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19th July Lockdown Easing - Observations and Compliance

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Jimini

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Having made a hundred or so (unmasked) tube journeys since the introduction of the condition of carriage I can guarantee you I have never:

1) Seen any punters accosted by the not-police whatever they are stationed at big stations;
2) Seen the not-police who have been at one or two of my interchange stations on many of the journeys I've taken ever do anything except natter to each other at the gateline while not even looking at punters (whilst in many cases not wearing masks themselves).

I wouldn't let it worry you. Enforcement is non-existent.


^^ This. ^^
 
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Bungle73

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Just had a totally different experience on my return GWR journey. Guards (appeared to change en route) telling us all over the PA how we all need to be wearing masks because the government says so. Made it sound like they thought the old rules are still place.

The next part of the journey, on SE Highspeed annoyed me a bit. The Train Manager started coming out with this "COVID rates are still sky high" so we'd better all wear masks nonsense - it sounded like emotional blackmail to me. Who does he think he is? He also told us we needed to socially distance other pax we don't know, even though the need for that ended weeks ago!
 

johnnychips

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Just had a totally different experience on my return GWR journey. Guards (appeared to change en route) telling us all over the PA how we all need to be wearing masks because the government says so. Made it sound like they thought the old rules are still place.

The next part of the journey, on SE Highspeed annoyed me a bit. The Train Manager started coming out with this "COVID rates are still sky high" so we'd better all wear masks nonsense - it sounded like emotional blackmail to me. Who does he think he is? He also told us we needed to socially distance other pax we don't know, even though the need for that ended weeks ago!
^ Please complain. That is out of order. It is one thing giving the government stuff about ‘respect’ etc. But adding your personal opinion is threatening and wrong.
 

Butts

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Having made a hundred or so (unmasked) tube journeys since the introduction of the condition of carriage I can guarantee you I have never:

1) Seen any punters accosted by the not-police whatever they are stationed at big stations;
2) Seen the not-police who have been at one or two of my interchange stations on many of the journeys I've taken ever do anything except natter to each other at the gateline while not even looking at punters (whilst in many cases not wearing masks themselves).

I wouldn't let it worry you. Enforcement is non-existent.

Why is this fact not being highlighted by the media and Khan being asked to explain the point of the policy in light of the non-enforcement?
 

Bikeman78

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Thanks for your reply. It seems I've muddled bylaws with conditions of carriage.

Well, as I've no desire to be threatened with being removed, or to have to tell lies to get around it, I think I'll stick to my policy of not visiting London at present; which of course also means not giving any money to TfL, or spending any money in shops, restaurants, tourist attractions or pubs.

I'll return to London, when I'm not being treated as a nuisance, or made to feel like some sort of criminal. I know and love London, but not under those conditions.
I've seen loads of people on the underground without a mask. No one has ever questioned it. In fact I think there are fewer masks on the tube than most National Rail trains. You won't have any bother.
 

greyman42

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Thanks for your reply. It seems I've muddled bylaws with conditions of carriage.

Well, as I've no desire to be threatened with being removed, or to have to tell lies to get around it, I think I'll stick to my policy of not visiting London at present; which of course also means not giving any money to TfL, or spending any money in shops, restaurants, tourist attractions or pubs.

I'll return to London, when I'm not being treated as a nuisance, or made to feel like some sort of criminal. I know and love London, but not under those conditions.
From my experience on the Underground, you will be neither threatened with being removed or have to tell any lies. Staff could not care less whether or not you wear a useless mask and the idea that mask usage is at 80% is absolute rubbish from my experience.
 

DustyBin

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Further to the other replies @davetheguard I've been in London for the past week and mask compliance on public transport is very low. Even the staff aren’t bothering in a lot of cases. I honestly wouldn’t let your concerns put you off visiting if it’s something you enjoy.
 

Bungle73

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^ Please complain. That is out of order. It is one thing giving the government stuff about ‘respect’ etc. But adding your personal opinion is threatening and wrong.

I directed a complaint at SE on Twitter and they came back with a "We recommend...." copy and paste reply.
 

John Luxton

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My observations of Merseyrail over past few weeks a steady decline in mask wearers. Quite a few with them attached to their body now seen to wear them around their chin - so why do they bother wearing them at all? :D

Post July 19th I started travelling again - locally at present but will be wandering further afield very soon except over the border in to Wales. TFW won't be seeing me until Drakeford changes his tune and that doesn't look to be any time soon.

I retired just before all Covid kicked off and had decided to go back to using the network as opposed to just visiting heritage railways by car.

However, the dubious mask wearing malarkey (which even the scientists could not agree on in 2020) put me off travelling by bus or train.

Masks should always have been a free choice. Emphasis should have been on hand sanitising, wearing a mask if feeling unwell or vulnerable, but with everyone else being free to chose after conducting their own risk assessment for themselves and their family.

If you feel vulnerable by all means wear a mask if you don't well there should be no obligation to wear one.

The government message should have been "be responsible for yourself" this "for other people" was just a bit of psychological warfare plus a desire to be seen to be doing something.
 

Bungle73

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Irritatingly misleading post by the RDG on Twitter just now. Apparently these are "rules" that need to be followed.....

"As government restrictions ease, we are welcoming more passengers back. If you’re taking the train this weekend, you can #TravelWithConfidence. Please help us by following a few simple rules - hands face space"

 

Merseysider

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Many struggled to differentiate between advice, guidance & law during the lockdowns etc. I imagine plenty are still unable to do so - if government messaging isn’t crystal clear then it will trickle down.

Apparently these are "rules" that need to be followed...
Only one of those, hands / face / space, has ever been a rule :lol:
 

TPO

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It really is time for employers to take a firm stance with these kinds of people who have had unprecedented lead swinging ability for far too long now: “either get back to the office when we tell you to, or look for a new job!”.

(Obviously in some cases there may be a genuine mental health issue involved, but it’s not unreasonable to expect individuals to provide some evidence of this.)

Agree totally.

The level of mask-wearing out and about on the M-way network (service stations) and motel chain network has dropped steadily over the past few weeks to almost zero last week. My work takes me all over the place and I've seen a steady trend.

TPO
 

Bikeman78

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Irritatingly misleading post by the RDG on Twitter just now. Apparently these are "rules" that need to be followed.....

"As government restrictions ease, we are welcoming more passengers back. If you’re taking the train this weekend, you can #TravelWithConfidence. Please help us by following a few simple rules - hands face space"

I've always travelled with confidence. As for space, people tend to spread out within a carriage until it fills up. Once it's full they can't spread out. Admittedly the carriages closest to the entrance tend to fill up first as they always have done.
 

DustyBin

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I've always travelled with confidence. As for space, people tend to spread out within a carriage until it fills up. Once it's full they can't spread out. Admittedly the carriages closest to the entrance tend to fill up first as they always have done.

The whole “travel with confidence” nonsense is a great example of doublespeak. Like you, I travel with confidence by completely ignoring the guidance; those that follow the guidance do so as they’re not confident. It’s Nineteen Eighty-Four in action again (albeit indirectly as the term doublespeak is derived from, but not one of, the books concepts).
 

bramling

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The whole “travel with confidence” nonsense is a great example of doublespeak. Like you, I travel with confidence by completely ignoring the guidance; those that follow the guidance do so as they’re not confident. It’s Nineteen Eighty-Four in action again (albeit indirectly as the term doublespeak is derived from, but not one of, the books concepts).

"Travel with confidence" was the botched attempt last July to get people back, which roughly coincided with masks becoming a thing. Here we are 15 months later and still experiencing the fall-out from it.
 

yorksrob

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Reminds me of the song "Kissing with Confidence" by Carly Simon.

Less likely to become a Radio 2 favourite though.
 

Tracked

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It was St Leger weekend in Doncaster yesterday, I was at a music session in one of the pubs in the afternoon (first for 18 months, yay, that's something I'm glad's back :) ) and went through town around 6pm; very few people wearing masks, even fewer sober (saw people putting empties in a bin as they arrived at one of the spoons' in town at 9am yesterday, so not entirely surprising ... ).

Caught the train home around 8pm, had to wait for a load of (unmasked, like most of the train) Man United fans on the way home getting off it first, all of them quite pissed happy.

Nice to see some normality back, I suppose :s
 
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TPO

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Last Night of the Proms was on TV last night.

Hardly a mask in sight in the (close packed) audience (although the Beeb tried it's best to show the handful maskivists as much as it could......)

TPO
 

davetheguard

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I wouldn't let it worry you. Enforcement is non-existent.

I've seen loads of people on the underground without a mask. No one has ever questioned it. In fact I think there are fewer masks on the tube than most National Rail trains. You won't have any bother.

From my experience on the Underground, you will be neither threatened with being removed or have to tell any lies. Staff could not care less whether or not you wear a useless mask and the idea that mask usage is at 80% is absolute rubbish from my experience.

Further to the other replies @davetheguard I've been in London for the past week and mask compliance on public transport is very low. Even the staff aren’t bothering in a lot of cases. I honestly wouldn’t let your concerns put you off visiting if it’s something you enjoy.

Thanks to all for your replies, and descriptions of the reality of London journeys at the moment.
 

island

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Kahn was trying to make it a bylaw so BTP could enforce and fine people which they state is not their business at the moment
Thankfully, the law requires him to obtain the transport secretary’s consent to make new byelaws, and such consent wasn’t forthcoming.
 

317 forever

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Despite the lockdown easing, I have come across a restriction that may be a Covid restriction not yet eased. At the Beatles Story Museum we need to pre-book our visit online and pay then. They will only allow people who turn up suddenly to enter if space permits. We used to be able to turn up and pay whenever we wanted.
 

Merseysider

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“You must wear a face covering ... anyone who is not exempt could receive a fine from the British Transport Police” according to the automatic annoucement on my LNR service from Crewe.

Yes, it’s been brought to their attention.

Sheer laziness by LNR. I’m beginning to think these announcements will be here in 2022...
 

John Luxton

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What is the mask situation with Manchester Metrolink? Last thing I heard was they were going to try and make them compulsory. Did they? Merseyside Metro Mayor admitted he wanted to make them compulsory but admitted he couldn't.
Thankfully, the law requires him to obtain the transport secretary’s consent to make new byelaws, and such consent wasn’t forthcoming.
 

johntea

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Don’t worry about Metrolink, I would say mask usage is around 30% if that!

Same in the West Yorkshire bus stations which the local mayor tried to stick her nose into
 

Hadders

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Last Night of the Proms was on TV last night.

Hardly a mask in sight in the (close packed) audience (although the Beeb tried it's best to show the handful maskivists as much as it could......)

TPO
And holding hands to sing Auld Lang Syne.
 

DelayRepay

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The whole “travel with confidence” nonsense is a great example of doublespeak. Like you, I travel with confidence by completely ignoring the guidance; those that follow the guidance do so as they’re not confident. It’s Nineteen Eighty-Four in action again (albeit indirectly as the term doublespeak is derived from, but not one of, the books concepts).

I am confident about travelling, but the factors which make me less confident include concern about whether I will be 'told off' for not wearing a mask (I know this is unlikely in practice) nor standing/sitting in the wrong place. And concern about whether I will get to my destination on time (or at all...) given the media reports of staff shortages, service cuts and potential strikes (again, I know in reality that most journeys are fine). And I have absolutely no confidence that I'll be able to get a cuppa and a snack on board!

I am a life long rail enthusiast - but taking everything into account, if I really want to travel with confidence it will be in my car, I'm afraid.
 

Iskra

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This weekend I've spent time in Leicester High Cross shopping centre, Meadowhall in Sheffield, Leeds city centre for a meal and the football yesterday and on Northern Rail between Meadowhall and Leeds. In all of the above places it was starting to feel like normal again, with all the places busy :)
 

Reliablebeam

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I went to Oxford 'open doors' yesterday. A lot of stuff was prebookings only but you could walk straight in a few places. I went into Magdalen and Balliol, both of which felt surprisingly normal - they even let you into the dining halls and churches... Would be interesting to know of the student experience though. I was pleasently surprised given that the university sector has quite high levels of covid zealotry.
 

NorthOxonian

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I went to Oxford 'open doors' yesterday. A lot of stuff was prebookings only but you could walk straight in a few places. I went into Magdalen and Balliol, both of which felt surprisingly normal - they even let you into the dining halls and churches... Would be interesting to know of the student experience though. I was pleasently surprised given that the university sector has quite high levels of covid zealotry.
The vast majority of restrictions have been removed, though a lot of the wording is confusing. For example, some of the information we've received says that masks are mandatory in lectures but that's contradicted by other information we've been sent. In a lot of cases masks are encouraged but not mandatory - so it remains to be seen how many choose to wear them - and this is likely to be the biggest difference between next term and normal university life.

Last year was very miserable but the impression I get is that most of the university staff are very keen on this year being an improvement on that. As far as I know, there are no restrictions on our social life this time - whereas last year interacting with anyone outside your household could get you a large fine even when it was legal (in theory anyway - the more draconian rules were rarely enforced).
 

Reliablebeam

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The vast majority of restrictions have been removed, though a lot of the wording is confusing. For example, some of the information we've received says that masks are mandatory in lectures but that's contradicted by other information we've been sent. In a lot of cases masks are encouraged but not mandatory - so it remains to be seen how many choose to wear them - and this is likely to be the biggest difference between next term and normal university life.

Last year was very miserable but the impression I get is that most of the university staff are very keen on this year being an improvement on that. As far as I know, there are no restrictions on our social life this time - whereas last year interacting with anyone outside your household could get you a large fine even when it was legal (in theory anyway - the more draconian rules were rarely enforced).
Interesting, thanks for the student update! I have colleagues who have joint appointments at Oxford / cambridge, and Cambridge seems to be taking a harder line based on what I'm hearing....!
 
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