30% of TPE services cancelled Thursday 8 June

[DanNCL]

A point worthy of query you raise. Historically, what reason was given at the time you quote for XC to remove Chester-le-Street from its itinerary and now in 2023, what reasons could be given to cause this aspirational reinstatement by that TOC.

TPE upped its service at Chester-le-Street to compensate. Back when TPE were reliable. Not sure exactly when this was, but some point in the early-mid 2010s. XC retained a single stopping service until March 2020, the 17:32 from Newcastle.

XC could, in theory, resume calling by having Newcastle starting services leave 3 minutes earlier, they’d regain their current paths from Durham. A quick look at Realtimetrains suggests this would be possible, but obviously someone with timetabling experience would be able to more accurately determine that than I could.

 

[td97]

It's quite an impressive stat that ⅔rds of Chester-le-Street's services were operated by Northern today. Northern operate 4 services calling at CLS.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I understand that a number of drivers have chosen not to transfer to the new company under TUPE rights. This will have exacerbated the situation.

28.

A number of conductors also decided not to TUPE over, glasgow has been particularly badly hit as many have jumped ship to ScotRail where the pay and conditions are better

They still have to give 6 months notice so they have not just suddenly left

Not under TUPE, you can decline to transfer across in which case there is no notice period to serve. Your contract ends when the transfer takes place

 

[Krokodil]

There wasn’t a train from Leeds to Manchester via Huddersfield neither a stopper or a fast service for the best part of 3 hours this afternoon.

I couldn’t tell you how many were cancelled as TPE can’t be bothered to produce a printed timetable, but I guess thats about 12 services cancelled. All P coded except for one which was cancelled in the normal manner

This should give you an idea of the number of trains cancelled.

Search - Recent Train Times

 

[Mcrdvr]

What in peoples eyes do TPE need to do in order to get the RDW agreement up and running?

Adhere to drivers terms and conditions.

 

[Dan G]

Yeah and I want a pony but that isn't going to happen either

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Yesterday (thursday) there were 96 cancellations and 34 amended/part cancellations showing on Journeycheck at 05:00 when I checked my shift times. It was obvious to me as the day progressed while some trains dropped off JCheck more cancellations were added. Today at 03:00 it currently shows 67 cancellations and 27 amended. One of my trains has been cancelled but the crew and units back working hasnt, no doubt it will be as we won't be in position to run that service and I somehow doubt there will be a driver available to retrieve a unit off depot. That will also affect my third and return to base working although that particular train hasnt ran this week anyway. If that happens that will be the third day this week my entire diagram for the day has been binned

Think 30% of trains ran as opposed to 30% cancellled would be more accurate...

 

[TurbineEnginee]

Yes, an emergency timetable, as Avanti did, is urgently necessary.

Maybe we’re just playing with words here but clearly they can just cancel services short notice at will.

What stops them from consistently cancelling the same services at short notice day in day out? What stops them from zeroing out the inventory so that no tickets can be sold for them?

Do they really even need the timetable to be changed in order to only sell tickets for the services they can actually run?

 

[Gaelan]

Maybe we’re just playing with words here but clearly they can just cancel services short notice at will.

What stops them from consistently cancelling the same services at short notice day in day out? What stops them from zeroing out the inventory so that no tickets can be sold for them?

Do they actually even need the timetable to be changed in order to only sell tickets for the services they can actually run?

TPE's trains don't seem to be "reservation mandatory" (looking at an arbitrary one on RTT right now) so ticket sites would just sell flexible tickets for those trains.

I suppose going "reservation mandatory" is an option, but that's fraught with its own problems.

 

[TurbineEnginee]

TPE's trains don't seem to be "reservation mandatory" (looking at an arbitrary one on RTT right now) so ticket sites would just sell flexible tickets for those trains.

I suppose going "reservation mandatory" is an option, but that's fraught with its own problems.

Do they control the price for flexible tickets? Can the operator make those prices sufficiently unattractive?

It just seems unimaginable that they can’t do anything at all to steer people to a selected list of services that they believe they can actually run.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Why not just accept the reality of the situation that so exists and take into account the union feelings on rest-day working and the use of overtime. There is now no franchise as before with all its inherent service provision obligations. Just draw up a working timetable that will allow for certain employee annual holiday requirements that will only run from Monday to Saturday, which will obviate staffing on Sundays.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

Theoretically they shouldn’t have problems running trains on Sundays as drivers have Sundays inside the week at Transpennine. There just aren’t enough of them on any day.

 

[basfordlad]

28 drivers left? That is a lot to lose !!

 

[JordR]

Adhere to drivers terms and conditions.

This has been mentioned a few times in the thread without too much detail. What exactly are the non-compliances that are happening?

 

[Dan G]

Yesterday (thursday) there were 96 cancellations and 34 amended/part cancellations showing on Journeycheck at 05:00 when I checked my shift times. It was obvious to me as the day progressed while some trains dropped off JCheck more cancellations were added. Today at 03:00 it currently shows 67 cancellations and 27 amended. One of my trains has been cancelled but the crew and units back working hasnt, no doubt it will be as we won't be in position to run that service and I somehow doubt there will be a driver available to retrieve a unit off depot. That will also affect my third and return to base working although that particular train hasnt ran this week anyway. If that happens that will be the third day this week my entire diagram for the day has been binned

Think 30% of trains ran as opposed to 30% cancellled would be more accurate...

I'm still curious as to what *actually happened* yesterday to make the lack of staff (apparently?) suddenly so acute compared to previous days.

 

[Snow1964]

I'm still curious as to what *actually happened* yesterday to make the lack of staff (apparently?) suddenly so acute compared to previous days.

I was wondering that too.

TPE contract ended 28th May, so not like it was first day of new organisation. One assumes there is limits on number of staff who can book holidays on any given day, and no logical reason why sickness would suddenly occur. So why a random Thursday.

 

[basfordlad]

This has been mentioned a few times in the thread without too much detail. What exactly are the non-compliances that are happening?

Good Q and how can TPE sort that issue out.

 

[TomG]

Only gonna get worse while the government cares more about provoking industrial action to "prove" that unions are bad than they do about running public transport properly. Riling various sections of the public up against each other is all they have, but unfortunately they're pretty good at it.

The Unions aren't giving their members the opportunity to vote on (the latest) offer made to them by the RDG. This has been done multiple times...instead the unions call for strike action.

 

[RHolmes]

The Unions aren't giving their members the opportunity to vote on (the latest) offer made to them by the RDG. This has been done multiple times...instead the unions call for strike action.

Because the offer is poor and will NOT be accepted.

The fact that the collective TOC’s have voted for more strike action rather than vote NO, shows this.

Additionally the current problems faced by TPE are not because of either unions industrial action.

 

[whoosh]

The Unions aren't giving their members the opportunity to vote on (the latest) offer made to them by the RDG. This has been done multiple times...instead the unions call for strike action.

ASLEF have been given two offers from the RDG. The first (5% year one, 4% year two) was made without any negotiations taking place.

The second (4% year one, 4% year two) doesn't look any different to me in terms of strings attached, except it's less money.
It also doesn't resemble how the talks were progressing, with the offer being a regression.

So that's it. Twice. I'd hardly call that "multiple", especially as there weren't even any talks over the first one.

The country should be building things up again, but in England (as opposed to Scotland and Wales), the government doesn't want that to happen.

"The unions call for strike action"
Drivers have just had a strike ballot paper to continue action for the next six months - The members.
"Will you go on strike, yes or no"
When the votes, the members votes, are counted, then they have spoken.

 

[LowLevel]

The Unions aren't giving their members the opportunity to vote on (the latest) offer made to them by the RDG. This has been done multiple times...instead the unions call for strike action.

What's the point? Certainly where I am we've told our reps not to bother coming back with anything that includes changing our rest day patterns every roster cycle change (IE every few months so you can't plan your life ahead, make arrangements that work for your personal life with your partner etc) and particularly having weeks where you find out what you're doing a few days before.

While that's still a prerequisite there isn't a deal to be done so it's a waste of time, money and effort to hold a referendum on it.

 

[VauxhallNova]

The number of drivers not TUPE'ing over is a lot less than 28, it is single figures.

You can understand why some of the ex-First management would want to brief journalists that it is a much higher number.

 

[sjm77]

A point worthy of query you raise. Historically, what reason was given at the time you quote for XC to remove Chester-le-Street from its itinerary and now in 2023, what reasons could be given to cause this aspirational reinstatement by that TOC.

I think XC dropped Chester-le-Street when TPEx went to two trains per hour to Newcastle which made sense. The problem now is that XC only really operates the hourly Edinburgh service to Newcastle and have become more focused on longer distance journeys (Modern Railways May 2023). The Newcastle-Reading service has been dropped to just a few services a day and some are truncated at York.

 

[bob007]

I'm still curious as to what *actually happened* yesterday to make the lack of staff (apparently?) suddenly so acute compared to previous days.

Good question. We're so used to hearing the "staff shortages" line across all industries, it's time we start digging a little deeper.

 

[mike57]

Good question. We're so used to hearing the "staff shortages" line across all industries, it's time we start digging a little deeper.

Sounds like the multiple crew changes dont help, 1 member of staff not available, crew cover the whole Liverpool - Newcastle or whatever out and back, 2 trains cancelled. Current situation: crew cover 1/3 of journey on 6 services, 6 services cancelled due to 1 staff shortage. I am not in the railway industry, but the issue isn't hard to grasp, so how those in charge that insisted on that method of working managed to overlook it is the question. My answer would be either incompetance or negligance.

 

[Krokodil]

The number of drivers not TUPE'ing over is a lot less than 28, it is single figures.

You can understand why some of the ex-First management would want to brief journalists that it is a much higher number.

Can you then explain why the service has fallen apart in the fortnight since OLR took over?

 

[mpthomson]

The number of drivers not TUPE'ing over is a lot less than 28, it is single figures.

You can understand why some of the ex-First management would want to brief journalists that it is a much higher number.

How many drivers does TPE actually have? Just trying to work out what proportion of the total 9 (or 28) actually is.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The number of drivers not TUPE'ing over is a lot less than 28, it is single figures.

You can understand why some of the ex-First management would want to brief journalists that it is a much higher number.

There isn’t any such briefing going on from First, nor from the former MD who, I believe, is the only manager to have left TPE since OLR took over.

I don’t know the total of drivers who didn’t finally transfer over but you also need to factor in guards not transferring. That has affected at least one depot.

 

[VauxhallNova]

Only one TPE director was offered a contract by First and she has gone back to the parent company.

 

[Confused52]

This has been mentioned a few times in the thread without too much detail. What exactly are the non-compliances that are happening?

This is a very good question. If no answer is forthcoming we will have to assume that the union side has something to hide.