2022 Conservative Leadership Election - Liz Truss chosen as party leader (and subsequent reshuffle)

[61653 HTAFC]

I didn't think that anyone would vote Badenoch on this forum!

Can I ask why?

I'm not a conservative (whether big or small C) but looking in from the outside, Kemi Badenoch would be the toughest opponent for Kier Starmer. She doesn't mince her words and doesn't do identity politics, but being of Nigerian descent would go a fair way to defeating the "evil racist Tories" line.

To be honest, I'd be satisfied with anyone except Rishi Sunak, whose loyalty to the UK is certainly under question what with him holding a US Green Card until recently, and his wife being a non-dom for tax purposes.

 

[Class 466]

Also not a Tory voter, but I'd personally like to see Penny Mordaunt win out. Or if I'm honest, anyone other than Rishi Sunak, ever since that COVID briefing where he said 'Thanks PM' I've had a general dislike for him

 

[Wynd]

It is gratifying to see im not alone in my view on Rishi.

He is absolutely not to be trusted.

 

[J-2739]

Why?
She's a decent commons performer, decent orator and has some decent ideas. Granted there are downsides such as her support for the disastrous lockdowns (not alone in that respect) but of those standing she'd be my choice.

Whilst I highly doubt she'll make it on to the ballet to members, that will be Rishi plus 1, she is the one I would happily vote for.

As for Rishi, a big no from me. Close your eyes and he could be Ed Milliband speaking.

Can I ask why?

I'm not a conservative (whether big or small C) but looking in from the outside, Kemi Badenoch would be the toughest opponent for Kier Starmer. She doesn't mince her words and doesn't do identity politics, but being of Nigerian descent would go a fair way to defeating the "evil racist Tories" line.

To be honest, I'd be satisfied with anyone except Rishi Sunak, whose loyalty to the UK is certainly under question what with him holding a US Green Card until recently, and his wife being a non-dom for tax purposes.

Not to do with any personal opinions that I have on her (and there are some aspects of her that I like and others I don't)! I guess I just didn't think that her vision and (admittedly extreme) opinions would resonate with so many of the members that tend to come to these threads that she'd come second placed!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is gratifying to see im not alone in my view on Rishi.

He is absolutely not to be trusted.

I don't trust him either. I would go to the point that I think anyone who has ever been in Boris's Cabinet for his entire tenure should be disqualified as they are complicit in his lies and dishonour.

 

[TheBigD]

Not to do with any personal opinions that I have on her (and there are some aspects of her that I like and others I don't)! I guess I just didn't think that her vision and (admittedly extreme) opinions would resonate with so many of the members that tend to come to these threads that she'd come second placed!

What extreme options would they be?

 

[MikeWM]

The only sitting conservative MP I think I'd be at all enthusiastic about is David Davis, but he's not running, so that doesn't help.

I have to say I view all the candidates through the prism of the last couple of years and the likelihood of such things happening again. That's more important to me than any other issue.


- Jeremy Hunt did a terrible job as health secretary and seems to have wanted a zero-Covid policy and earlier harder lockdowns, so a hard no.

- Equally I'd rule out anyone who had a big hand in the last two years of Covid policy from Government, so no to Sunak or Zahawi.

- Truss has had a really odd performance over the past few months - you'd think foreign secretary would be a big public role when there is a European war happening, but she seems to have left pretty much everything to Ben Wallace. That rings alarm bells.

- Tugendhat suggested the unvaccinated may be banned from workplaces. So no to him.

- While Mordaunt looks ok on paper, putting my tin-foil hat on I'm very put off by the book she wrote last year (here) having a foreword written by Bill Gates, who she seems very chummy with, and an approving review by Tony Blair...

- Which leaves Braverman and Badenoch. Not a great choice but Badenoch seems the better of the two - I note on Twitter reports of meetings where she was opposing vaccine passports, for example - and she also seems to present herself more confidently.


So, without any great enthusiasm, I guess Badenoch is the least worst of the bunch.

It looks likely to be Mordaunt in any event though, so let's hope she isn't too in thrall to the ideas of Blair and Gates.

 

[J-2739]

What extreme options would they be?

Not me personally, but I though that more people would have been repelled by her strong stance on "culture wars" and "cancel culture", which are hot topics of conservation. It's just interesting to see. I used to think this forum had a much stronger left wing tendency, so it is quite enlightening to see her come second place in this poll!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Not me personally, but I though that more people would have been repelled by her strong stance on "culture wars" and "cancel culture", which are hot topics of conservation. It's just interesting to see. I used to think this forum had a much stronger left wing tendency, so it is quite enlightening to see her come second place in this poll!

The forum possibly has less of a left wing tendency than it used to. "The Left" has in my opinion lost its way a bit- with a hyper-focus on particularly niche issues, and a worrying tendency to "tar and feather" those that disagree rather than having a sensible discussion.
Among the left-wing twitterati there seems to be a reluctance to discuss things like the grooming gangs in various towns and cities, with some branding the whole thing a far-right conspiracy theory. I always thought one of the left's mottos was "believe all women"...
I didn't leave the Left. The Left left me.

 

[MikeWM]

Hunt and Zahawi out in the first round. They were probably the 'worst' two of the eight in my opinion, so not a terrible start.

 

[Mojo]

Hunt and Zahawi out in the first round. They were probably the 'worst' two of the eight in my opinion, so not a terrible start.

That's a relief to see the back of Hunt. There were certainly a lot of rumours abound this morning that Rishi was trying to get Hunt through to the membership vote, knowing full well that he would lose it meaning Rishi would get elected. Certainly Hunt the most unpleasant of the main candidates for anyone who values their freedom and way of life.

 

[GusB]

Hunt and Zahawi out in the first round. They were probably the 'worst' two of the eight in my opinion, so not a terrible start.

I'm glad to see Zahawi out. Watching him squirm when being interviewed by Kay Burleigh, while entertaining, wasn't a good look.

 

[TheBigD]

For those interested...

Badenoch – 40
Braverman – 32
Hunt – 18 ELIMINATED
Mordaunt – 67
Sunak – 88
Truss – 50
Tugendhat – 37
Zahawi – 25 ELIMINATED

 

[DarloRich]

That's a relief to see the back of Hunt. There were certainly a lot of rumours abound this morning that Rishi was trying to get Hunt through to the membership vote, knowing full well that he would lose it meaning Rishi would get elected. Certainly Hunt the most unpleasant of the main candidates for anyone who values their freedom and way of life.

Could you expand on this point?

 

[DC1989]

Badenoch seems to be more interested in telling private american companies like Ben and Jerrys what to do rather than any real issues facing the British public

Which is all the more interesting as she presents herself as a small state conservative - let the free market do what it wants (unless it's something I disagree with)

Surprised so many on here have voted for her.

 

[TwoYellas]

Not a tory but I was hoping for Sunak as I thought maybe he's the most socialist out of them. But now I'm hearing of these machiavellian moves he may be making - not so sure now.

Anyone know which ones are engaging in crafty moves such as leaks of negative stories of rivals?

Glad Zahawi is gone he seemed a little to desperate for the role in an interview I saw of him.

 

[TheBigD]

Could you expand on this point?

Tactical voting by Rishi's supporters. Rishi is popular amongst MPs, but not the membership. Rishi will want to ensure that he is up against a no hoper when it goes to the membership, as it currently stands, he would lose to most of them. I'd expect more tactical voting from MPs so that they get the result they want, not what the membership want!

 

[Cowley]

It is 11 at the moment.

I agree. Plus he doesn't wrap himself in the flag (even though, it could be argued, he may have reason to do so). If anyone does that, as far as I am concerned, they need to show that they've actually done something of note that justifies it, otherwise just acknowledge it and get on with the job like the rest of us. Also I've looked at his list of backers, and there MPs there who I have time for and they will know him better than me.

I read that Zahawi and Braverman would offer Johnson a place in their cabinet, that excludes them as far as I am concerned as their judgement is clearly flawed, the man you said at PMQs "I'll leave with my head held high. (Fortunately, it is unlikely he would accept - books to write, speeches to give, and goodness knows what else if past form is anything to go by.)

Yes that was kind of my take on it but it was interesting to read the view put forward by @AlterEgo.
Thanks both.

 

[DarloRich]

Tactical voting by Rishi's supporters. Rishi is popular amongst MPs, but not the membership. Rishi will want to ensure that he is up against a no hoper when it goes to the membership, as it currently stands, he would lose to most of them. I'd expect more tactical voting from MPs so that they get the result they want, not what the membership want!

I meant tbe final sentance of the quote

 

[Class 466]

It's between these three I reckon:
Mordaunt
Sunak
Truss

 

[WatcherZero]

The trap the Conservatives are falling in to is by seeking to choose someone who appeals to the hard right of the party and abandoning any attempt to woo Northern voters or centrist policies, while also promoting illiberalism, they choose a leader who appeals to the party but not the nation.

 

[TheBigD]

It's between these three I reckon:
Mordaunt
Sunak
Truss

I'm not so sure. MPs want Rishi, but both mordant and truss would beat him when the vote goes to the membership. Rishi and his supportersi will be working hard to ensure that he isn't up against them.

 

[DC1989]

The trap the Conservatives are falling in to is by seeking to choose someone who appeals to the hard right of the party and abandoning any attempt to woo Northern voters or centrist policies, while also promoting illiberalism, they choose a leader who appeals to the party but not the nation.

I think that they are of the opinion that going hard right will keep the red wall voters - the fact that it loses them seats in places like Richmond they don't seem to mind.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The forum possibly has less of a left wing tendency than it used to. "The Left" has in my opinion lost its way a bit- with a hyper-focus on particularly niche issues, and a worrying tendency to "tar and feather" those that disagree rather than having a sensible discussion.
Among the left-wing twitterati there seems to be a reluctance to discuss things like the grooming gangs in various towns and cities, with some branding the whole thing a far-right conspiracy theory. I always thought one of the left's mottos was "believe all women"...
I didn't leave the Left. The Left left me.

Twitter is just a sounding board where you talk to your own. I find the cycling campaigners on there infuriating, and I'm a cyclist, for example.

If it wasn't for its useful customer services role I'd be getting rid.

 

[WatcherZero]

Rishi and his supporters are actually trying to support Mordaunts campaign as they feel she will suffer in a longer debate due to inexperience (shes popular with the wider party only because of her being unknown), the candidate they really fear is Truss.
Hard right of the party are desperate to get Truss, Braverman or Badenoch on the final ballot and trying to work out which candidate to rally behind.

 

[TheBigD]

Rishi and his supporters are actually trying to support Mordaunts campaign as they feel she will suffer in a longer debate due to inexperience, the candidate they really fear is Truss.
Hard right of the party are desperate to get Truss, Braverman or Badenoch on the final ballot and trying to work out which candidate to rally behind.

Hard right? Truss is a former libdem!

 

[WatcherZero]

I know Truss personally, she has no views of her own. She simply chases popularism and the popularism shes chasing is being the hardest on Brexit (despite originally voting against!).
Switching parties only demonstrates her lack of political convictions.

Just watch her getting off on applause.

 

[Mojo]

I meant tbe final sentance of the quote

Hunt has been exceptionally pro-restriction throughout the period in which the government and media have been promoting them. Continually called in Parliament and the media for more restrictions. Has been working with “Independent Sage” (a pro-restriction group), and has appeared on their videos smirking and saying how great things are in China because they seal people in their apartments and send police round to check up on them. A thoroughly dangerous and vile individual.

 

[DarloRich]

Hunt has been exceptionally pro-restriction throughout the period in which the government and media have been promoting them. Continually called in Parliament and the media for more restrictions. Has been working with “Independent Sage” (a pro-restriction group), and has appeared on their videos smirking and saying how great things are in China because they seal people in their apartments and send police round to check up on them. A thoroughly dangerous and vile individual.

thanks - i thought it would be covid based. That must surely be an exceptional situation. Do any of his other policy positions support your view?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I'm glad to see Zahawi out. Watching him squirm when being interviewed by Kay Burleigh, while entertaining, wasn't a good look.

yes i will be celebrating but until i know he's consigned to the back benches i will refrain