150's. They belong in the cess pool of history.

[yorksrob]

Ok, I was probably a bit ranty last night, however it does strike me that with something like a 321 of a similar vintage and bodywork, the lay out is so much better than Northerns 150's.

They're also twice as long. The other problem with the 150's is that they're just not big enough. Compare them to the far superior 158's which are real people shifters.

If the 150's are to stick around they need to be formed into 3 carriage units.

 

[JonathanH]

If the 150's are to stick around they need to be formed into 3 carriage units.

On the west side they often now run round as pairs.

 

[Magdalia]

it does strike me that with something like a 321 of a similar vintage and bodywork, the lay out is so much better than Northerns 150's.

When class 150/1s were new the interior was similar to the original interior of the second build of class 317s.

Class 150/1s were used on some long distance workings for example Birmingham-Cambridge and Sheffield-Ipswich.

Subsequent interior refurbishments make the comparison less valid. I have no idea what class 150s are like now though I do remember these, and not with affection.

150213/217/227/229/231/235/237/255/257 (later 245 too) transferred to Norwich in the early 90s as Anglia became a TOU and where swapped back for 156s in the early 2000s

I particularly remember them being hideously slow and noisy on the climb out of Cromer.

Class 156s were a significant improvement, and they are the more relevant comparison with class 321s.

 

[Whistler40145]

Agree. Worst train ever made.

Give me a 142/144 over a 150 any day of the week.

I'd rather have a 156 over a 142/144, far more comfortable a ride

 

[Pinus contorta]

When class 150/1s were new the interior was similar to the original interior of the second build of class 317s.

Class 150/1s were used on some long distance workings for example Birmingham-Cambridge and Sheffield-Ipswich.

Subsequent interior refurbishments make the comparison less valid. I have no idea what class 150s are like now though I do remember these, and not with affection.



I particularly remember them being hideously slow and noisy on the climb out of Cromer.

Class 156s were a significant improvement, and they are the more relevant comparison with class 321s.

i think I had a good long journey on a 150/1 Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth around 1990 and that was enough to put me off them for several years. Sore Knees no view out of the window slow up the hills couldn't hear anyone talking etc. Prior to that I thought they were okay.

I remember using the 150/2 regularly on line to Cromer when I moved there around 2000 and wondering why they had turned up there. Was it some sort of punishment for the people of Norfolk? Everyone used to park their luggage on the 3 seats, significantly reducing the seating capacity. They seemed a bit 'tired' even then.

But in context of the early years of the privatisation I suppose the managed decline of such routes (and possible closure ) their cheapness was overlooked and was much appreciated.

 

[bramling]

It's about time these scrap-heaps, that have no beneficial points, were sent to the scrap yard.

I used to have this view, however I have significantly warmed to them over the last few years. This is largely because the GWR and TFW units have a decent interior layout, which addresses what was my biggest issue. Prior to that the only decent interior in my view was the ex FNW 150/1s with the facing layout.

I don’t have any other issues with them - they are pretty reliable and indeed have proved themselves to be a bedrock during bad times. They have saved the day recently on both GWR and TFW.

Quite happy for 150s to continue ad infinitum so long as the interior layout is decent, and preferably with longer formations than a 2-car. One does wonder just how long they will continue to serve the Cornish branches.

 

[dk1]

I particularly remember them being hideously slow and noisy on the climb out of Cromer.

Class 156s were a significant improvement, and they are the more relevant comparison with class 321s.

They weren’t any slower than a 153/156/170 climbing out of Cromer.

 

[Geeves]

Seeing as no one wants to build Northern any new trains, expect to see them turned into Hybrids for another 25 years of work.

 

[fgwrich]

The GWR ones are fine and have been refurbished very well, other than a few seats with not much leg room. Except the acquired examples which still have 3x2 seats. It’s down to the TOC and how well l they were refurbished.

We don’t get them round here anymore, but would rather get on one of those with opening windows that a 158, Turbo or HST with knackered aircon.

They’re better than the alternative. Nothing as things stand. No available replacements. They serve a good purpose on many of the branch lines they can be found working

I don’t have any other issues with them - they are pretty reliable and indeed have proved themselves to be a bedrock during bad times. They have saved the day recently on both GWR and TFW.

Quite happy for 150s to continue ad infinitum so long as the interior layout is decent, and preferably with longer formations than a 2-car. One does wonder just how long they will continue to serve the Cornish branches.

Exactly these points. The Western units are fine and much better suited for the D&C branches than say a Turbo or 158. They’ve also as mentioned managed to get GWR out of a hole over the last few years, covering everything from branch line and Devon metro services, Devon and Cornwall mainline services to deputising for IETs even as far as Reading. Jack of all trades, and solid, reliable units.

Their Northern brethren may be the poorer relation, but the Western units are fine for a few more years yet (until something suitable is invented to replace them).

 

[RuddA]

Exactly these points. The Western units are fine and much better suited for the D&C branches than say a Turbo or 158. They’ve also as mentioned managed to get GWR out of a hole over the last few years, covering everything from branch line and Devon metro services, Devon and Cornwall mainline services to deputising for IETs even as far as Reading. Jack of all trades, and solid, reliable units.

Their Northern brethren may be the poorer relation, but the Western units are fine for a few more years yet (until something suitable is invented to replace them).

Never would have guessed those interior shots were of a 150.

 

[bramling]

Never would have guessed those interior shots were of a 150.

Replace the lighting with something more like the 317/6 refurbishment, and also replace the saloon to cab door and they would instantly look a lot more modern. I say replace the internal cab door as visually that just shouts 1970s to me!

 

[yorksrob]

I used to have this view, however I have significantly warmed to them over the last few years. This is largely because the GWR and TFW units have a decent interior layout, which addresses what was my biggest issue. Prior to that the only decent interior in my view was the ex FNW 150/1s with the facing layout.

I don’t have any other issues with them - they are pretty reliable and indeed have proved themselves to be a bedrock during bad times. They have saved the day recently on both GWR and TFW.

Quite happy for 150s to continue ad infinitum so long as the interior layout is decent, and preferably with longer formations than a 2-car. One does wonder just how long they will continue to serve the Cornish branches.

Yes, the Great Western ones are ok.

 

[bramling]

Yes, the Great Western ones are ok.

The TFW units in particular have been transformed. I was very pleasantly surprised when on holiday in Barry last year to find the units were pretty much unrecognisable inside compared to my previous visit to Wales. Shows it *is* possible to polish a turd!

 

[DaventryRabbit]

They’re better than the alternative. Nothing as things stand. No available replacements. They serve a good purpose on many of the branch lines they can be found working

Agreed. And I for one would like to see at least one preserved.

 

[RailWonderer]

Ok, I was probably a bit ranty last night, however it does strike me that with something like a 321 of a similar vintage and bodywork, the lay out is so much better than Northerns 150's.

They were loud and rattling and horrible to use at higher speeds. The seat pitch was unnatural and legroom was terrible and few to no airline seats and poor window alignment. I couldn't wait to see the back of them. Terrible trains. At least 150s never go above 75mph.

Shorter journeys on the TfW and GWR 150s are quite pleasant, only Northern has the terrible cramped layout. On any journeys longer than 20 minutes these are horrid to use and despite being 5.9 1/2 I have to sit diagonally in the seat. 150s I agree have well outstayed their welcome and are in need of replacement but I think some will be replaced by cascades rather than new builds. We still have TfW 158s and 175s that will need rehoming.

 

[yorksrob]

They were loud and rattling and horrible to use at higher speeds. The seat pitch was unnatural and legroom was terrible and few to no airline seats and poor window alignment. I couldn't wait to see the back of them. Terrible trains. At least 150s never go above 75mph.

I found them perfectly good for Leeds - Donny.

The best thing being that they didn't have the abysmal 3+2 airline seating.

 

[uglymonkey]

If it wasn't for the 150's, the pacers and "sprinterisation" a lot of the branch lines would now be overgrown country walks ( Exmouth, Barnstaple, Loo, etc. etc.).

 

[nw1]

To be honest, no.

They serve their purpose fine for rural stopping / provincial commuter lines, and as long as they do not make their way onto long-distance, 158-type services, they're fine. (I used 150s extensively in the 90s in particular, so I'm not talking about a unit with which I have no familiarity with).

If there's something to replace them with, fine, but if you remove them, it just means more service cuts.

Of course, like the Southern slam-door EMUs, the great thing about the Sprinter/Pacer family was the interoperability of the various classes and the flexibility it provided. This sadly seems to have gone out of fashion more recently...

 

[D365]

Seeing as no one wants to build Northern any new trains, expect to see them turned into Hybrids for another 25 years of work.

I suspect, after their experience with the Chiltern Turbos, Porterbrook won’t be so keen.

 

[yorksrob]

If there's something to replace them with, fine, but if you remove them, it just means more service cuts.

I read that Derby works are crying out for orders. This would be somewhere to start.

 

[mangyiscute]

For all we moan about 150s on Manchester - Cardiff, the TfW would be fine as 4-car. It is just a 2-car 150 that cannot really cope with the Marches. The actual interior is OK (the 197s are better, but they are new).

The 3+2 seats on Northern are less good and I remember they have poor legroom on some rows. However, the actual unit itself is fine enough with a bit of better interior design.

It is a shame that the TfW examples are having to retire because of corrosion because I do think Northern would gain a lot from having 150s in TfW style.

I would agree that the TfW/GWR ones are much nicer - the northern ones are maybe a 3/10, tfw ones a 7/10

 

[Mat17]

The 150s are vastly superior to the 153 pieces of junk, awful trains they were.

The 150s are miles worse than 158s/170s though.

The 195s would be better if they got rid of the tables and had adequate number of carriages and seats.

 

[skyhigh]

I read that Derby works are crying out for orders. This would be somewhere to start.

Apart from the fact that Derby have been producing (unreliable) electric units, which for obvious reasons are no use for replacing diesels. And any orders for bi-modes would have to go out to competitive tender which wouldn't necessarily be won by Alstom.

Not to mention that Northern are already underway with a tender to replace the legacy stock.

 

[Harpers Tate]

I'd judge the main issue with most of them is the criminally negligent interior layout, and not fundamentally the trains themselves. Sadly many "refurbishments" don't seek to change this and they remain dismal. It's not helped by the modular way in which they were constructed and the nature of the doors, which renders huge parts of the body side obscuring exterior view. That could be mitigated for perhaps half of the seats, but it typically isn't.

 

[The exile]

It's about time these scrap-heaps, that have no beneficial points, were sent to the scrap yard.

Just out of interest, what types would you award accolades to and why?

 

[yorksrob]

Just out of interest, what types would you award accolades to and why?

The 158 without a shadow of a doubt. Comfortable, high capacity, good layout, plenty of room, two toilets.

If only everything could be one.

 

[Efini92]

150213/217/227/229/231/235/237/255/257 (later 245 too) transferred to Norwich in the early 90s as Anglia became a TOU and where swapped back for 156s in the early 2000s to allow shorter dwell times in the West Midlands.

I always preffered driving 150s over 156s and was therefore chuffed when we hired in a 150 from Wales a couple of times in the 2010s. Very little if any difference cab wise but the 150s seem to brake/accelerate better.

/1’s were better. Was nice having a cab that wasn’t soaked every time it rained. Plus the view of the cab was really good.
I never liked 156’s, if it wasn’t the chin chopper windows, it was the cab door trying to take your fingers off.

 

[johnnychips]

I find Northern 150s absolutely fine, and use them about four times a week.

[This post was made by the ‘I’ve got short legs’ crew].

 

[dk1]

/1’s were better. Was nice having a cab that wasn’t soaked every time it rained. Plus the view of the cab was really good.
I never liked 156’s, if it wasn’t the chin chopper windows, it was the cab door trying to take your fingers off.

We never had any /1s apart from the odd Railtrack/Network Rail examples but even those we just moved around the depot although some drivers refused.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If it wasn't for the 150's, the pacers and "sprinterisation" a lot of the branch lines would now be overgrown country walks ( Exmouth, Barnstaple, Loo, etc. etc.).

People made the same arguments about Pacers, but I'm not sure they hold much water. Serpell (and the reaction to it) showed there was little public support for significant cuts to the network.