222 4-car sets to become 5-car by May 22

[BJames]

I’m told that 222005 and 222101 are being taken out of service this weekend to have their formations altered

Fantastic, thanks for the update.

Do we have any more concrete info in terms of how these carriages are being reformed? Will the 7 car have two first class carriages taken out?

 

[liamf656]

Fantastic, thanks for the update.

Do we have any more concrete info in terms of how these carriages are being reformed? Will the 7 car have two first class carriages taken out?

I’m not sure on exact details but I believe one first and one standard is being taken out of 005/006 and each put into 101-104. From the sounds of it it’s going to create a nightmare in terms of seating arrangements/reservations as I’m not sure if anything is being changed inside the coaches themselves

 

[Helvellyn]

given that 222's have badly arranged buffet/galley/parcels areas it will not be at all difficult for an 810 with properly managed seating to provide 20% Improvement on capacity.More so if you alter the ratio of standard to first to something more realistic.

I gather the 810's are earmarked for 250 standard + 50 first.
That's quite a jump from a 5 car meridian 267 total(of which 70 are first)

It's 50 First Class seats, not 70, with 192 Standard Class seats plus however many tip-up seats there are in the vestibules.

 

[liamf656]

222005 is now in five coach formation at Etches Park. It looks to have had a standard class and a first class coach removed (B and G?)

222101 has had its formation separated so that a coach from 005 can be inserted, this is ongoing

 

[LowLevel]

60443 (first class vehicle) is parked out of the way so presumably waiting to go into another unit. 222005 has several bays of seating in the intermediate first class vehicle with first class window stickers removed.

Standard class vehicle removed appears to have been put into 222101.

 

[Andy Pacer]

According to RTT 222005 and 222101 are back in service, and 222005 should in fact form my train to London this morning, which will now be short formed.

 

[47444]

For clarity, which coach has been moved to 222101 and what is its resulting formation (i.e. between which existing coaches has the ex 222005 vehicle been inserted)?

Thnx

 

[JonathanH]

For clarity, which coach has been moved to 222101 and what is its resulting formation (i.e. between which existing coaches has the ex 222005 vehicle been inserted)?

Thnx

The messages above suggest that the new formations of 222005 and 222101 should be
222005 60165-60555-60625-60347-60245
222101 60191-60565-60681-60571-60271

ie that 60565 has been moved between the sets.

However, when 222007 was reduced it was the 6055x coach that was removed.

Perhaps @Andy Pacer can confirm by sight.

 

[Andy Pacer]

The messages above suggest that the new formations of 222005 and 222101 should be
222005 60165-60555-60625-60347-60245
222101 60191-60565-60681-60571-60271

ie that 60565 has been moved between the sets.

However, when 222007 was reduced it was the 6055x coach that was removed.

Perhaps @Andy Pacer can confirm by sight.

Unable to confirm or deny, 222005 has been taken out of service due to 'vandalism'(TM has since said it was a broken windscreen), so it has been set swapped with 222002.
The diagram for 222005 on RTT showed two full 1st class coaches rather than one plus the 1st/standard combi found on the other 5 car units if that is of any help.

 

[class 9]

Passed a 222 coming off Central Rivers Depot yesterday, en rote to Etches Park, think it was a 5 car.
Wonder what it was doing there?

 

[BJames]

Unable to confirm or deny, 222005 has been taken out of service due to 'vandalism'(TM has since said it was a broken windscreen), so it has been set swapped with 222002.
The diagram for 222005 on RTT showed two full 1st class coaches rather than one plus the 1st/standard combi found on the other 5 car units if that is of any help.

Does anyone know whether any seating is intended to be changed around/declassified within these - or is it remaining as 3x standard 2x first class on these sets?

 

[47444]

The messages above suggest that the new formations of 222005 and 222101 should be
222005 60165-60555-60625-60347-60245
222101 60191-60565-60681-60571-60271

ie that 60565 has been moved between the sets.

However, when 222007 was reduced it was the 6055x coach that was removed.

Perhaps @Andy Pacer can confirm by sight.

Thanks

 

[Kite159]

Does anyone know whether any seating is intended to be changed around/declassified within these - or is it remaining as 3x standard 2x first class on these sets?

You will hope it will get changed, but knowing EMR they will take the cheapest option and leave the seating as it is, even though it means far too much First Class.

 

[skyhigh]

The messages above suggest that the new formations of 222005 and 222101 should be
222005 60165-60555-60625-60347-60245
222101 60191-60565-60681-60571-60271

ie that 60565 has been moved between the sets.

However, when 222007 was reduced it was the 6055x coach that was removed.

Perhaps @Andy Pacer can confirm by sight.

Had a look on Gemini and the formations are listed there as:
222005 60165-60565-60625-60347-60245
222101 60191-60555-60681-60571-60271

 

[43055]

222101 is also currently out and will form the 1900 from Sheffield to London. 102 is the only other 222/1 out today according to RTT.

 

[aleandrail]

Passed a 222 coming off Central Rivers Depot yesterday, en rote to Etches Park, think it was a 5 car.
Wonder what it was doing there?

all 222s are having underframe cleans done at Central rivers

 

[Mugby]

You will hope it will get changed, but knowing EMR they will take the cheapest option and leave the seating as it is, even though it means far too much First Class.

I think you're absolutely right, unfortunately!

Several people on here said the 170s would be re-seated, re-upholstered, First Class seats removed etc. but they're all still running with the seating unchanged.

 

[47444]

Had a look on Gemini and the formations are listed there as:
222005 60165-60565-60625-60347-60245
222101 60191-60555-60681-60571-60271

Thank you

 

[Bill57p9]

I think you're absolutely right, unfortunately!

Several people on here said the 170s would be re-seated, re-upholstered, First Class seats removed etc. but they're all still running with the seating unchanged.

To be fair, though the seating is unchanged* the "first class" areas on the EMR 170/4s I have seen have all been clearly labelled "standard" to show declassification.

* unchanged = very, very tired

 

[QSK19]

Several people on here said the 170s would be re-seated, re-upholstered, First Class seats removed etc. but they're all still running with the seating unchanged.

I’m hoping the true explanation is that they’re waiting to see how things go seating-wise once the Auroras are introduced - as in, they want to make sure that everything is right with them before rolling the seating out across the 170s.

The cynic in me thinks that the DfT are yet again shafting the East Midlands by not authorising any refurbishment of the 170s, 360s or 158s; but I retain hope that they will get the refurbishment that they and EMR’s passengers so richly deserve. I hope this also extends to repairing any defective 222 seating.

 

[Kite159]

I’m hoping the true explanation is that they’re waiting to see how things go seating-wise once the Auroras are introduced - as in, they want to make sure that everything is right with them before rolling the seating out across the 170s.

The cynic in me thinks that the DfT are yet again shafting the East Midlands by not authorising any refurbishment of the 170s, 360s or 158s; but I retain hope that they will get the refurbishment that they and EMR’s passengers so richly deserve. I hope this also extends to repairing any defective 222 seating.

I noticed that last June when in the East Midlands, a few of the seat cushions on the 222s had collapsed. Similar to some of the old Northern 158s before they got new seats.

 

[class 9]

all 222s are having underframe cleans done

That explains it, cheers.

 

[westcoaster]

I noticed that last June when in the East Midlands, a few of the seat cushions on the 222s had collapsed. Similar to some of the old Northern 158s before they got new seats.

Been like that for years and very frayed, even split open.

 

[43055]

Does anyone know whether any seating is intended to be changed around/declassified within these - or is it remaining as 3x standard 2x first class on these sets?

Walking into Derby earlier and 222005 was alongside the sheds with first class markings along the full length of the intermediate first class vehicle. Looks like it's going to be a fleet of 5 cars but with 4 different configurations of first to standard ratios.

According to RTT 222103 has the other vehicle out of 222005 and will be with 222101 on the 1900 from Sheffield to London today. The image shows the first class line going into the center vehicle of the unit so that is almost a 50/50 split of first to standard.

 

[liamf656]

Walking into Derby earlier and 222005 was alongside the sheds with first class markings along the full length of the intermediate first class vehicle. Looks like it's going to be a fleet of 5 cars but with 4 different configurations of first to standard ratios.

That sounds about right. We’ll have the following configurations:
- 222001-004 (7 car) Standard A/B/C/D and first F/G/H
- 222005/6 Standard A/B/C and first D/G
- 222007-023 Standard A/B/C, and a third of D, first class in the rest of D and G
- 222101-102 with Standard A/B/C and two thirds of D, first class in the rest of D and G
- 222103-104 with Standard A/B and two thirds of C, and first class in the rest of C, D and G

This means 103/104 will have a whole coach of extra first class compared to 101/102, and I wonder what the various configurations will do to the reservation system. Maybe the different fleets will be rostered (if possible) on set circuits?. So far 102 has only done Melton Mowbray trips since becoming a 5 car

 

[Kite159]

The simplest way for the extra 1st class coaches in the 4 coach units will simply permanently declassify it, with stickers saying "this seating is for standard class passengers". At least that gives the seat numbers a boost for 103+104.

Similar to one of the old HST sets (the 'original' EMR ones, not the ex-LNER ones) which had a 1st class coach inserted in the middle of standard class.

 

[DannyMich2018]

I'm on the 19.59 Nott to St Pancras between Leicester and Kettering. The train is not overly busy but stupid that it has 2 full first class coaches which are pretty quiet. I'm sure at least some of the non driving first can be declassified.

 

[Roger B]

That sounds about right. We’ll have the following configurations:
- 222001-004 (7 car) Standard A/B/C/D and first F/G/H
- 222005/6 Standard A/B/C and first D/G
- 222007-023 Standard A/B/C, and a third of D, first class in the rest of D and G
- 222101-102 with Standard A/B/C and two thirds of D, first class in the rest of D and G
- 222103-104 with Standard A/B and two thirds of C, and first class in the rest of C, D and G

This means 103/104 will have a whole coach of extra first class compared to 101/102, and I wonder what the various configurations will do to the reservation system. Maybe the different fleets will be rostered (if possible) on set circuits?. So far 102 has only done Melton Mowbray trips since becoming a 5 car

Thanks Liam, very interesting.
So what's the new formation of 102, and which which unit has it come from? And if the unit that it's come from is now a five car, has another carriage from that unit gone into 104, and if so which one?
With the formations of 221101 and 103 are recorded above, that would seem to complete the changes for now.
Sorry to bombard with so many questions - anyone in the know?

 

[liamf656]

Thanks Liam, very interesting.
So what's the new formation of 102, and which which unit has it come from? And if the unit that it's come from is now a five car, has another carriage from that unit gone into 104, and if so which one?

I’m not 100% sure on coach numbers but you’re right in the fact that 102/104 will both have coaches donated by 006 (101/103 both from 005), the seemingly random choice of units is to ensure that 101/102 both have an extra standard class coach and 103/104 both have an extra first class coach.

It’s also notable that 104 is still in service as a 4 car so that will be reformed very soon. I believe 006 and 102 are out of traffic now for this so it should all be complete very soon.

 

[Roger B]

I’m not 100% sure on coach numbers but you’re right in the fact that 102/104 will both have coaches donated by 006 (101/103 both from 005), the seemingly random choice of units is to ensure that 101/102 both have an extra standard class coach and 103/104 both have an extra first class coach.

It’s also notable that 104 is still in service as a 4 car so that will be reformed very soon. I believe 006 and 102 are out of traffic now for this so it should all be complete very soon.

Thanks Liam - much appreciated. Presumably the corresponding coaches from 006 will go into 102 and 104 as went from 005 into 101 and 103 to give the configurations you listed above in post #85 (copied below) ..

We’ll have the following configurations:
- 222001-004 (7 car) Standard A/B/C/D and first F/G/H
- 222005/6 Standard A/B/C and first D/G
- 222007-023 Standard A/B/C, and a third of D, first class in the rest of D and G
- 222101-102 with Standard A/B/C and two thirds of D, first class in the rest of D and G
- 222103-104 with Standard A/B and two thirds of C, and first class in the rest of C, D and G.

Thanks again