1A79 Class 43 powercar on fire 28/02/25

[marks87]

Not sure if this is the best place to post this, but a ScotRail power car caught fire today as it was leaving the Tay Bridge on approach to Dundee.

https://x.com/brackens1/status/1895429949227663648?s=46&t=ok__OkqZ7gTBweIuhUaACA

(X/Twitter post with a photo showing flames coming out of the bottom of an HST power car)

Realtime Trains suggests it’s 43021, which was leading the 0930 Edinburgh-Aberdeen.

Realtime Trains | 1A79 0930 Edinburgh to Tay Bridge South | 28/02/2025

Real-time train running information for 1A79 0930 departure from Edinburgh to Tay Bridge South on 28/02/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Edit: local news link

Train catches fire near Dundee station as emergency services rush to scene

Smoke could be seen pouring from the ScotRail engine.

www.thecourier.co.uk

A train has caught fire near Dundee railway station.

Emergency services have been called to the incident on the line just to the west of the station, near the bridge.

Onlookers told of seeing smoke pouring from the ScotRail engine.

 

[liamf656]

1A79 is currently at a stand near Dundee due to a fire in the powercar, believed to be 43021, as shown in the photo

 

[najaB]

Oh dear. Hope everyone is safe.

That's not going to help with service provision going forward.

 

[aaronspence]

Looks like services north are stopped at Kirkcaldy, what was the point of renewing the crossover at Leuchars a few years back then if they aren’t using it

Just seen it; no longer on fire, it’s just off the tay bridge about 0.5km from Dundee station

 

[marks87]

The Evening Telegraph Facebook page is reporting that passengers are still on board (as of 35 minutes ago), having been moved to the rear coaches.

https://fb.watch/y1C-C8Qxyw/

A train has caught fire near Dundee railway station.
Dozens of passengers are believed to still be on board and have been moved to the rear coaches for safety, with plans being made to evacuate them.

 

[BlueLeanie]

It's barely cleared the Tay Bridge at this point. Would the rear power car be approximately in line with the old signal box?

 

[ott]

The Evening Telegraph Facebook page is reporting that passengers are still on board (as of 35 minutes ago), having been moved to the rear coaches.

As much as it’s probably true, I wouldn’t listen to much that they have to say. If the fire hasn’t spread to the other parts of the train, which by the looks of things it hasn’t… the safest thing to do is to move all passengers to the opposite end of the train where the fire is not burning. It’s much safer than having passengers standing around on a railway line and not knowing what the next steps are.

 

[aaronspence]

LNER going via Perth to Aberdeen

What do they need to shift it? Another class 43? Was just a 158 and 170 in the sidings when I went past sadly, feel for the passengers stuck inside it’s very close to the station

 

[Towers]

LNER going via Perth to Aberdeen

What do they need to shift it? Another class 43? Was just a 158 and 170 in the sidings when I went past sadly, feel for the passengers stuck inside it’s very close to the station

Assuming it’s an isolated fire on a single power car, it ought to be able to drag itself out of the way!

 

[aaronspence]

Assuming some sort of rescue going on now, 1Z98 next to 1A79

 

[chuff chuff]

View attachment 175483

Assuming some sort of rescue going on now, 1Z98 next to 1A79

Yeah one would assume removing the passengers from the failure.

 

[cf111]

View attachment 175483

Assuming some sort of rescue going on now, 1Z98 next to 1A79

Makes sense to do it "train to train" if they can. Bit of a pain to be stuck on the train for so long but presumably there was still hotel power from the unaffected power car so hopefully not too uncomfortable. If safe to do so I'd rather this than a walk across the ballast to an access point.

 

[bahnause]

Makes sense to do it "train to train" if they can. Bit of a pain to be stuck on the train for so long but presumably there was still hotel power from the unaffected power car so hopefully not too uncomfortable. If safe to do so I'd rather this than a walk across the ballast to an access point.

First thing we‘d have to shut down in a case of fire would be the aircon. On modern units a fire alarm would trigger this automatically.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

As much as it’s probably true, I wouldn’t listen to much that they have to say. If the fire hasn’t spread to the other parts of the train, which by the looks of things it hasn’t… the safest thing to do is to move all passengers to the opposite end of the train where the fire is not burning. It’s much safer than having passengers standing around on a railway line and not knowing what the next steps are.

Your first post I see. Welcome to the forum. Looking forward to more of your contributions.

 

[aaronspence]

Rescue train offloaded platform 2, 1A79 was moved to the sidings not long after that.

 

[driverd]

Assuming it’s an isolated fire on a single power car, it ought to be able to drag itself out of the way!

From the pics, it looks as though it's either the batts or just on top of the battery boxes, so I wouldn't be too surprised if the crew would be very reluctant to do anything with the electrics in the lead power car - that being the case, a forward movement would be out of the question.

Also, I can't see any controllers taking a chance on parking a burning power car in a station in a cutting (with buildings directly above platforms) for risk of fire spreading.

 

[Horizon22]

From the pics, it looks as though it's either the batts or just on top of the battery boxes, so I wouldn't be too surprised if the crew would be very reluctant to do anything with the electrics in the lead power car - that being the case, a forward movement would be out of the question.

Also, I can't see any controllers taking a chance on parking a burning power car in a station in a cutting (with buildings directly above platforms) for risk of fire spreading.

Nor is trying to evacuate to track on what appears to be a viaduct going to be a preferable option.

 

[JamesT]

Looks like services north are stopped at Kirkcaldy, what was the point of renewing the crossover at Leuchars a few years back then if they aren’t using it

Detraining everyone at Kirkcaldy doesn't involved them all going over a bridge to get to the bus.

 

[ott]

Your first post I see. Welcome to the forum. Looking forward to more of your contributions.

Thank you!

 

[marks87]

Nor is trying to evacuate to track on what appears to be a viaduct going to be a preferable option.

The Dundee Courier has posted a video showing the evacuation was to track, with passengers walking to a waiting Class 170:

Passengers being evacuated after Dundee train fire

content.jwplatform.com

(Link is to a video showing passengers leaving the HST and walking back to a waiting Class 170)

 

[Horizon22]

The Dundee Courier has posted a video showing the evacuation was to track, with passengers walking to a waiting Class 170:

Passengers being evacuated after Dundee train fire

content.jwplatform.com

(Link is to a video showing passengers leaving the HST and walking back to a waiting Class 170)

It's still not all the way back down the viaduct to the nearest access point / station.

 

[MentorMaster]

Nor is trying to evacuate to track on what appears to be a viaduct going to be a preferable option.

While it appears to be a viaduct, it's not actually. It's right at the end of the Tay Bridge, with a gradient down to the same level as the station and the tracks from Perth.

If they'd been stopped 100 feet back then they would have been on the bridge, which makes me wonder if the driver became aware of the fire and refused to stop on the bridge. (Is the signal box at the other end of the bridge still manned? The signaller there may have raised the alarm).

 

[chuff chuff]

While it appears to be a viaduct, it's not actually. It's right at the end of the Tay Bridge, with a gradient down to the same level as the station and the tracks from Perth.

If they'd been stopped 100 feet back then they would have been on the bridge, which makes me wonder if the driver became aware of the fire and refused to stop on the bridge. (Is the signal box at the other end of the bridge still manned? The signaller there may have raised the alarm).

Yeah taybridge south is still open.

 

[marks87]

It's still not all the way back down the viaduct to the nearest access point / station.

Oh yes, absolutely - I was adding further detail, not contradicting!

There is a track access at the end of the bridge, from/into a Tesco car park of all places. But while it's a short distance in railway terms, it would have been very difficult for passengers. So train-to-track-to-train was a sensible option.

While it appears to be a viaduct, it's not actually. It's right at the end of the Tay Bridge, with a gradient down to the same level as the station and the tracks from Perth.

If they'd been stopped 100 feet back then they would have been on the bridge, which makes me wonder if the driver became aware of the fire and refused to stop on the bridge. (Is the signal box at the other end of the bridge still manned? The signaller there may have raised the alarm).

There is actually a short "platform" on the bridge itself. If they had stopped further back, I wonder if it would have been possible to use that to facilitate an evacuation? It would have meant for a more level alighting/boarding, although I accept there may be health and safety considerations around its use by passengers. It also would have needed the rescue unit to have come in behind the HST, which I would imagine could have presented its own set of challenges.

(Video shows a cab ride across the Tay Bridge, with the start time set showing the short platforms at the Dundee end).

 

[Towers]

From the pics, it looks as though it's either the batts or just on top of the battery boxes, so I wouldn't be too surprised if the crew would be very reluctant to do anything with the electrics in the lead power car - that being the case, a forward movement would be out of the question.

Also, I can't see any controllers taking a chance on parking a burning power car in a station in a cutting (with buildings directly above platforms) for risk of fire spreading.

Close the cocks, detach the errant powercarand away you go! Unless there’s damage around the couplers of course. I hate to be “one of those people”, but as always with these situations on today’s railway you wonder whether common sense solutions were put on the Too Difficult pile in favour of doing something more faffy! Anyway, all academic now!

Does SR have sufficient spare powercars (it’d be rather bizarre if they didn’t, given how many were available!) to be able to accept that this one is a scrapper, or no?

 

[scotraildriver]

Close the cocks, detach the errant powercarand away you go! Unless there’s damage around the couplers of course. I hate to be “one of those people”, but as always with these situations on today’s railway you wonder whether common sense solutions were put on the Too Difficult pile in favour of doing something more faffy! Anyway, all academic now!

Does SR have sufficient spare powercars (it’d be rather bizarre if they didn’t, given how many were available!) to be able to accept that this one is a scrapper, or no?

Which would have left a stranded power car blocking the main line on a falling gradient for goodness knows how long until it could be rescued. Better to evacuate the passengers whilst the damage was being assessed then moving the whole train out the way ASAP. Which is exactly what happened.

 

[chuff chuff]

Close the cocks, detach the errant powercarand away you go! Unless there’s damage around the couplers of course. I hate to be “one of those people”, but as always with these situations on today’s railway you wonder whether common sense solutions were put on the Too Difficult pile in favour of doing something more faffy! Anyway, all academic now!

Does SR have sufficient spare powercars (it’d be rather bizarre if they didn’t, given how many were available!) to be able to accept that this one is a scrapper, or no?

Detach errant power car and away you go ....go where that was the lead power car.

 

[38Cto15E]

Was the power car able to extinguish the fire with it's own system or did the fire service put the fire out?
Secondly, once the fire was out could the rear power car not power the train at walking pace into Dundee station to evacuate the passengers?

 

[driverd]

Nor is trying to evacuate to track on what appears to be a viaduct going to be a preferable option.

I wasn't suggesting this personally - train to train seems the best solution as avoids any need to bring the warm power car near a station.

Close the cocks, detach the errant powercarand away you go! Unless there’s damage around the couplers of course. I hate to be “one of those people”, but as always with these situations on today’s railway you wonder whether common sense solutions were put on the Too Difficult pile in favour of doing something more faffy! Anyway, all academic now!

As others have pointed out, though, you're then left with a stranded power car, and have the inconvenience of a wrong direction move all the way to wherever the nearest crossover is. Probably the more challenging solution, if seemingly more obvious!

Does SR have sufficient spare powercars (it’d be rather bizarre if they didn’t, given how many were available!) to be able to accept that this one is a scrapper, or no?

The damage may well be quite minimal to be honest, it hardly looks all consuming. Guess would be gunk (technical term of course) build up somewhere warm, or battery/electrical issues.

 

[Millisle]

Oh yes, absolutely - I was adding further detail, not contradicting!

There is a track access at the end of the bridge, from/into a Tesco car park of all places. But while it's a short distance in railway terms, it would have been very difficult for passengers. So train-to-track-to-train was a sensible option.



There is actually a short "platform" on the bridge itself. If they had stopped further back, I wonder if it would have been possible to use that to facilitate an evacuation? It would have meant for a more level alighting/boarding, although I accept there may be health and safety considerations around its use by passengers. It also would have needed the rescue unit to have come in behind the HST, which I would imagine could have presented its own set of challenges.

(Video shows a cab ride across the Tay Bridge, with the start time set showing the short platforms at the Dundee end).

Dundee Esplanade station, closed 1939.