1992 stock Refurbishment?

[NSEWonderer]

Can anyone confirm that the 1992 Stock Number: 91111 is due this month for testing or ready to do so?

 

[Dstock7080]

Can anyone confirm that the 1992 Stock Number: 91111 is due this month for testing or ready to do so?

Along with 91201-92201, I doubt these will be released from Acton this month.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Along with 91201-92201, I doubt these will be released from Acton this month.

Cheers thought as much. Thanks

 

[Snow1964]

There is a note on the new TfL Board 2023-24 Budget that target is to have 50% of Bakerloo trains with LED lighting by July 2023 (see page 12 of link). Not clear to me why there is a 50% target rather than a 100% target

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s19826/TfL%20Budget%202023-24.pdf

 

[jojoseph72]

There is a note on the new TfL Board 2023-24 Budget that target is to have 50% of Bakerloo trains with LED lighting by July 2023 (see page 12 of link). Not clear to me why there is a 50% target rather than a 100% target

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/s19826/TfL%20Budget%202023-24.pdf

Most probably from when they started the project to July 2023 they can realistically refit all the Bakerloo Line trains with LED lighting, thus setting themselves a more realistic target.
In the long run I’m sure all Bakerloo Line trains will have LED lights fitted.

 

[Nym]

Doesn't surprise me given how the project was being set up back then, seemed to be a general lack of understanding of the vehicles condition from the inception.
Entertaining given that the whole reason for LED lighting was nothing to do with a hard 2020 deadline that is now so far in the rear view mirror it's even more of an embarrassment than having 10 years notice and only starting thinking about it 8 years into said 10 years notice.

 

[321over360]

Anyone got update as to when the first train may be seen out on the tracks?

 

[Dstock7080]

none have been released from Acton Works yet.

 

[jojoseph72]

Saw this post earlier on Twitter, the author requested under a Freedom of Information Request (FOI) an update on the 1992 Stock Refurbishment and managed to get some pics of the progress.

https://twitter.com/clondoner92/status/1657060567691976705?s=46&t=_tw3_-3e3NdGPfMpfI3EEQ

Refurbishment is definitely coming along nicely, new PIS system does seem to take some of the window space there once was.
What do you guys think of it?

 

[Mikey C]

That wheelchair area is massive. I don't understand the inconsistent use of tip up seats. The 95, 2009 and S stock have them, whereas the 96s don't

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I wonder why it’s taking so long. TfL don’t seem in a major hurry to complete stock refurbishments lately. The far less comprehensive 378 refresh was just abandoned a quarter of the way through, seemingly, and this seems to be taken yonks and all - if I am right in thinking not one refurbished set is in service yet. Obviously I wouldn’t expect the whole fleet done already.

That wheelchair area is massive. I don't understand the inconsistent use of tip up seats. The 95, 2009 and S stock have them, whereas the 96s don't

The 96s are the oldest spec/earliest ordered of the four mentioned there which might explain it. Perch seats seemed to be the preferred option beforehand. I don’t know what stock had before, whether perch seats were the normal until the 95 brought about tip ups, or if perch seats were just a trial and they decided not to include them in future stock.

 

[bramling]

I wonder why it’s taking so long. TfL don’t seem in a major hurry to complete stock refurbishments lately. The far less comprehensive 378 refresh was just abandoned a quarter of the way through, seemingly, and this seems to be taken yonks and all - if I am right in thinking not one refurbished set is in service yet. Obviously I wouldn’t expect the whole fleet done already.

Covid will have played a part no doubt, however it’s fair to say the 92 stock project will be pretty complex given just how problematic these trains have become. I imagine they will have run in to a lot of issues.

The 96s are the oldest spec/earliest ordered of the four mentioned there which might explain it. Perch seats seemed to be the preferred option beforehand. I don’t know what stock had before, whether perch seats were the normal until the 95 brought about tip ups, or if perch seats were just a trial and they decided not to include them in future stock.

In the case of the 95 stock the then Northern Line management made a number of changes to the specification compared to the earlier 96 stock. At that time the individual lines had quite a bit of input into these sorts of things. I don’t know if the tip up seats were part of this, but it’s certainly possible.

 

[Mikey C]

In the case of the 95 stock the then Northern Line management made a number of changes to the specification compared to the earlier 96 stock. At that time the individual lines had quite a bit of input into these sorts of things. I don’t know if the tip up seats were part of this, but it’s certainly possible.

The tip up seats make a major difference, 8 extra seats in a carriage is significant increase (giving 42 instead of 34). A difference between the lines is that the JLE extension part of the Jubilee Line is fully accessible, thus making it more attractive for wheelchairs and pushchairs.

 

[fgwrich]

Saw this post earlier on Twitter, the author requested under a Freedom of Information Request (FOI) an update on the 1992 Stock Refurbishment and managed to get some pics of the progress.

https://twitter.com/clondoner92/status/1657060567691976705?s=46&t=_tw3_-3e3NdGPfMpfI3EEQ

Refurbishment is definitely coming along nicely, new PIS system does seem to take some of the window space there once was.
What do you guys think of it?

What I am a little surprised about, is the use of buff coloured plastics to match the old stuff. I'd have thought they'd at least try to make them look a little more modern inside than go for a dated colour in a dated interior!

Oh, and the door buttons too!

 

[MCR247]

If they’re having to add a piece of moulding the full width of the window it seems daft to go for such a small PIS screen but that’s just me.

Someone will say ‘it’s the same size as 95/96/09/73ts’ but personally it just seems a bit daft. Especially the 09 stock where the announcements need the screen to scroll all the way through to get the full message across visually - but can’t because they’re given too much to say/the announcements are too close together.

 

[jojoseph72]

I wonder why it’s taking so long. TfL don’t seem in a major hurry to complete stock refurbishments lately. The far less comprehensive 378 refresh was just abandoned a quarter of the way through, seemingly, and this seems to be taken yonks and all - if I am right in thinking not one refurbished set is in service yet. Obviously I wouldn’t expect the whole fleet done already.

Off topic but I still think the 378 refurbishment is still occurring just extremely slowly.
But yes correct no 92 stock is completed. From memory one is out for interior refurbishment and another is out for new traction testing.

What I am a little surprised about, is the use of buff coloured plastics to match the old stuff. I'd have thought they'd at least try to make them look a little more modern inside than go for a dated colour in a dated interior!

Oh, and the door buttons too!

That one did take me aback a little bit too, but with inflationary costs most prob easier to match the current colour plastic then change it to a whiter colour.
Buttons as well still there, but maybe that’ll change… see something similar to Northern Line refurb.

If they’re having to add a piece of moulding the full width of the window it seems daft to go for such a small PIS screen but that’s just me.

That is annoying, they could’ve put in a larger PIS, potential maybe a small LCD Panel. But I guess budget and inflationary constraints mean getting it done as cheaply as possible meaning the cheapest LED panel possible to be able to have a PIS system.
It’s better then nothing

 

[ScottGallagher]

Judging by the installed perch areas I'm surprised they are sticking with the blue Barman moquette, it's never looked right on the Central stock.

 

[thomalex]

One change I've spotted is the red grab handle above the doors. Currently dark grey

 

[321over360]

Oh, and the door buttons too!

Ive seen a few 92 carriages where the External Buttons have actually been removed from both the doors (still evident where it was but now all red metal) and the end bodywork (being replaced with a plate)

One change I've spotted is the red grab handle above the doors. Currently dark grey

Maybe they are going to finally make them like other lines where the grab poles are all the same colour in the train, and hopefully all the old poles will have a full repaint given parts of every carriage ones have paintwork missing from them, in some cases very heavily worn off

 

[Recessio]

Surprised that the new LED display is taking up window space, rather than an advertising panel (like on the Picadilly). But then I guess the 92 had larger windows than e.g. 95/96 stock, so they can afford to lose the window space and not reduce the advertising space (which would incur a financial hit?)

 

[NSEWonderer]

The fact they went with Led over LCD interests me. Would have been imo(cost wise maybe not so) a great way to add a slightly new lease of life to the stock by having lcd screen that show tfl disruption status boards and the other lines that station has for connecting commuters less familiar. Maybe even a sneaky weather or temperature screen too.

 

[Nym]

It was offered to the project higher ups with a business case, and the additional cost resulted in a rejection.

(It being LCD screens including disruption, cctv mimic and advertising)

 

[fgwrich]

It was offered to the project higher ups with a business case, and the additional cost resulted in a rejection.

(It being LCD screens including disruption, cctv mimic and advertising)

Presumably, adding LCD advertising screens would also have the unwanted effect of adding further (albeit small) warmth to the already warmest stock going?

 

[Thirteen]

I imagine it's more likely that the newer Tube stock like the Victoria Line 2009 stock and the S Stock would get LCD screens when they get refreshed although not sure where you'd put them on the Victoria Line stock as it's quite limited in terms of space.

 

[Russel]

Surprised that the new LED display is taking up window space, rather than an advertising panel (like on the Picadilly). But then I guess the 92 had larger windows than e.g. 95/96 stock, so they can afford to lose the window space and not reduce the advertising space (which would incur a financial hit?)

The LED display and associated housing taking up window space may actually be a good thing.

The 92 stocks large, wrap around windows result in the greenhouse effect during the summer, so loosing some of the window space may help ease this.

 

[Dstock7080]

Maybe they are going to finally make them like other lines where the grab poles are all the same colour in the train,

‘09 Stock has two colour handrails

 

[321over360]

Presumably, adding LCD advertising screens would also have the unwanted effect of adding further (albeit small) warmth to the already warmest stock going?

Doesnt help when the heaters are switched on in the mornings when they dont need to be like alot of times lately where its mild outside, i have put my hand over the vent while in the platform at Newbury Park and can feel warm air coming in through them, pity deep level tubes dont just loose the Heating circuits as there is sufficient heat trapped in the tunnels to warm the trains up

 

[Recessio]

The LED display and associated housing taking up window space may actually be a good thing.

The 92 stocks large, wrap around windows result in the greenhouse effect during the summer, so loosing some of the window space may help ease this.

Very true. I was hoping they'd do something about the window tinting and beige interior making it so gloomy (look at how much nicer the 96 stock was after the refurb), but looks like that won't be the case from the images...

 

[100andthirty]

The new LED lights are much brighter.

 

[Jammy Dodger]

People have commented about the significant reuse of old parts being drab, I'd assume this is to cut costs given 92 stock are next in line for replacement under NTfL. Yes, I know Bakerloo stock is older and is in more need, however my understanding is TfL are prioritising Central for replacement first due to the higher usage rates (even after considering usage reductions from XR)