1st Gen DMU's, brake vans in multi formations.

delt1c

On Moderation
Joined
4 Apr 2008
Messages
1,687
As I understand it ...


The WR used the Derby suburban design drawings quite extensively, except for their own Swindon-design class 120. It's a bit difficult keeping up with the TOPS class numbers, as they are in anything but construction order, but whatever. The 116 were the original Derby suburban cars for the WR, in fact just a variation on the first steel cars, the 50000 Class 114, same body construction and length but with suburban layout and doors etc. Derby ran two production lines side by side through the dmu build era, the short frame, alloy body, low density cars, and the long frame, steel body, high (normally) density ones. Both types had the same cab ends (fibreglass, I believe). Later the cab changed a bit with the repositioning of the destination, and the high level 4-character indicator.

When it came to dieselising the WR London services, Derby was fully occupied, so Swindon sent the Derby drawings to Pressed Steel in Glasgow for the 117s. Pressed Steel had not done dmus before, although they did quite a lot of Mk 1 hauled stock and vans, and so Swindon guided them. They had nicer interiors, including toilets in the trailers. Then again another 15 sets were needed at Plymouth, and the diagrams were sent again to Birmingham RCW, the 118s, the same ones presumably as they are notably difficult to tell apart, and quite different to anything else BRCW did.

The single cars (and their associated driving trailers) were the 122s by Gloucester RCW, these came first, done alongside the comparable Gloucester Cross-Country 119s (which themselves were built from the Swindon Cross-Country 120 drawings, with the Derby cab); Gloucester had been a longstanding Swindon subcontractor, and indeed had built the later GWR single railcars in 1940. However they were a suburban interior. Goodness knows why it was thought that a service that only ran to a single car needed maximum density seating. The 121s came later, from Pressed Steel, and again were just a permutation of previous drawings. It's a strange point that the only dmus on the WR, coming from multiple builders, which did not have the Derby front were the Class 120 units built by Swindon themselves. Nor would the WR have any truck with low density, lightweight cars.
2 visible differences between the 117 and 118 were the buffers and the shape of the headcode box
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Sprinter107

Member
Joined
26 Mar 2019
Messages
526
The Swindon designs had quite straight-sided profiles compared to the noticeable tumblehome curve on Mk1s
Yes, they definitely did. I read somewhere that the 119s and 120s definitely had more of a Hawksworth profile than a Mark 1 profile.
 

hexagon789

Established Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
10,356
Location
Glasgow
Yes, they definitely did. I read somewhere that the 119s and 120s definitely had more of a Hawksworth profile than a Mark 1 profile.
The 123s are also very slab sided when you see a side profile yet are often compared to Mk1 stock.

Among the DMUs, the 105s always seemed the closest to the Mk1 in appearance.
 

Sprinter107

Member
Joined
26 Mar 2019
Messages
526
The 123s are also very slab sided when you see a side profile yet are often compared to Mk1 stock.

Among the DMUs, the 105s always seemed the closest to the Mk1 in appearance.
Yes, i think your right. Didnt Cravens also build mark 1 coaches, so maybe thats why.
 

Western 52

Member
Joined
19 Jun 2020
Messages
65
Location
Burry Port
Fantastic shot, saw 3 cars with 2 Brakes but never a 3 with Brakes, was this one of the gangwayed 116's?
Yes, by this time I think all the surviving 116s were gangwayed, although most / all were built without this feature. On the valley lines, I think they converted them to gangwayed once stations became unstaffed and guards sold tickets on the train - many of the units had notices telling passengers how to use "Paytrains". I remember in the 1970s the ticket machines used on the valleys were the type used on buses of that era - I think they were called "setright" machines or something like that? Tickets were on pink rolls.
 

Beebman

Member
Joined
17 Feb 2011
Messages
175
The 123s are also very slab sided when you see a side profile yet are often compared to Mk1 stock.

For some years without any luck I've been searching for a photo of Class 123 buffet trailer 59831 after it was inserted into Class 309 'Clacton' EMU set 616 to replace a griddle car which had developed an underframe fault. If any photo does exist I think it should demonstrate the profile difference compared to Mk1 stock.
 

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
12,261
All this stuff makes me think of Sprinters.

Just random formations of compatible vehicles all mashed together in various combinations.
 

Sprinter107

Member
Joined
26 Mar 2019
Messages
526
All this stuff makes me think of Sprinters.

Just random formations of compatible vehicles all mashed together in various combinations.
I've worked half a 156 set with a 153, and half a 158 coupled with a 153. Both sets taking their temporary set number from the 156/158. FGW had half a 150/2 coupled with a 153 for a while.
 

hexagon789

Established Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
10,356
Location
Glasgow
For some years without any luck I've been searching for a photo of Class 123 buffet trailer 59831 after it was inserted into Class 309 'Clacton' EMU set 616 to replace a griddle car which had developed an underframe fault. If any photo does exist I think it should demonstrate the profile difference compared to Mk1 stock.
Now that's interesting, because I'm relatively sure I've seen a picture on Flickr of a 309 and someone pointed out in the comments that it was the set with the ex-123 buffet or something like that.

I may have added it to my favourites on Flickr but that stands at well over 20,000 images now so would take some time to look through.
 

Beebman

Member
Joined
17 Feb 2011
Messages
175
Now that's interesting, because I'm relatively sure I've seen a picture on Flickr of a 309 and someone pointed out in the comments that it was the set with the ex-123 buffet or something like that.

I may have added it to my favourites on Flickr but that stands at well over 20,000 images now so would take some time to look through.

I've had yet another trawl through Flickr and this time I've found a 1973 photo of unit 616 at Colchester - there's nothing mentioned in the title or comments but the window layout of the third vehicle is definitely that of a 123 buffet:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/5641720376/

The photo clarity isn't particularly good, however the shallower windows can just about be seen although it's not really clear enough to show the difference in the side profile.
 

hexagon789

Established Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
10,356
Location
Glasgow
I've had yet another trawl through Flickr and this time I've found a 1973 photo of unit 616 at Colchester - there's nothing mentioned in the title or comments but the window layout of the third vehicle is definitely that of a 123 buffet:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/5641720376/

The photo clarity isn't particularly good, however the shallower windows can just about be seen although it's not really clear enough to show the difference in the side profile.
It wasn't that one, but I agree that is the ex-123 buffet - you also can make out the B4 instead of Commonwealth bogies
 

dubscottie

Member
Joined
4 Apr 2010
Messages
844
A class 126 buffet was used on the Strathspey Railway as hauled stock for many years until scrapped.
The Swindon units were more slab sided than Mk1s.

Pic not mine.
 

hexagon789

Established Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
10,356
Location
Glasgow
A class 126 buffet was used on the Strathspey Railway as hauled stock for many years until scrapped.
The Swindon units were more slab sided than Mk1s.

Pic not mine.
One still exists at Bo'ness, last one saw it was still under refurbishment. It is the last surviving vehicle of the original batch of 79xxx DMUs built for the Edinburgh & Glasgow service, the other cars which make up the present 3-car set are all from the later Ayrshire batch.
 

Top