22nd February - Roadmap out of the pandemic, lifting of restrictions.

[island]

I won't be paying anyone else's taxes - that's not even remotely what I suggested.
It doesn't even have to be income tax raises for most of the population; adjusting the system so that large corporations (such as Amazon) and the ultra-rich pay more tax would be ideal.

Easy to say, impossible to implement.

 

[Bikeman78]

For that very reason I suspect the government will keep it illegal for as long as possible/permanently.

Who cares? They can't stop you. There's a tiny chance the Police might spot a car parked outside but if you walk, cycle or take the bus, there is almost zero chance of being caught.

 

[87electric]

With regards to "experts" or "scientists" views in the media or to the "scientific advisors" to Government I say this.... it is so important to know who finances these particular people, who funds their research, etc.... because big money is invested to them from large private corporations. None of them will bite the hand that feeds them. Corporations have far too much influence and power in this world.

BBC bias does exist. They have long played the game of impartiality but in the last year they have been sussed out massively. I don't really like to mention a certain B. Gates but it serves a point. This person does fund the BBC Media Action international charity (you can find it on the BBC website) and this is why you will never see or hear any bad press concerning him via the BBC about this person. They wouldn't dare to. He's very powerful.

 

[Lampshade]

If indoors mixing were permitted, it would be a *huge* morale boost for so many right now (myself included)

Literally all I care about.

 

[Richard Scott]

I won't be paying anyone else's taxes - that's not even remotely what I suggested.
It doesn't even have to be income tax raises for most of the population; adjusting the system so that large corporations (such as Amazon) and the ultra-rich pay more tax would be ideal.

Well, not ideal necessarily, but a damn sight better than any alternative I can think of.

I agree with the Amazon comment, these companies do need to pay their way and got away with paying very little or nothing for too long. Problem with more taxing of ultra rich is they end up moving elsewhere and pay tax in another country leaving us with no tax revenue at all and without paying the wages of the people they employed.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Quite simply no. As a teacher I can tell you that is even more disruptive than remote learning. All primary school children back on the 8th, with key year groups in secondary returning also.
Other year groups should return after the Easter holidays.

According to Guardian govt contemplating an all years returnon 8th March which the Prof Whitty ain't happy about.

A row has broken out over Boris Johnson’s hopes for a “big bang” reopening of schools, as sources claimed it had run into resistance from Prof Chris Whitty.

The chief medical officer for England was said to be reluctant to put his name to a public show of support for the policy this week, though the government has insisted he has no reservations. Education sources had told the Guardian that Whitty was “very unhappy” with the idea of all 10 million children and staff returning to schools in England on 8 March.

 

[bramling]

According to Guardian govt contemplating an all years returnon 8th March which the Prof Whitty ain't happy about.

So BJ and Whitty aren’t on the best terms. I don’t think this comes as any surprise.

 

[chris11256]

The sun report it’ll be June before indoor household mixing is allowed along with overnight stays. Although they say they two households might be able to meet outside over the Easter weekend. Doesn’t say whether that’ll be permanent or for Easter only.

I assume the Government is banking on April & May having good Weather.

It could be May before pubs resume indoor service along with the rule of six – while the beauty industry and hairdressers, hopefully, will be open fully then.

June should usher in indoor mixing between households and overnight stays may resume – with holidays back on in the UK

Usual paper caveats.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

So BJ and Whitty aren’t on the best terms. I don’t think this comes as any surprise.

It also tells me that educational settings were a real driver of transmission last Autumn despite BoJo telling us it was safe but yet again he's hoist by his own petard by declaring the 8th March. That said its key to restore education but it seems to me they haven't considered the risks on transmissions and defined a strategy to manage them.

 

[HSTEd]

It also tells me that educational settings were a real driver of transmission last Autumn despite BoJo telling us it was safe but yet again he's hoist by his own petard by declaring the 8th March. That said its key to restore education but it seems to me they haven't considered the risks on transmissions and defined a strategy to manage them.

More likely Whitty knows that he can stretch this process out a few more weeks if he insists on a phased reopening of schools, since he will be able to deflect demands for reopening of other things whilst it is ongoing.

 

[Yew]

The sun report it’ll be June before indoor household mixing is allowed along with overnight stays. Although they say they two households might be able to meet outside over the Easter weekend. Doesn’t say whether that’ll be permanent or for Easter only.

That doesn't sound very 'have your Christmas at easter'

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

The main thing for me would be the reopening of barbers, because as I recently found out, having "long" hair is the most uncomfortable, irritating feeling ever and it interferes with quite literally everything I do. On top of that, I'm beginning to look like a right scruffy mess and it's genuinely causing me a lot of stress - not to mention all the other stress and fury caused by lockdowns, lies and COVID-19 in general. How women cope with (actual) long hair is beyond me, but I really do salute them for doing so!

As for my hopes, honestly I don't have any hope. I'm sick and tired of being lied to and given false hope, and I doubt it'll be different this time. I don't suppose the reopening of barbers is high on Boris' list anyway, seeing as all that lying appears to have made him lose his centre patch of hair!

On a more positive note, at least I have an excuse to travel next week, as I need to collect an order from a tack shop - an order which has been delayed for over six months due to COVID-19...

 

[chris11256]

I can’t help but wonder if the government are overplaying the idea of hospitality only serving people outside(if it is a serious proposal). Unless it’s the summer it isn’t a nice experience and at least round my way most restaurants don’t offer it & don’t have the space too.

 

[Luke McDonnell]

The sun report it’ll be June before indoor household mixing is allowed along with overnight stays. Although they say they two households might be able to meet outside over the Easter weekend. Doesn’t say whether that’ll be permanent or for Easter only.

I assume the Government is banking on April & May having good Weather.

Usual paper caveats.

I hope it is not as long as June until indoor mixing is allowed as if it is there will be problems with compliance especially among those who have been vaccinated - I know a lot of my friends and family are now saying that once they have all been vaccinated (allowing time for immunity to kick in) they are going to meet up with friends and family because if you have all been vaccinated (allowing for 2-3 weeks for antibodies to build) the risk is much, much reduced according to the evidence we now have as it now looks like the vaccines reduce transmission too so even I have been very good at following the rules once we have all been immunised that is a red line for me.

Also it was concerning to have a poster on this thread predicting a permanent ban on seeing friends and family that sounds extremely OTT surely if any government tried to hold on to these restrictions in the face of vaccinations and much reduced deaths and hospitalisations it would be overturned by the courts as the restrictions will no longer be proportionate response.

 

[chris11256]

I hope it is not as long as June until indoor mixing is allowed as if it is there will be problems with compliance especially among those who have been vaccinated - I know a lot of my friends and family are now saying that once they have all been vaccinated (allowing time for immunity to kick in) they are going to meet up with friends and family because if you have all been vaccinated (allowing for 2-3 weeks for antibodies to build) the risk is much, much reduced according to the evidence we now have as it now looks like the vaccines reduce transmission too so even I have been very good at following the rules once we have all been immunised that is a red line for me.

Also it was concerning to have a poster on this thread predicting a permanent ban on seeing friends and family that sounds extremely OTT surely if any government tried to hold on to these restrictions in the face of vaccinations and much reduced deaths and hospitalisations it would be overturned by the courts as the restrictions will no longer be proportionate response.

Unfortunately I do think that indoor household mixing will be one of the very last things to be permitted, as it's something that the government can't regulate(masks, distancing, plastic barriers and such). Although the irony of me going to work next month(I work in a school) in a small building with 480 students and 90 staff, but I can't go and see my parents(both of who will have had their first dose of vaccine as of Monday).

 

[rumoto]

The sun report it’ll be June before indoor household mixing is allowed along with overnight stays. Although they say they two households might be able to meet outside over the Easter weekend. Doesn’t say whether that’ll be permanent or for Easter only.

I assume the Government is banking on April & May having good Weather.

Usual paper caveats.

And now the Telegraph has also confirmed that two households may be able to meet outside by Easter; at the same time (just before Easter), non-essential shops and hairdressers could reopen if cases continue to drop at the current rates.

In addition, they mention that all primary and secondary schools will return on March 8, although that does not guarantee that all pupils go back that day because some schools may choose to stagger class return as they carry out mass testing when they reopen.

On the other hand, the Telegraph understands that social distancing are likely to remain in place for "months" in outside spaces.


This roadmap will be announced by Boris Johson to Parliament on Monday, with a televised press conference expected later that day.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/02/19/families-will-able-meet-next-month

Exclusive: Families will be able to meet again next month​

Outdoor two-household gatherings to be allowed under lockdown exit plan to be revealed by Boris Johnson



Families will be reunited by Easter under plans to ease Covid restrictions being announced by Boris Johnson on Monday, The Telegraph can reveal.

The move will be revealed in the Prime Minister's roadmap for how the nationwide lockdown will start to be lifted.

Two different households will be allowed to meet outside by Easter – allowing groups of relatives to finally catch up in gardens or parks – thanks to the lifting of rules that stop two household groups from gathering outdoors.

Relatives who live far away from each other may have to wait a little longer, however, because it is unclear when guidance telling people to remain in their local areas will be lifted.

New analysis also suggests hairdressers and non-essential shops in England could start being opened towards the end of next month if cases continue to drop at the current rates.

But The Telegraph understands social distancing rules that say people should keep two metres apart when outside are likely to remain in place for "months".

The reopening roadmap has been closely guarded by Number 10, with Cabinet ministers handed numbered paper copies at meetings to be returned before leaving.

Mr Johnson will seek approval from the Cabinet for the plans on Monday before announcing them to Parliament, with a televised press conference expected later that day.


All schools in England, both primary and secondary, are expected to be allowed to open on March 8 – the date the Prime Minister had earmarked for possible reopening. However that does not guarantee that all pupils will go back that day because some schools may choose to stagger class returns as they carry out mass testing when the gates reopen.


Mr Johnson and his Cabinet have stressed throughout this week that the lifting of restrictions will be "cautious" in the hope that it can be "irreversible", with no more lockdowns. While the Prime Minister's roadmap will name some dates, they will be "earliest" ones and could be delayed further if Covid surges again.

 

[chris11256]

And now the Telegraph has also confirmed that two households may be able to meet outside by Easter; at the same time (just before Easter), non-essential shops and hairdressers could reopen if cases continue to drop at the current rates.

In addition, they mention that all primary and secondary schools will return on March 8, although that does not guarantee that all pupils go back that day because some schools may choose to stagger class return as they carry out mass testing when they reopen.

On the other hand, the Telegraph understands that social distancing are likely to remain in place for "months" in outside spaces.


This roadmap will be announced by Boris Johson to Parliament on Monday, with a televised press conference expected later that day.

I suppose it depends on the definition of months, could be anything from early summer to December. But if true it doesn’t bode well for Theatres/festivals/concerts or even people returning to work.

 

[johnnychips]

And now the Telegraph has also confirmed that two households may be able to meet outside by Easter

I am not being patronising, I hope, but how many ‘ordinary’ people know the intricacies of these rules anyway, and who follows them? I have no idea of what exactly is and what is not allowed. Apparently I can work in the same room as a colleague for eight hours, but I’m not allowed to go for a beer at his house. I suspect there is a lot of breaking of lockdown rules because they are illogical. Good.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

It looks like that from March 8th, you will be legally allowed to do what people are illegally doing now (i.e. meeting people outdoors), with the addition of schools returning. Nothing spectacular, despite us being on track for at least 40% of the adult population being vaccinated by then.

 

[Bantamzen]

Money.

They simply cannot carry on indefinitely on the current trajectory, or anything like it.

Is the correct answer. If there was a general election due in a few months, I'd be pretty certain that this government would try to drag things on until then so that the next government would have to deal with all the problems they have caused. But in the absence of an election in 2021, the government know it is they that have to be accountable and deal with the economic fallout.

 

[DB]

So BJ and Whitty aren’t on the best terms. I don’t think this comes as any surprise.

There really did ought to be a rule that members of SAGE must not speak to the press (or leak to them) without authorisation.

Whitty is focussed solely on one thing, whereas Johnson ought to be taking a more balanced view (which he doesn't appear to have been doing in the past few months - perhaps partly due to knowing that his advisers might well publicly try to undermine him)?.

 

[initiation]

There really did ought to be a rule that members of SAGE must not speak to the press (or leak to them) without authorisation.

Although it is difficult I now also generally agree with this. There should be confidentiality clauses in their roles on SAGE. Saying that, I am sure the Government could get them to quieten down however the scare mongering has been helpful to their narative over the last few months.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Back to basics on this one, I'm just looking forward to leisure travel being allowed, further than my 'local area'.

 

[DustyBin]

With regards to "experts" or "scientists" views in the media or to the "scientific advisors" to Government I say this.... it is so important to know who finances these particular people, who funds their research, etc.... because big money is invested to them from large private corporations. None of them will bite the hand that feeds them. Corporations have far too much influence and power in this world.

BBC bias does exist. They have long played the game of impartiality but in the last year they have been sussed out massively. I don't really like to mention a certain B. Gates but it serves a point. This person does fund the BBC Media Action international charity (you can find it on the BBC website) and this is why you will never see or hear any bad press concerning him via the BBC about this person. They wouldn't dare to. He's very powerful.

I agree with you on this. I also think the “conspiracy theorist” tag is being used to silence debate over important issues around personal agendas and conflicts of interest (even writing that risks being branded as such!).

 

[Yew]

I agree with you on this. I also think the “conspiracy theorist” tag is being used to silence debate over important issues around personal agendas and conflicts of interest (even writing that risks being branded as such!).

Indeed, I daresay that mentioning Patrick Vallances shares in vaccine companies would be called a conspiracy, when it is a legitimate, and documented financial conflict of interest.

 

[DustyBin]

Indeed, I daresay that mentioning Patrick Vallances shares in vaccine companies would be called a conspiracy, when it is a legitimate, and documented financial conflict of interest.

I see Michie is calling for an extension of lockdown again. I mean, her political beliefs couldn’t possibly be a factor here, could they?

 

[87electric]

I agree with you on this. I also think the “conspiracy theorist” tag is being used to silence debate over important issues around personal agendas and conflicts of interest (even writing that risks being branded as such!).

Can you imagine the great John Pilger, a proper investigative journalist, questioning an important issue and then being told he is a conspiracy theorist? It seems the UK has shifted course to one of no accountability of actions, stifling of debate and increasing censorship. Anyone who can not see where we are headed on this roadmap, to coin a phrase, is in denial. As Mark Twain allegedly said, "It is easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled".

 

[STINT47]

My vacination is booked for Wednesday. When I'm done all of my grandparents and parents will have been vaccinated leaving only my sister but she's in her early 30s with no health conditions.

If there is no announcement about indoor mixing or travel being allowed then come Easter it's very tempting to just get on with it anyway. We will all have better protection than at any other point for the last twelve months.

 

[cuccir]

Back to basics on this one, I'm just looking forward to leisure travel being allowed, further than my 'local area'.

This would be the big one for me. I really hope outdoor leisure is prioritized over letting people have a natter their Nan. With that I can get to the beach, the Pennines, outdoors bits of National Trust sites, North York Moors.... basically I can do 75% of my normal leisure in the way I'd normally do it. In all seriousness: changes to social interaction laws are felt unequally because people's friends and families may live far away OR may already be bubbling with them, whereas changes to leisure rules benefit everyone more or less equally.

 

[brad465]

Here's what's currently being touted in the roadmap first phase (in two parts) and the 4 "conditions" for proceeding with easements:

Covid-19: Boris Johnson to unveil 'cautious' plan to lift England's lockdown

All schools are expected to reopen on 8 March, with some outdoor socialising allowed from 29 March.

www.bbc.co.uk

All schools in England are expected to reopen on 8 March as part of the prime minister's "cautious" four-part plan to lift the coronavirus lockdown.
Boris Johnson will share his finalised "road map" with ministers on Monday, before unveiling it to MPs and later leading a news conference at 19:00 GMT.
Up to six people or two households are due to be allowed to meet outdoors from 29 March, including in private gardens.
Rules will be lifted in phases and four conditions must be met at each stage.
It is understood that the first phase will be split into two parts:

• Phase one, part one: from 8 March - All schools open and outdoor after-school sports and activities can restart. Recreation in a public space (such as a park) will be allowed between two people - which means they will be allowed to sit down for a coffee, drink or picnic
• Phase one, part two: from 29 March - Outdoor gatherings of either six people or two households can take place, including in private gardens. Outdoor sports facilities such as tennis or basketball courts will reopen. Organised adult and children's sport can also return. This will allow, for example, grassroots football for all ages to begin again

Also on 8 March, new rules will allow each care home resident in England to have one regular visitor, who they can hold hands with.
Mr Johnson said data will be used to inform "every step" of lifting restrictions.
"We will be cautious about this approach so that we do not undo the progress we have achieved so far and the sacrifices each and every one of you has made to keep yourself and others safe," he added.
The four conditions that must be met at each phase of lockdown easing are:

1. The coronavirus vaccine programme continues to go to plan
2. Evidence shows vaccines are sufficiently reducing the number of people dying with the virus or needing hospital treatment
3. Infection rates do not risk a surge in hospital admissions
4. New variants of the virus do not fundamentally change the risk of lifting restrictions

Downing Street said the four tests are currently being met so the first step of lockdown easing in England will proceed as planned on 8 March.
The first stage of easing restrictions will be across the whole of England, Downing Street said, due to the current uniform spread of the virus.
MPs will be given the chance to vote on the regulations enabling England's road map in the coming weeks.

I'm pleased that the conditions do not focus solely on infections, but link them to a risk of increasing hospitalisations, so they're acknowledging the role of the vaccine rollout in reducing severe illness (i.e. if infections rise that alone won't influence decisions about restrictions). However the condition about new variants really shouldn't be as much of an issue as being made out, although I'm not surprised it's mentioned.