22nd February - Roadmap out of the pandemic, lifting of restrictions.

[DustyBin]

It was a global disaster with no known cure. We were right to listen to scientists and stay inside. We might yet still need to.

I’m going to say it; I don’t believe you’re a genuine poster, I think you’re simply “trolling”.

 

[PR1Berske]

I’m going to say it; I don’t believe you’re a genuine poster, I think you’re simply “trolling”.

I've had this before. I'm the only person in a thread who supports lockdown, supports restrictions, so I must be trolling.

I work in the NHS. I have heard from radiographers who saw xrays for which there was nothing in text books anything like it. We had 200+ patients in ICU at the peak last year. We must all wear masks, in our office, from start to finish.

I type what I do, how I do, because I've seen what Covid has done to real people, and why lockdown must happen again the moment cases rise, as they are across Europe.

I'm not a troll just because I'm a rare voice in favour of social restrictions.

 

[yorksrob]

I've had this before. I'm the only person in a thread who supports lockdown, supports restrictions, so I must be trolling.

I work in the NHS. I have heard from radiographers who saw xrays for which there was nothing in text books anything like it. We had 200+ patients in ICU at the peak last year. We must all wear masks, in our office, from start to finish.

I type what I do, how I do, because I've seen what Covid has done to real people, and why lockdown must happen again the moment cases rise, as they are across Europe.

I'm not a troll just because I'm a rare voice in favour of social restrictions.

You're entitled to your view.

It's not going to happen. Sorry.

 

[DustyBin]

I've had this before. I'm the only person in a thread who supports lockdown, supports restrictions, so I must be trolling.

I work in the NHS. I have heard from radiographers who saw xrays for which there was nothing in text books anything like it. We had 200+ patients in ICU at the peak last year. We must all wear masks, in our office, from start to finish.

I type what I do, how I do, because I've seen what Covid has done to real people, and why lockdown must happen again the moment cases rise, as they are across Europe.

I'm not a troll just because I'm a rare voice in favour of social restrictions.

I work in hospitality and would like to continue to do so. I’ve seen what lockdowns and restrictions have done, and continue to do to real people. Covid isn’t the only health concern out there, and it’s becoming less of a concern by the day.

 

[bramling]

I've had this before. I'm the only person in a thread who supports lockdown, supports restrictions, so I must be trolling.

I work in the NHS. I have heard from radiographers who saw xrays for which there was nothing in text books anything like it. We had 200+ patients in ICU at the peak last year. We must all wear masks, in our office, from start to finish.

I type what I do, how I do, because I've seen what Covid has done to real people, and why lockdown must happen again the moment cases rise, as they are across Europe.

I'm not a troll just because I'm a rare voice in favour of social restrictions.

So what happens if the economy completely collapses, which would eventually happen if money stops circulating round? How would the NHS be funded?

I get that there’s no easy solution, however we need to move away from any notion that lockdowns are the go-to solution.

And if we’re all expected to be permanently cooped up indoors then there isn’t much point in having a NHS.

 

[roversfan2001]

I've had this before. I'm the only person in a thread who supports lockdown, supports restrictions, so I must be trolling.

I work in the NHS. I have heard from radiographers who saw xrays for which there was nothing in text books anything like it. We had 200+ patients in ICU at the peak last year. We must all wear masks, in our office, from start to finish.

I type what I do, how I do, because I've seen what Covid has done to real people, and why lockdown must happen again the moment cases rise, as they are across Europe.

I'm not a troll just because I'm a rare voice in favour of social restrictions.

Do you also accept that that only happens to a tiny proportion of people who contract this virus then? And that lockdowns and severe social restrictions have some truly awful effects, the true scale of which hasn’t yet revealed itself.

We type what we do and how we do because we’ve seen what these restrictions can do. Covid isn’t the only consideration, far from it. I urge you to get a sense of perspective.

 

[kez19]

So what happens if the economy completely collapses, which would eventually happen if money stops circulating round? How would the NHS be funded?

I get that there’s no easy solution, however we need to move away from any notion that lockdowns are the go-to solution.

And if we’re all expected to be permanently cooped up indoors then there isn’t much point in having a NHS.

We could always tik tok..

 

[Bantamzen]

It was a global disaster with no known cure. We were right to listen to scientists and stay inside. We might yet still need to.

By the by, every country on Earth bar North Korea used lockdowns and social movement restrictions to combat Covid. The tone amongst libertarians is that this was a British overreaction or a British problem, that only the British government was following lockdowns.

It was a global pandemic. Every country on the planet reacted the same way. Every country on the planet shut down businesses. Every country on the planet had to keep movement restricted, there was no choice with such a deadly respiratory disease for which, initially, there was no cure.

We could not feasibly been an island alone, promoting a total lack of care for health and welfare.

Honestly there are so many inaccuracies in this post I don't know where to start. So I'll just go with "every country on the planet reacted the same way".

Now how can I put this to you? No they did not. You really ought to try to sort out your facts before wading into a very long running discussion. In fact you would be better advised to read everything in the thread first.

 

[kez19]

I've had this before. I'm the only person in a thread who supports lockdown, supports restrictions, so I must be trolling.

I work in the NHS. I have heard from radiographers who saw xrays for which there was nothing in text books anything like it. We had 200+ patients in ICU at the peak last year. We must all wear masks, in our office, from start to finish.

I type what I do, how I do, because I've seen what Covid has done to real people, and why lockdown must happen again the moment cases rise, as they are across Europe.

I'm not a troll just because I'm a rare voice in favour of social restrictions.

How does staying inside help anything isn’t that a burden to the NHS? Obesity as an example?

Shouldn’t you on the other hand be encouraging people to, oh I don’t know exercise, go outside get vitamin d, join a gym if need be?

I’m surprised actually that’s the default position is lockdown and stay in

 

[takno]

I've had this before. I'm the only person in a thread who supports lockdown, supports restrictions, so I must be trolling.

I work in the NHS. I have heard from radiographers who saw xrays for which there was nothing in text books anything like it. We had 200+ patients in ICU at the peak last year. We must all wear masks, in our office, from start to finish.

I type what I do, how I do, because I've seen what Covid has done to real people, and why lockdown must happen again the moment cases rise, as they are across Europe.

I'm not a troll just because I'm a rare voice in favour of social restrictions.

There is a strongly ill-informed tone to your posts which almost seems designed to irritate the large number of posters on this thread who know considerably more about what we are discussing than you appear to. Put simply, most countries had some degree of lockdown, most were less restrictive and almost all were much more limited in duration than ours, and almost all have had at least a degree of introspection from their government into whether it was the right thing to do.

We've had several massive lockdowns, and are still in the top third of worst-affected countries, which is ample demonstration that the level of lockdown we've suffered was pointless as well as utterly devastating.

When it comes to lockdowns, working in the NHS gives you almost uniquely-little insight into the impact - you're unlikely to have been furloughed, certainly won't be out of a job (yet), and may well have been out and about enjoying a relatively normal work life. I don't doubt that it was horrible inside the NHS, but that's pretty-much inevitable. The rest of us have been, and continue to be, put through the wringer with really very little justification at all.

 

[PR1Berske]

You're entitled to your view.

It's not going to happen. Sorry.

And you're entitled to yours.

But when a discussion forum becomes an echo chamber full of people agreeing with each other that no more lockdowns will ever happen, it's no wonder that emotions run high when they eventually do.

I came to this forum wanting to get back into typing on the speculative ideas subforum. It's unfortunate really that I have to counter some of the views in this thread, but I'm genuinely passionate about the need to stay safe and to keep the wider population safe.

I've seen the ICU figures in this hospital. I've seen the clinical history sheets. I've heard first hand accounts from radiographers. So forgive me for sometimes feeling the need to break into this thread to remind people that restrictions are always necessary, that wearing a mask is sometimes necessary, and that opposition to restrictions isn't in the best interests of the wider population.

 

[DustyBin]

So what happens if the economy completely collapses, which would eventually happen if money stops circulating round? How would the NHS be funded?

I get that there’s no easy solution, however we need to move away from any notion that lockdowns are the go-to solution.

And if we’re all expected to be permanently cooped up indoors then there isn’t much point in having a NHS.

This is it.

@aoin I’ll retract my trolling comment for now and take you at face value. How do you suggest we deal with the economic fallout from what you’re advocating? Would you like to see a move away from capitalism or perhaps a monetary economy altogether? I presume you’ve thought about this so I’d be genuinely interested to know.

 

[kez19]

And you're entitled to yours.

But when a discussion forum becomes an echo chamber full of people agreeing with each other that no more lockdowns will ever happen, it's no wonder that emotions run high when they eventually do.

I came to this forum wanting to get back into typing on the speculative ideas subforum. It's unfortunate really that I have to counter some of the views in this thread, but I'm genuinely passionate about the need to stay safe and to keep the wider population safe.

I've seen the ICU figures in this hospital. I've seen the clinical history sheets. I've heard first hand accounts from radiographers. So forgive me for sometimes feeling the need to break into this thread to remind people that restrictions are always necessary, that wearing a mask is sometimes necessary, and that opposition to restrictions isn't in the best interests of the wider population.

Aah restrictions in place for joe public but your celebs and politicians go on jollies, yes we are all plebs in this

How did/does the NHS cope with flu and other viruses yearly? (genuine question here as I’m sure in that perspective you would have life as normal and not batten down the hatches?)

 

[Class 33]

I've had this before. I'm the only person in a thread who supports lockdown, supports restrictions, so I must be trolling.

I work in the NHS. I have heard from radiographers who saw xrays for which there was nothing in text books anything like it. We had 200+ patients in ICU at the peak last year. We must all wear masks, in our office, from start to finish.

I type what I do, how I do, because I've seen what Covid has done to real people, and why lockdown must happen again the moment cases rise, as they are across Europe.

I'm not a troll just because I'm a rare voice in favour of social restrictions.

Oh for crying out loud. That comment which I've bolded infuriates me! You say we must lockdown the moment cases rise again. Whilst it is possible that cases may rise again, do you not realise that thanks to the vaccines that the link between new cases leading to hospital numbers and deaths has now been broken??!! Hospital numbers and deaths are NOT going to surge upwards out of control again like they have previously! Those days are now long gone! There will be absolutely no need for any further lockdowns! Do you not realise the severe effects lockdowns have on the economy, people's livelihoods and mental health??!! Many thousands of businesses have gone under because of these lockdowns and restrictions! Millions of people are really struggling with their mental health because of all this dragging on for so long! I don't know how many, but a fair number of people would have committed suicide as a result of these lockdowns and restrictions. Back in late October when there was a leak to the press and media that there was going to be a second full national lockdown starting on 2nd November, I read on one forum that they knew of one person who when they found out about this, they instantly committed suicide because they were unable to take going through another national lockdown. So your comments saying that there should be another lockdown the moment cases rise, is absolutely appalling.

 

[Jamesrob637]

We could always tik tok..

I'd rather slit my wrists

Or drive a Nissan Juke PUKE

 

[Baxenden Bank]

And you're entitled to yours.

But when a discussion forum becomes an echo chamber full of people agreeing with each other that no more lockdowns will ever happen, it's no wonder that emotions run high when they eventually do.

I came to this forum wanting to get back into typing on the speculative ideas subforum. It's unfortunate really that I have to counter some of the views in this thread, but I'm genuinely passionate about the need to stay safe and to keep the wider population safe.

I've seen the ICU figures in this hospital. I've seen the clinical history sheets. I've heard first hand accounts from radiographers. So forgive me for sometimes feeling the need to break into this thread to remind people that restrictions are always necessary, that wearing a mask is sometimes necessary, and that opposition to restrictions isn't in the best interests of the wider population.

You don't have to counter anything. Unless you are an official 'rapid rebuttal unit'. You could just decide we are all idiots and leave us to dwell in our immeasurable stupidity.

 

[kez19]

I'd rather slit my wrists

Or drive a Nissan Juke PUKE

Of all things don’t do that..

I have a LADA for you, sorry it’s in Russia lol

 

[yorksrob]

And you're entitled to yours.

But when a discussion forum becomes an echo chamber full of people agreeing with each other that no more lockdowns will ever happen, it's no wonder that emotions run high when they eventually do.

I came to this forum wanting to get back into typing on the speculative ideas subforum. It's unfortunate really that I have to counter some of the views in this thread, but I'm genuinely passionate about the need to stay safe and to keep the wider population safe.

I've seen the ICU figures in this hospital. I've seen the clinical history sheets. I've heard first hand accounts from radiographers. So forgive me for sometimes feeling the need to break into this thread to remind people that restrictions are always necessary, that wearing a mask is sometimes necessary, and that opposition to restrictions isn't in the best interests of the wider population.

Lockdowns happen because the public go along with them.

My suspicion is that the public went along with the first lockdown because the disease was new and it wanted to give the NHS time to adjust to it.

I suspect that the later lockdowns have been tolerated as a stopgap until the vulnerable were vaccinated.

I do not for one moment believe that there is a widespread open-ended public commitment to frequent lockdowns, particularly now that the majority have been vaccinated.

If policy makers are expecting to use lockdowns to control coronavirus into the future, I believe they will fail.

 

[DelayRepay]

I've had this before. I'm the only person in a thread who supports lockdown, supports restrictions, so I must be trolling.

I work in the NHS. I have heard from radiographers who saw xrays for which there was nothing in text books anything like it. We had 200+ patients in ICU at the peak last year. We must all wear masks, in our office, from start to finish.

I type what I do, how I do, because I've seen what Covid has done to real people, and why lockdown must happen again the moment cases rise, as they are across Europe.

I'm not a troll just because I'm a rare voice in favour of social restrictions.

I don't think supporting restrictions makes you a troll. When the pandemic first hit, I reluctantly supported restrictions as a necessary measure while we worked out how to deal with this unknown threat.

And I know what Covid has done to real people. I have a neighbour who has been widowed, a friend who's lost his mum, and a friend who's dad is suffering with what some people call Long Covid.

But I counter that with a friend who has lost his job and home, a friend whose business is no more, and an acquaintance (a friend of a friend) who committed suicide. I counter it with a colleague who could not see either of their parents when they were on their deathbeds, and could not arrange a proper funeral for them. I also counter it with millions of children and young people who have not had a proper education for over 12 months, and the teenagers who I support on a voluntary basis who are wondering if they will ever find meaningful employment. I am not sure if the 17 year old who had to be talked down from a motorway bridge by the police is entirely attributed to Covid, so I won't mention him here.

I do not deny that Covid is bad, but so are the restrictions. You've seen what Covid has done to real people, but have you seen what the last 12 months of rules and restrictions has done? I don't think we understand the full impact yet.

 

[PR1Berske]

You don't have to counter anything. Unless you are an official 'rapid rebuttal unit'. You could just decide we are all idiots and leave us to dwell in our immeasurable stupidity.

You know, that is a fair point. We all remember that very early meme of the man refusing to go to bed "because someone is WRONG on the INTERNET!" and nobody wants to be him.

I don't think anyone here is stupid. I haven't used that word or suggested it.

I think there is some self-congratulatory echoing going on, because you all agree with each other and all agree that life should return to normal, and I react to that in ways, perhaps, I shouldn't.

I just... You know, on here and other forums, I see people who act as though we're living through a conspiracy theory. And we're really not.

 

[BJames]

I've had this before. I'm the only person in a thread who supports lockdown, supports restrictions, so I must be trolling.

I work in the NHS. I have heard from radiographers who saw xrays for which there was nothing in text books anything like it. We had 200+ patients in ICU at the peak last year. We must all wear masks, in our office, from start to finish.

I type what I do, how I do, because I've seen what Covid has done to real people, and why lockdown must happen again the moment cases rise, as they are across Europe.

I'm not a troll just because I'm a rare voice in favour of social restrictions.

Absolutely not a chance. Deaths have plummetted, as have hospitalisations, as a result of the success of the vaccine rollout. We cannot be living in a state where we are constantly threatened with lockdowns, and where too often the media criticises the public for not "following the rules", many of which have no basis in medical science (e.g. for a start, see the 10pm curfew and substantial meal, policies which were challenged in court and the government lost... although they chose to keep that one quiet).

I understand why people in your position feel we need restrictions, but you should realise the tolerance level that people have. I would also agree that this forum represents a large subsection of people who do not support lockdown, but this amount is increasing, and many people who were following the rules are now starting to ignore it, and the government will lose control. Everything must be based in logic, and locking down because CASES are increasing and not deaths does not support this logic. As it stands, we still do not have evidence that these variants evade antibody protection to the extent that some media outlets claim, and I firmly believe that the figures support this, as people like Johnson strangely claim that it is due to lockdown - I would disagree in the strongest terms, given that the amount of people I have seen out and about since mid February in town and city centre has been almost like pre-Covid times in some instances, yet with nothing to do. So where do people go once they've finished their walks? To each other's houses. You can't keep lockdown going constantly, people will just mingle in their own property. You can't catch them all, and you can't fine them all. And yet still, deaths have plummeted. So I personally think we're doing ok, and ready to open the rest of society back up.

 

[VauxhallandI]

You know, that is a fair point. We all remember that very early meme of the man refusing to go to bed "because someone is WRONG on the INTERNET!" and nobody wants to be him.

I don't think anyone here is stupid. I haven't used that word or suggested it.

I think there is some self-congratulatory echoing going on, because you all agree with each other and all agree that life should return to normal, and I react to that in ways, perhaps, I shouldn't.

I just... You know, on here and other forums, I see people who act as though we're living through a conspiracy theory. And we're really not.

Whilst you may have seen a lot of it at close hand there are another 66.5m people outside of the hospital window. I think maybe you need to step back and get some perspective of the carnage elsewhere

Your tunnel vision as a medical professional scares me a little

 

[BJames]

Whilst you may have seen a lot of it at close hand there are another 66.5m people outside of the hospital window. I think maybe you need to step back and get some perspective of the carnage elsewhere

Your tunnel vision as a medical professional scares me a little

I'm minded to think this as well. My next door neighbour is a nurse within the NHS, and I know someone else who works in an ICU ward. They are much less concerned than they were 6 months ago. Besides that, some ICUs are now reducing capacity as it is no longer required (in places such as Nottingham's large Queen's Medical Centre, one of the biggest hospitals in England. See: https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/positive-step-covid-critical-care-5230729) Here's the key quote:

A picture shared by a consultant this week, shows a whiteboard where beds are usually marked out with their patients, as being empty.

 

[duncanp]

"Everyone was afraid of" is an exaggeration. I know I for one was not, I saw the sensationalised scaremongering in the media for what it was.

Perhaps I should have said "..some people were afraid of..."

But in any event it is good news that the reopening of schools has not caused a large increase in cases.

I think this has to be due in part to the vaccination program helping to break the chain of transmission, as well as higher levels of immunity in the country generally.

I can't see that the latest round of reopenings is going to cause a large surge in cases either.

 

[Ediswan]

I type what I do, how I do, because I've seen what Covid has done to real people, and why lockdown must happen again the moment cases rise, as they are across Europe.

How big a rise would you be looking for ? Once cases get get to a low level, there willl be some days which are higher than the day before. Numbers please.

 

[Ianno87]

But in any event it is good news that the reopening of schools has not caused a large increase in cases.

I was thinking this earlier, the return of schools a few weeks ago seems to have had no effect whatsoever on the case rate. I was always sceptical about how much benefit closing schools would actually have back in January.

 

[Scotrail12]

And you're entitled to yours.

But when a discussion forum becomes an echo chamber full of people agreeing with each other that no more lockdowns will ever happen, it's no wonder that emotions run high when they eventually do.

I came to this forum wanting to get back into typing on the speculative ideas subforum. It's unfortunate really that I have to counter some of the views in this thread, but I'm genuinely passionate about the need to stay safe and to keep the wider population safe.

I've seen the ICU figures in this hospital. I've seen the clinical history sheets. I've heard first hand accounts from radiographers. So forgive me for sometimes feeling the need to break into this thread to remind people that restrictions are always necessary, that wearing a mask is sometimes necessary, and that opposition to restrictions isn't in the best interests of the wider population.

Nobody is forcing you post on this thread if the views anger you that much. And it's not an echo chamber either.

As for your final comments as to opposition to restrictions not being in the population's best interests - neither are closed businesses, neither are suicides, neither are mental health problems, neither are physical health problems caused by shielding/closures of gyms etc. Since you're in the medical field based on your posts, I'd like to hope that you know that there are major societal consequences of lockdown.

 

[52290]

I too do not have a smartphone, have no intention of getting one unless it becomes the only medium to show a vaccine passport, but see nothing wrong with pub refusing entrance. After all a publican has always been able to refuse anyone entrance as long as not based on race.

I went to the pub this afternoon with six friends. The one person who didn't have a smartphone had to sign in, that's all.

 

[Yew]

And you're entitled to yours.

But when a discussion forum becomes an echo chamber full of people agreeing with each other that no more lockdowns will ever happen, it's no wonder that emotions run high when they eventually do.

I came to this forum wanting to get back into typing on the speculative ideas subforum. It's unfortunate really that I have to counter some of the views in this thread, but I'm genuinely passionate about the need to stay safe and to keep the wider population safe.

I've seen the ICU figures in this hospital. I've seen the clinical history sheets. I've heard first hand accounts from radiographers. So forgive me for sometimes feeling the need to break into this thread to remind people that restrictions are always necessary, that wearing a mask is sometimes necessary, and that opposition to restrictions isn't in the best interests of the wider population.

How, as a clinical practitioner, can you support the scattergun and unevidenced restrictions that have been a spectre upon our society for the last year, in medical terms, it is the equivalent of draining humors. We need clear empirical evidence that any measures work, that they cause the least overall harm, and that they are the least restrictive means possible. Instead we face knee jerk reactions fuelled by the illogical urges of base emotions and a sensationalist media with a financial interest on keeping us all locked up and consuming their product.

 

[VauxhallandI]

How, as a clinical practitioner, can you support the scattergun and unevidenced restrictions that have been a spectre upon our society for the last year, in medical terms, it is the equivalent of draining humors. We need clear empirical evidence that any measures work, that they cause the least overall harm, and that they are the least restrictive means possible. Instead we face knee jerk reactions fuelled by the illogical urges of base emotions and a sensationalist media with a financial interest on keeping us all locked up and consuming their product.

Maybe they are the mask sales rep?