“Do not stand in the aisles!”

TT-ONR-NRN

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I am sat on 802212 forming the 1215 from Leeds (ex Newcastle) to Liverpool, and the train manager has added something rather odd to his announcement.

“Please take a seat and do not stand in the aisles or vestibules. We go through many tunnels so it becomes a safety issue. Please make sure you remain seated.”

I’ve never heard this on an announcement before - forbidding standing. The train is well loaded but not busy, probably two thirds full.

I wonder why this TransPennine Express guard has made such an announcement - perhaps there have been recent incidents?
 
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randyrippley

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I can't answer your question, but it does seem to me that IF the train had been full and IF a standing passenger who could not get a seat was injured due to a fall or similar, then the guard has just admitted liability on behalf of TPE
 

driverd

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Sounds like a guard just making up their own rules. Nothing I've ever heard of - perhaps to ease their passage through the train, did they do any revenue duties?
 

AlterEgo

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I can't answer your question, but it does seem to me that IF the train had been full and IF a standing passenger who could not get a seat was injured due to a fall or similar, then the guard has just admitted liability on behalf of TPE
How do you come to that conclusion?
 

Darandio

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I can't answer your question, but it does seem to me that IF the train had been full and IF a standing passenger who could not get a seat was injured due to a fall or similar, then the guard has just admitted liability on behalf of TPE

That's a weird take on it considering tunnels were specifically mentioned. It gets dark in a tunnel but the lights stay on and train movement is the same as when it isn't in a tunnel.

Maybe they didn't want to trip over someone but momentarily forgot that you can still see fine on a train in a tunnel.....
 

Mcr Warrior

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Last time I heard a "Do not stand in the aisles" shout was when on the upper deck of a double-decker bus. :rolleyes:
 

randyrippley

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How do you come to that conclusion?
Because the guard has just stated that standing is unsafe. So if a passenger is injured while standing due to lack of seats (i.e. forced to stand due to inadequate seating provision), that injury could be deemed to be due to known unsafe conditions on the train - with the company liable
In fact now the announcement has been made, almost any injury while standing in a moving train could be deemed the company's fault
 

AlterEgo

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Because the guard has just stated that standing is unsafe. So if a passenger is injured while standing due to lack of seats (i.e. forced to stand due to inadequate seating provision), that injury could be deemed to be due to known unsafe conditions on the train - with the company liable
In fact now the announcement has been made, almost any injury while standing in a moving train could be deemed the company's fault
By the same logic an announcement asking people to take care in inclement weather or to be mindful of the yellow line is also some admission of liability.
 

randyrippley

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By the same logic an announcement asking people to take care in inclement weather or to be mindful of the yellow line is also some admission of liability.
In the case of the yellow line, only if the platforms were so crowded that it was impossible to stay behind the line
In the inclement weather case, only if the platforms were left unsalted, unswept of snow, or drains blocked so allowing floods
 

6Gman

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I am sat on 802212 forming the 1215 from Leeds (ex Newcastle) to Liverpool, and the train manager has added something rather odd to his announcement.

“Please take a seat and do not stand in the aisles or vestibules. We go through many tunnels so it becomes a safety issue. Please make sure you remain seated.”

I’ve never heard this on an announcement before - forbidding standing. The train is well loaded but not busy, probably two thirds full.

I wonder why this TransPennine Express guard has made such an announcement - perhaps there have been recent incidents?
I've experienced Train Managers who have encouraged passengers to take a seat rather than stand, which makes some sense.

BUT the safety issue in tunnels line is bizarre! Does he think the changes in air pressure are going to cause spontaneous implosion or something? Very odd.

"Please do not head toward a toilet in the next few minutes. We are approaching a tunnel and who knows what might happen! Woooh!"
 

PupCuff

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Competition to see how ridiculous an announcement the crew can make before someone questions it?


A minority of staff unfortunately choose to make up spurious safety issues, as though claiming some tenuous link to safety is a free pass to do what they want. Standing on trains, whether you're going through a tunnel or not, is acceptably safe thanks to the strict - and, like, actual - safety considerations made when operating the network and building the trains.

Frustratingly, it's also these types who give actual experienced and qualified Health and Safety practitioners a bad name.
 

bramling

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My money's on that he was trying to discourage people from standing in order to make it easier for himself to pass through the train.
 
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Taunton

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“Please take a seat and do not stand in the aisles or vestibules. We go through many tunnels so it becomes a safety issue. Please make sure you remain seated.”
This seems somewhat at variance with those London/South East operators who in recent times have been cheerfully taking seats out to allow more standing passengers.

They go through tunnels as well !
 

Ant1966

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Lets hope the TPE TM never has to use a tube train in the rush hour. He'll have a melt down. So many people standing. So much tunnel.
 

py_megapixel

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I'm sure I heard someone a few months ago mention a railway down in London somewhere which is famous both for the huge volumes of (mostly standing) commuters it's set up to carry and for the fact that a decent chunk of its route runs through a network of tunnels... I think it's fairly obscure though so I doubt anyone considers it as a serious operation :D

I hear there's an extension to one of its lines due to open next week, involving even more tunnels. However will they cope? ;)
 

the sniper

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Must be a new starter! Back in my day, we had a trains full of passengers, absolutely packed, so they had to stand... Anyone remember the "peak" trains of yore... Those were the days! #bringbackATOC :lol:
 

yorkie

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Lets hope the TPE TM never has to use a tube train in the rush hour. He'll have a melt down. So many people standing. So much tunnel.
TPE is often like this. OK, less often these days but I was on a TPE train with many standees a few weeks ago

I am sat on 802212 forming the 1215 from Leeds (ex Newcastle) to Liverpool, and the train manager has added something rather odd to his announcement.

“Please take a seat and do not stand in the aisles or vestibules. We go through many tunnels so it becomes a safety issue. Please make sure you remain seated.”

I’ve never heard this on an announcement before - forbidding standing. The train is well loaded but not busy, probably two thirds full.

I wonder why this TransPennine Express guard has made such an announcement - perhaps there have been recent incidents?
Did you get the name? I know a few TPE Guards, so could enquire as to what's going on; send me a conversation message if you did.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Did you get the name? I know a few TPE Guards, so could enquire as to what's going on; send me a conversation message if you did.
I didn't hear the name, sorry, but it was today's 9M22 1045 NCL - LIV if that helps, and the announcement was made just after Leeds. I found it rather amusing.
 

mike57

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Having used this route for many years there some pretty bad patches of track between Leeds and Manchester, not sure how the 800's ride, but certainly been bumped around on 185s. Going west the section between Dewsbury and Deighton is quite rough, and coming east the entrance to the Standedge tunnel and just west of Mirfield are the worst. The Standedge tunnel entrance has been fettled a bit, I saw a catering trolley upset about 6 years ago, fortunately no harm done, it did not go right over, was just left leaning against a luggage rack.
 

dk1

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How very strange. Takes all sorts I suppose. I’ve worked with several who go over the top whether it be an authoritarian thing or the fact they are just a few sandwiches short. I just want to press the mute button.
 

Spartacus

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I'd be pointing it out to TPE on Twitter, they do seem pretty good at looking at stuff. Certainly won't want a guard making up BS like this.
 

43066

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How very strange. Takes all sorts I suppose. I’ve worked with several who go over the top whether it be an authoritarian thing or the fact they are just a few sandwiches short. I just want to press the mute button.

Same here. Thankfully it’s becoming less of an issue now but I’ve heard some very inappropriate announcements indeed over the last few months.

I'd be pointing it out to TPE on Twitter, they do seem pretty good at looking at stuff. Certainly won't want a guard making up BS like this.

Agreed. It’s unprofessional for a guard to be making up utter nonsense like this which overall makes the railway seem hostile to passengers!
 

James James

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That's a weird take on it considering tunnels were specifically mentioned. It gets dark in a tunnel but the lights stay on and train movement is the same as when it isn't in a tunnel.

Maybe they didn't want to trip over someone but momentarily forgot that you can still see fine on a train in a tunnel.....
Tunnels are an interesting topic though - over in Switzerland, passengers do get kicked out of trains going through the Gotthard base tunnel if the train is too busy. I don't think they ban standing passengers per se, but they do seem to try to make sure the aisles are clear - or at least clear enough for staff to be able to walk through the train. (This is likely to become a much less frequent occurrence now that it's possible to run double-deckers along the entire domestic part of the Gotthard route.)

Can't remember any similarly long tunnels wholly inside the UK though :D.
 

Bletchleyite

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Tunnels are an interesting topic though - over in Switzerland, passengers do get kicked out of trains going through the Gotthard base tunnel if the train is too busy. I don't think they ban standing passengers per se, but they do seem to try to make sure the aisles are clear - or at least clear enough for staff to be able to walk through the train. (This is likely to become a much less frequent occurrence now that it's possible to run double-deckers along the entire domestic part of the Gotthard route.)

Can't remember any similarly long tunnels wholly inside the UK though :D.

The GBT is more like the Channel Tunnel than Standege, though, and the Channel Tunnel of course has compulsory reservations.
 

Kite159

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What would that guard be like on an overcrowded GWR service from Cardiff towards Bristol when it goes via the Severn Tunnel.

Or even an overcrowded Manchester bound EMR service from Sheffield.

Overcrowded due to the previous service getting cancelled and it being a 2 coach unit instead of the booked 5 coach (or a 5 coach 800 instead of a pair)
 

LSWR Cavalier

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I think perhaps he particularly means standing in the connection between carriages, that can be exciting/noisy/frightening.

I often prefer to stand with a bit of space, rather than to sit right next to a stranger.
 

Western Lord

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"Don't stand in the aisles because we're going through a tunnel"! Let's hope this guy doesn't get a job on the London Undergorund.
 

al78

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By the same logic an announcement asking people to take care in inclement weather or to be mindful of the yellow line is also some admission of liability.
No it couldn't. Inclement weather is an act of nature, not human caused. Inadequate seating on a train or only having standing room that could be deemed unsafe could be a human failing. Same reason why the highland council are not liable for accidents on the Scottish mountains, because mountains are a part of the natural world, not a construction by the local authority, so hikers are expected to take their own risk assessment and mitigation when walking/climbing, unless a man made construction in the mountains was unsafe and did cause or contribute to an incident.

The announcement here does sound very odd. I fail to see why standing on a moving train in a tunnel is any more risky than standing on a moving train outside a tunnel.
 

dk1

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I think perhaps he particularly means standing in the connection between carriages, that can be exciting/noisy/frightening.

I often prefer to stand with a bit of space, rather than to sit right next to a stranger.
Always makes me laugh when you see those not used to rail travel make walking through a vestibule look a bit of an ordeal. You hardly know they are there on newer trains compared to an HST rocking across the Berks & Hants.
 

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