175s getting Dellner couplers rather than just Scharfenbergs?

[anamyd]

My friend told me that his friend said that the 175s will be getting the same couplers as the 197s, and that 175113 has already been fitted with them.

If I have this right, that means that the Scharfenberg couplers on the 175s are being replaced with the Dellner couplers that the 197s have.

Also, if I have this right, Dellner couplers are based on Scharfenberg couplers and are mechanically the same, but have extra electrical stuff in them.

Could this change be for ECS, rescue, things like that? I don't believe 175s and 197s would be able to work together in passenger service, even with the coupler change, because of TMS differences and things like that.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

My friend told me that his friend said that the 175s will be getting the same couplers as the 197s, and that 175113 has already been fitted with them.

If I have this right, that means that the Scharfenberg couplers on the 175s are being replaced with the Dellner couplers that the 197s have.

Also, if I have this right, Dellner couplers are based on Scharfenberg couplers and are mechanically the same, but have extra electrical stuff in them.

Could this change be for ECS, rescue, things like that? I don't believe 175s and 197s would be able to work together in passenger service, even with the coupler change, because of TMS differences and things like that.

I shall see 113 later today when it passes my local, so I shall try and remember to find out for you.

 

[Caaardiff]

Seems a completely pointless exercise given that they will only be working alongside each other for less than a year.

 

[XAM2175]

Also, if I have this right, Dellner couplers are based on Scharfenberg couplers and are mechanically the same, but have extra electrical stuff in them.

They use the same mechanical principle, but have numerous different configurations of electrical connections. There's no one Scharfenberg "standard", and no one standard pattern for where the electrical contacts go in relation to the coupler itself.

 

[fgwrich]

Seems a completely pointless exercise given that they will only be working alongside each other for less than a year.

Not entirely pointless. With the scarcity of BSI couplers around, and growing use of Dellners, changing the couplings on the 175 fleet may make them more attractive to a potential lessor in the future. A little thing, but an increase in the rolling stock comparability stakes.

 

[43096]

Not entirely pointless. With the scarcity of BSI couplers around, and growing use of Dellners, changing the couplings on the 175 fleet may make them more attractive to a potential lessor in the future. A little thing, but an increase in the rolling stock comparability stakes.

BSI couplers is a red herring for the 175 fleet: they’ve never had them.

 

[Vanmanyo]

Not entirely pointless. With the scarcity of BSI couplers around, and growing use of Dellners, changing the couplings on the 175 fleet may make them more attractive to a potential lessor in the future. A little thing, but an increase in the rolling stock comparability stakes.

The 175s are expected to go to Chiltern as stated in theit franchise agreement. So this seems useless unless it would allow compatibility with 168s or 165s. I'm not good on couplers so I'm not sure what the 168s or 165s have!

 

[SuperLuke2334]

175113 is right next to me right now and can confirm the couplers are still the same.

The 175s are expected to go to Chiltern as stated in theit franchise agreement. So this seems useless unless it would allow compatibility with 168s or 165s. I'm not good on couplers so I'm not sure what the 168s or 165s have!

165s 168s have BSI couplings.

 

[Vanmanyo]

175113 is right next to me right now and can confirm the couplers are still the same.


165s 168s have BSI couplings.

Ah thanks, so is this a myth about the couplers? Clearly you are a TFW local so do you think they will go to Chiltern when they leave? Has anyone said?

 

[skyhigh]

The 175s are expected to go to Chiltern as stated in theit franchise agreement.

That isn't explicitly stated. From memory, the document you're referring to says something along the lines of "any class 165 or 175 present in the fleet" should have been upgraded. It doesn't say 175s are definitely going there, and any 'franchise agreements' are long since superseded.

Found it:

Nope.

What the source for that actually says is:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1081083/chiltern-railway-company-ltd-business-plan-commitments.pdf

All that says is that *if* Chiltern have any Class 175 units, then they shall fit them with HyDrive. It suggests that 175s are an option, but nothing more.

Chiltern Railway Company Limited 2021: business plan commitments said:
39.4 Subject to the Secretary of State providing his approval and funding being made available, commencing from [REDACT , the Operator shall introduce a HyDrive fleet fitment programme in respect of all the Class 165 units comprised in the Train Fleet and, any Class 175 units which are part of the Train Fleet as at that date.

 

[Vanmanyo]

That isn't explicitly stated. From memory, the document you're referring to says something along the lines of "any class 165 or 175 present in the fleet" should have been upgraded. It doesn't say 175s are definitely going there, and any 'franchise agreements' are long since superseded.

You actually remembered it pretty well tbf. This was in their latest agreement in December 21. There has been strong speculation, but wholly speculation, from staff that I've spoken to that some will go to Chiltern.

Found it:

Sorry I didn't actually realise you sent that before I found it myself haha

 

[DanNCL]

Scharfenberg is a type of coupler. Dellner is a manufacturer that produces Scharfenberg couplers - other manufacturers such as Wabtec also produce Scharfenberg couplers.

All Scharfenbergs regardless of manufacturer should be mechanically compatible, although height differences mean this isn’t always the case in practice. Additionally, couplers with a top electrical connection and a guide horn can’t mechanically connect to a coupler with a bottom electrical connection unless the electrical connection on the latter coupler is retracted.

 

[Vanmanyo]

Scharfenberg is a type of coupler. Dellner is a manufacturer that produces Scharfenberg couplers - other manufacturers such as Wabtec also produce Scharfenberg couplers.

All Scharfenbergs regardless of manufacturer should be mechanically compatible, although height differences mean this isn’t always the case in practice. Additionally, couplers with a top electrical connection and a guide horn can’t mechanically connect to a coupler with a bottom electrical connection unless the electrical connection on the latter coupler is retracted.

Ah thank you. Is Dellner a large manufacturer of couplers then?

 

[DanNCL]

Ah thank you. Is Dellner a large manufacturer of couplers then?

Not just couplers but other stuff such as gangway connections too.

Products for Train Connection Systems | Dellner

Learn more about our products for Train Connection Systems: couplers, gangways & dampers for the railway industry.

www.dellner.com

 

[Vanmanyo]

Not just couplers but other stuff such as gangway connections too.

Products for Train Connection Systems | Dellner

Learn more about our products for Train Connection Systems: couplers, gangways & dampers for the railway industry.

www.dellner.com

Ah yes they do a lot, dampers, amplifiers etc. Do you know what couplers 168s and 165s have?

 

[AJDesiro]

Ah yes they do a lot, dampers, amplifiers etc. Do you know what couplers 168s and 165s have?

It was already meantioned earlier, they both have BSI couplers.

 

[fgwrich]

BSI couplers is a red herring for the 175 fleet: they’ve never had them.

Indeed, but I mentioned it given the issues EMR are having in finding replacement BSIs for the ex Southern 4 they’ve got. Old technology, and seemingly harder to get hold of as well.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Ah thanks, so is this a myth about the couplers? Clearly you are a TFW local so do you think they will go to Chiltern when they leave? Has anyone said?

Nobody knows anything, it's purely rumour where they're going. I shan't fill up this thread with speculation, as there's a 25 page thread in the speculative discussion section which has covered pretty much everything. I don't have an opinion either personally.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

A great example of why "my friend told me" will never be a wonderful source.

 

[dgl]

Admittedly if the old Sprinter stock was going to be around for years to come then fitting schafenberg couplers to them all would probably be a sensible idea, but it would take time to do and you'd have the problem if some trains being upgraded and some not, with the potential problem of having two trains joining each other and the couplers being different.

 

[43096]

Admittedly if the old Sprinter stock was going to be around for years to come then fitting schafenberg couplers to them all would probably be a sensible idea, but it would take time to do and you'd have the problem if some trains being upgraded and some not, with the potential problem of having two trains joining each other and the couplers being different.

ScotRail managed to convert the Class 334 fleet from Tightlock to Scharfenburg, so it can be done.

 

[D365]

A great example of why "my friend told me" will never be a wonderful source.

It is a source... for the Speculative Discussion subforum.