the changes, as new tram networks would never have had toilet provision, this is a change to what is currently offered.
 

Avowedsevern

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People who don’t believe that Valleys folk won’t be urinating on these trams on match day clearly have no experience with the area or with the social issues pertaining to its peoples. Be interesting to go back over this thread in a few years time.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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People who don’t believe that Valleys folk won’t be urinating on these trams on match day clearly have no experience with the area or with the social issues pertaining to its peoples. Be interesting to go back over this thread in a few years time.
Yes, the Valleys lot after a night out are absolutely horrendous to share a train with, I can say from experience living in Cardiff for three years.
 

Mag_seven

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Can we drop the discussion about toilets and associated issues and stick to discussing the actual units themselves please.
 

StripeyNick

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MikePJ

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TfW have put out another of their PR interviews with James Price (the CEO). Relevant to this thread is that he says that the 398s are still waiting on regulatory approval. and talks about them being introduced at the end of this year or the beginning of 2026.
 

46026

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Friday 11th April 2025
Managed to get the following numbers from the new footbridge at Taff Wells
398003/004/008/10/019
These were in amongst the 15 x 398s nearest the station, also saw from the train 1 stabled on other side of depot.
Any help with missing numbers gratefully recieved, many thanks
 

1D54

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Is there nowhere else to go and view these units at Taffs Well like there is with the stuff at Barry?
 

800001

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Is there nowhere else to go and view these units at Taffs Well like there is with the stuff at Barry?
Footbridge on station, road bridge at Cardiff end of station, and a public footpath goes all the way around, but it’s a case of looking through gaps in bushes etc to see what you can get.

If you are tall enough you can also put camera above fence that runs alongside depot (station side) and get some numbers through the fence.
 

1D54

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Heading down there in the next few weeks so useful to know. Thank you.
 
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Does anyone know what issue the ORR has with the 398s? I wonder if this has the potential to derail the whole project?
 

MikePJ

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Does anyone know what issue the ORR has with the 398s? I wonder if this has the potential to derail the whole project?
No. The only technical issue that has been mentioned on here previously was wheel profiles, but that wasn't from an official source.
 

800001

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Does anyone know what issue the ORR has with the 398s? I wonder if this has the potential to derail the whole project?
Why would it derail the whole project?

I think access to the tracks has delayed testing, hence why several units have been sent to the Old Dalby test tracks.

Maybe had some mods done to units and now validating etc
 
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Why would it derail the whole project?

I think access to the tracks has delayed testing, hence why several units have been sent to the Old Dalby test tracks.

Maybe had some mods done to units and now validating etc
I don't know which is why I was asking, I was wondering if there could be something major in the design or if it's just minor adjustments.
 

MikePJ

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Why would it derail the whole project?

I think access to the tracks has delayed testing, hence why several units have been sent to the Old Dalby test tracks.

Maybe had some mods done to units and now validating etc
I did find in the TfW board minutes from December that "Further work is required to secure the necessary access to support the Class 398 testing and commissioning process, with the issue escalated to Amey Infrastructure Wales senior leadership". Unfortunately none of the 2025 minutes have been posted online yet so we don't know if there was any update to that this year.
 

50031

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Well it looks like a 398 (or 2) has finally escaped the depot in daytime. According to realtimetrains.co.uk , the 3Q00/3Q01 Taffs Well Depot - Treherbert & return working ran this morning, and kept to the schedule
 

50031

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28 Aug 2013
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Indeed it has. 398005 at Taffs Well this lunchtime. Video will follow
Thank you Bob. As someone who's local station used to be Treforest, I will soon be doing my own filming. Wanted to wait until the 398s started daytime testing so I can get all 3 trains in 1 day, before the 150s finish
 

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