150's. They belong in the cess pool of history.

[The exile]

The 158 without a shadow of a doubt. Comfortable, high capacity, good layout, plenty of room, two toilets.

If only everything could be one.

Comfortable, yes (until the temperature starts rising in the summer) but totally impractical for routes where there is a high churn at intermediate stations. Horses for courses…. Agreed, 150s have had their day, but at 40 years old (nearly) they’re doing a lot better than their predecessors were at 30.

 

[YorksLad12]

If the 150's are to stick around they need to be formed into 3 carriage units.

I thought that was the plan in the 2016 franchise. The pandemic might have got in the way, of course...

Their Northern brethren may be the poorer relation, but the Western units are fine for a few more years yet (until something suitable is invented to replace them).

Blimey. Wish Northern's looked like that! I caught one a couple of times from Sheffield to Leeds on the semi-fast in the peak in 2018. Those 3-wide bays with no tables and no legroom put me off taking one again (though I have done the three-car set on the Sheffield to Leeds stopper a couple of times, out of necessity).

 

[yorksrob]

Comfortable, yes (until the temperature starts rising in the summer) but totally impractical for routes where there is a high churn at intermediate stations. Horses for courses…. Agreed, 150s have had their day, but at 40 years old (nearly) they’re doing a lot better than their predecessors were at 30.

True - they pootle around well enough. Shame the interior didn't get a decent refurb.

 

[Neptune]

I thought that was the plan in the 2016 franchise. The pandemic might have got in the way, of course...

The plan was always for 4 to be done from 6 units once 150001 & 002 arrived. This was duly done and they work on the Penistone Line (3 units) & Leeds - Sheffield via Moorthorpe (2 units) with one on maintenance at NL.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The plan was always for 4 to be done from 6 units once 150001 & 002 arrived. This was duly done and they work on the Penistone Line (3 units) & Leeds - Sheffield via Moorthorpe (2 units) with one on maintenance at NL.

There's possibly a case for more, given that there are ever fewer routes where a 40m formation is adequate. However, there are also routes where three cars isn't enough and four are needed- so you wouldn't want to "hybridise" them all.

It would also have been a smarter move to decide on this before everything was rushed through the PRM works, as then you wouldn't have some units with a significant amount of space needlessly used up by a second PRM-capable toilet.

 

[Chester1]

I used to have this view, however I have significantly warmed to them over the last few years. This is largely because the GWR and TFW units have a decent interior layout, which addresses what was my biggest issue. Prior to that the only decent interior in my view was the ex FNW 150/1s with the facing layout.

I don’t have any other issues with them - they are pretty reliable and indeed have proved themselves to be a bedrock during bad times. They have saved the day recently on both GWR and TFW.

Quite happy for 150s to continue ad infinitum so long as the interior layout is decent, and preferably with longer formations than a 2-car. One does wonder just how long they will continue to serve the Cornish branches.

The TfW 150s need their C6 overhauls very soon and this is determining when they go off lease. They could have their overhaul, new seat covers and repaint and then be used to send all 155s and the worst Northern 150s for scrap.

With the benefit of hindsight the Northern 150s should have been switched to a GWR / TfW style layout when they were refurbished but the contract began before the pandemic when capacity was more important than comfort.

Their Northern brethren may be the poorer relation, but the Western units are fine for a few more years yet (until something suitable is invented to replace them).

All 150s should go when the Northern led 450 unit replacement tender comes to fruition. Being optimistic that will hopefully be in next five years.

 

[Neptune]

There's possibly a case for more, given that there are ever fewer routes where a 40m formation is adequate. However, there are also routes where three cars isn't enough and four are needed- so you wouldn't want to "hybridise" them all.

The trouble is that then you’d be looking at reducing services and/or coaches elsewhere as the daily usage for 150’s is high from both depots,

It would also have been a smarter move to decide on this before everything was rushed through the PRM works, as then you wouldn't have some units with a significant amount of space needlessly used up by a second PRM-capable toilet.

Fine in theory but if you disband or change the units in the centre cars you lose a unit whilst it is PRM’d. Only 1 unit (005) has a PRM toilet centre car, the other 3 hybrids are 572xx DMS’s.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The trouble is that then you’d be looking at reducing services and/or coaches elsewhere as the daily usage for 150’s is high from both depots,

And if you disband or change the units in the centre cars you lose a unit whilst it is PRM’d. Only 1 unit (005) has a PRM toilet centre car, the other 3 hybrids are 572xx DMS’s.

Of course, it would only happen as part of a wider scheme to improve capacity, presumably assisted by other 15x cascaded from other operators to fill the gaps.

Only one of the current sets has a second toilet, but if more hybrid sets were formed then every other set would do so, as there aren't any additional "orphan" coaches. Given the age of the units now, the worry about what might happen if they're reformed in the future can probably be put to bed.

 

[Gaz55]

The have done their service well enough, but now is the time to replace them. As someone who is used to the Northern variety's, I was pleasantly surprised after travelling on a TFW example last summer. Tables and 3 pin sockets made it feel almost modern.

 

[Neptune]

Of course, it would only happen as part of a wider scheme to improve capacity, presumably assisted by other 15x cascaded from other operators to fill the gaps.

Only one of the current sets has a second toilet, but if more hybrid sets were formed then every other set would do so, as there aren't any additional "orphan" coaches. Given the age of the units now, the worry about what might happen if they're reformed in the future can probably be put to bed.

There’s no plans to make any other 3 cars as there’s no capacity in the fleet. They will be replaced by the end of the decade thankfully as they are planned to be the first to be replaced by the new fleet.

 

[Chester1]

The have done their service well enough, but now is the time to replace them. As someone who is used to the Northern variety's, I was pleasantly surprised after travelling on a TFW example last summer. Tables and 3 pin sockets made it feel almost modern.

With replacement five years off it is worth doing the C6 overhauls of TfW 150s and sending them to Northern and scrapping the least reliable Northern 150s. When Northern receives new units the TfW 150s could be the last to go for scrap.

Few people thought Pacers would be popular with heritage railways and there could be a repeat with sprinters. They are the last units that are sufficiently simple for heritage railways. I can see some in classic BR 90s livery on heritage railways by the end of the decade.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There’s no plans to make any other 3 cars as there’s no capacity in the fleet. They will be replaced by the end of the decade thankfully as they are planned to be the first to be replaced by the new fleet.

I didn't say there was, it was a hypothetical point- I was responding to a suggestion that there could or should be more.

 

[43096]

Few people thought Pacers would be popular with heritage railways and there could be a repeat with sprinters. They are the last units that are sufficiently simple for heritage railways. I can see some in classic BR 90s livery on heritage railways by the end of the decade.

156s are the best bet for heritage use, based on that criteria. However, preserved lines do not exist in a bubble - the volunteers they get now are much more likely to be skilled in things like electronics and air conditioning systems. So the barriers that some see to preserving later traction, are not necessarily as big as might be thought.

 

[yorksrob]

Rugged and reliable. Are those not benefits?

I was probably being a bit harsh on them.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

150s have had their day, but at 40 years old (nearly) they’re doing a lot better than their predecessors were at 30.

Agree 100%. Those who describe 150s as the worst train ever built obviously have no experience of everyday use of 1st generation dmus especially once they had a few years wear on them. I shudder at the memory of travelling on a Cravens 105 doing 70 mph across the fens with every fitting rattling so hard you couldn't have any sort of conversation. Or the hybrid 123/124 sets struggling up the climbs on the Hope Valley route barely doing 20 mph because their engines were so worn out. By comparison the 150s were luxury.

Their biggest issue was simply too few were built, which was directly as a result of government edict, namely for every 3 1st gen cars being replaced only 2 2nd gen cars were funded. Where BR did get it right was specifying all cars having engines to ensure better acceleration, hence the "Sprinter" tag.

 

[childwallblues]

Is 150228 still on the go,had my first 'incident ' with that bugger.Overshot a station ,set back with permission got another couple of stops then told to de train the passengers as it had been booked for brakes the previous couple of days and run empties back to depot.

Still around. Resides at Neville Hill these days.

 

[150249]

Please don't scrap me...

GWR sets are still workhorses. Still run well and ideal for branches. Northern sets, especially /1s, are bad but not all are

 

[chuff chuff]

Still around. Resides at Neville Hill these days.

Right okay thanks,trying to think when it must have been,probably early nineties.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

It's about time these scrap-heaps, that have no beneficial points, were sent to the scrap yard.

Yes they do have a beneficial point - they can move people from A to B which fresh air can’t do.

Agree they need replacing which is why Northern has a tender out but there’s no benefit sending 150s for scrap until the new trains have entered traffic.

It's funny that the Government in London is keen to replace the IC225's, but has no interest in getting rid of crap loçal trains.

The 225 replacement is simply to do with it being very challenging to fit the new signalling equipment that is coming on stream on the ECML to increase capacity to this fleet.

 

[Chester1]

156s are the best bet for heritage use, based on that criteria. However, preserved lines do not exist in a bubble - the volunteers they get now are much more likely to be skilled in things like electronics and air conditioning systems. So the barriers that some see to preserving later traction, are not necessarily as big as might be thought.

Won't spare electronic parts and cost be a problem for post BR DMUs? I hope some are perserved but I would be surprised if they become significant like Pacers. According to Wikipedia 46 pacers have been preserved for operational use!

 

[satisnek]

Really,the only things wrong with the 150s are the appalling window arrangement which doesn't suit any seating layout (the SR PEP units set a paradigm which BR couldn't break out of until the advent of plug doors on the Networkers/Turbos etc.) and inadequate/lack of underfloor acoustic insulation. They got a bad rap in the 1980s because of usage on long-distance services, for which they were totally unsuitable, until the 158s came along. Otherwise, they're solid, reliable commuter units which have certainly proved their worth (I know because I used them for that purpose for a few years!).

I do feel that 150 001 should go into the National Collection when withdrawn (150 002 has been too heavily butchered in its time) because it was the prototype for the highly successful 'Sprinter concept' - every vehicle has a single engine - which has only recently been superseded by the new generation of 'electro-diesel' units (or whatever they're called). But I travelled on 001 on the Penistone line last year and oh, how depressing! The first thing I noticed was that it now has a big disabled toilet fitted, but if that's the price to pay for continuing in service, then fair enough. Much, much worse, though, is that the entire interior from waist level upwards - including the aluminium trim strips - has been covered in white slap (think Mr. Bean redecorating his flat by exploding a paint pot with a firework!), which can only make restoration to its original condition more difficult.

I say replace the internal cab door as visually that just shouts 1970s to me!

For me, that's one of the things about the 150s which represents the Darwinian link between 'proper' British rolling stock and the plastic stuff which came afterwards!

 

[richw]

Never would have guessed those interior shots were of a 150.

I should have added I live in GWR land so was unaware of the contrast to northern ones.
I visited wales and the TFW were to a good standard too,
I suspect the northern ones you are familiar with are the weak link from comments here

 

[RuddA]

I should have added I live in GWR land so was unaware of the contrast to northern ones.
I visited wales and the TFW were to a good standard too,
I suspect the northern ones you are familiar with are the weak link from comments here

Apart from a single journey on one in Wales 2 years ago I haven't been on one for years. Would be interesting to see a similar photo of a Northern 150.

 

[bramling]

For me, that's one of the things about the 150s which represents the Darwinian link between 'proper' British rolling stock and the plastic stuff which came afterwards!

It isn’t an issue for me, however it’s something which just looks very dated and is quite visible, which would shout to passengers that they’re travelling in a very old train. Whereas many other aspects of the inside are actually quite timeless.

 

[Grecian 1998]

Living in Bristol, the vast majority of my use of 150s is with GWR or TfW, all of which bar 3 GWR units are 2+2 seating. As said upthread, they're pretty useful down here - reliable and effective. 2 X 150s act as very effective people movers on Exmouth - Paignton services, which has a high churn at numerous stations not just Exeter, particularly in summer.

In heatwaves, they're alright when moving due to the airflow but uncomfortable when stopped. Still an improvement on a 158 or 166 with failed aircon, which can be incredibly unpleasant.

I'm not actually sure if any other modern traction is allowed on the Gunnislake or Looe lines with their extremely sharp curves, so suspect the denizens of those places would be particularly unhappy if they were left with a class 139.

Another advantage which I don't think has been mentioned - if any folk are playing appalling music out loud, the engine noise drowns it out to a significant extent. Going through the Severn Tunnel with the windows open could produce a fairly deafening noise when they worked between Cardiff and Bristol. Still an improvement on some of the things you could otherwise hear.

 

[Anonymous10]

Living in Bristol, the vast majority of my use of 150s is with GWR or TfW, all of which bar 3 GWR units are 2+2 seating. As said upthread, they're pretty useful down here - reliable and effective. 2 X 150s act as very effective people movers on Exmouth - Paignton services, which has a high churn at numerous stations not just Exeter, particularly in summer.

In heatwaves, they're alright when moving due to the airflow but uncomfortable when stopped. Still an improvement on a 158 or 166 with failed aircon, which can be incredibly unpleasant.

I'm not actually sure if any other modern traction is allowed on the Gunnislake or Looe lines with their extremely sharp curves, so suspect the denizens of those places would be particularly unhappy if they were left with a class 139.

Another advantage which I don't think has been mentioned - if any folk are playing appalling music out loud, the engine noise drowns it out to a significant extent. Going through the Severn Tunnel with the windows open could produce a fairly deafening noise when they worked between Cardiff and Bristol. Still an improvement on some of the things you could otherwise hear.

I'd assume those lines would look at d trains or units like the 398 but in a battery form.

 

[Mat17]

Another advantage which I don't think has been mentioned - if any folk are playing appalling music out loud, the engine noise drowns it out to a significant extent.

Absolutely! Nothing better than engine roar blotting out that awful rap music, or people using their phones on speaker phone when having a not so private conversation.

I'm starting to like 150s more and more.

 

[Purple Train]

I'm not overly keen on 150/1s due to the seat layout, but GWR's 150s are excellent and they are very dependable little things. No software to throw a fit for one thing!

 

[D365]

The 225 replacement is simply to do with it being very challenging to fit the new signalling equipment that is coming on stream on the ECML to increase capacity to this fleet.

It’s not strictly ETCS. After all, Network Rail is throwing millions at getting ’heritage’ pre and post/privatisation locos fitted.

 

[michael74]

I'm not overly keen on 150/1s due to the seat layout, but GWR's 150s are excellent and they are very dependable little things. No software to throw a fit for one thing!

The GWR 150s coming out of C6 have 3x2 seating and unless you are in a table or priority seat your knees won't fit, even following C6 still failing. Noisy and bouncy, can't wait to see the back of them.