377/6

[southern442]

I managed to get a 5 car formation on 2Y61 1936 London Bridge to Caterham service this evening, have to say the 1+1 with table by the toilet was the comfiest seating yet on those units.

I think the tip up seats are quite comfy.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They are being used on the additional fast East Grinstead services. Today they pretty much did every Dorking train as well. Think there was something like 20 out today.

I was on a slow East Grinstead train that was formed of 2 377/6's today.

 

[bicbasher]

I think the tip up seats are quite comfy.

Excuse my ignorance, where are the tip up seats?

 

[southern442]

Excuse my ignorance, where are the tip up seats?

in the disabled section of one coach (think its coach 3) where the disabled toilet is, opposite that on the other side of the vestibule there is a disabled section with 2 quite heavily padded tip up seats.

 

[Class377/5]

Southern now have 24x 377/6.

EDIT:

Full 26 diagrams filled today 07/01/14.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Southern now have 24x 377/6.

EDIT:

Full 26 diagrams filled today 07/01/14.

Thanks for that - I have updated the list.

Not forgetting the list of where and when I (and YOU can) see them around Croydon.

BUT There are only 24 diagrams (for 26 units) ?.

I suspect 601 and 603 are not yet in as they were apparently testing early morning 7th down in SE land. Perhaps they were tested OK by the end of 7th Jan ?. Due to the Christmas break I doubt much happened though only 601, 602 & 603 were probably left to test as 616 & 623 had been at Stewarts Lane (available for doing tests long before 20/12/13). This week would quite likely see them all tested.

 

[Class377/5]

Sorry my mistake. Full 24 diagrams. 601/603 will be going Selhurst after midnight so all 26 will be with Southern by tomorrow.

Told the 377/7 commissioning is now back to March now instead of February.

 

[sarahj]

An issue thats come up with these new 5 cars is layovers at terminal stations, esp victoria. Since everythging else is 4 cars (exclude the odd 442) you quicly get up to the platform length.

ie two 4 car 377's on the platform, no space to put a 5 car
2 x5 cars, no space to put a 4 car and deff no 5 car.
At the most on plat 19 you can just squeeze in 13 coaches.

DOH!!!

 

[Class377/5]

601/603 now visible at Selhurst from the Sydenham lines.

 

[southern442]

On the subject of the 456 cascade, does anyone know if there are any still in service? I saw a southern liveried one at Wimbledon park Depot today.

 

[Class377/5]

On the subject of the 456 cascade, does anyone know if there are any still in service? I saw a southern liveried one at Wimbledon park Depot today.

All 456 were removed from Southern locations by 01/01.

 

[physics34]

An issue thats come up with these new 5 cars is layovers at terminal stations, esp victoria. Since everythging else is 4 cars (exclude the odd 442) you quicly get up to the platform length.

ie two 4 car 377's on the platform, no space to put a 5 car
2 x5 cars, no space to put a 4 car and deff no 5 car.
At the most on plat 19 you can just squeeze in 13 coaches.

DOH!!!

This is causing major problems in selhurst depot too.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Did nobody think of this before?

 

[RichardN]

This won't have been helped by the Ockley landslip changing the routes the 377/6 are being used on.

 

[Class377/5]

Did nobody think of this before?

They did. There a long report on the issues and how they will over come them including new Sidings. More are planned for the arrival of the 377/7.

 

[YorkshireBear]

They did. There a long report on the issues and how they will over come them including new Sidings. More are planned for the arrival of the 377/7.

Oh so its just the depots have not fully been changed yet?

 

[Class377/5]

Oh so its just the depots have not fully been changed yet?

My understanding is the depot have being altered (look at the main shed works currently) but remember you've had 130 carriages delivered while withdrawing 48 at the same time so you have more units than expected. Add in replacing berthing at London Bridge with Field Sidings you get more units in and around Selhurst which means its busier now than recently.

With the introductions of the 387 later this year sees Southern shuffle its fleet around again especially with the increased AC testing requirements.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Sorry my mistake. Full 24 diagrams. 601/603 will be going Selhurst after midnight so all 26 will be with Southern by tomorrow.

Told the 377/7 commissioning is now back to March now instead of February.

Thanks for the info on 377/6s. List of units and their status duly updated.

I am hoping to do another survey of what diagrams the 377/6s are working - should be all. I skipped last Friday as I was in too much pain to go out "there". The network was broke anyway so diagrams probably spoiled. Painkillers should now make me immune to even the cold (so sods law dictates that there will be ice on the 3rd rail !).

Do we know why there is a pause before the 377/7s get commissioned ?. I cannot wait to get out in the cold !. Duplicated the questions as I have used my brain and asked it in the 377/7 thread.

 

[physics34]

They did. There a long report on the issues and how they will over come them including new Sidings. More are planned for the arrival of the 377/7.

Two new sidings soon to be recommissioned at Tattenham Corner.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

My understanding is the depot have being altered (look at the main shed works currently) but remember you've had 130 carriages delivered while withdrawing 48 at the same time so you have more units than expected. Add in replacing berthing at London Bridge with Field Sidings you get more units in and around Selhurst which means its busier now than recently.

With the introductions of the 387 later this year sees Southern shuffle its fleet around again especially with the increased AC testing requirements.

And most of the sidings are various lengths in multiples of 4, i.e 8, 12 and 16 coaches so there is some wasted space if you have a 10 car in a 12 car siding etc. Poor planning.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I suppose that given most of Southerns stock is still comprised of 4-car units it makes sense that most sidings will have a length in multiples of 4-cars. Southern no longer have any 2-car emus (almost forgot 171/7s) but when they did a single 456 would have ruined things anyway.

I suppose a 10-car 377/6 pair will just have to be treated as 12-cars for stabling purposes.

Perhaps, regarding length of new sidings, they are as long as they can be to fit on the site ?.

Its not really the 5-car units that are at fault. It is the ten-car services that they operate (a few exceptions) that cause problems. Without the 377/6s this would have meant a 455+455+456(10cars) OR 455+456(6cars) ruining the parking logic. Remember there are/were 10 car formations of 377s formed 377/3+377/3+377/(1or4). Either way there are now 82 extra coaches to try to park up which will make the passengers travelling experience more pleasant. So I blame the passengers .

 

[samj]

377606 and 377621 were stabled in the down sidings at Horsham last night. First time I have seen 2 x sets of 377/6s stabled there. However I found it strange that they are still being stabled here considering the Horsham-Dorking section is still closed. What are the 377/6 units that stable at Horsham overnight currently doing in the morning?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Probably moved down ready for the limited resumption of direct services Horsham - Dorking - London this morning?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Regarding unit lengths, I just remembered what sarahj said. I always forget the 5-car 442s are effectively 6-cars long. Because the 442s have longer coaches they are getting on for 120metres long (5 times 23 is 115 metres). The 377 coaches are 20 metres long so six coaches is 120metres. Its the same with the 444s 5 longer coaches makes them the same length as 6 cars of a 450.

As regards Horsham KI recall there is a diagram pair that end up overnight at Horsham on weekday evenings. That means that on Friday night they stay there all weekend ready for Monday morning. I will try and find my post on that with times. Found it.

 

[Minstral25]

Two new sidings soon to be recommissioned at Tattenham Corner.

Local rail user group in Redhill reported that stabling sidings are to be created at Redhill, is this for the new units now or Thameslink later. I think drivers sign on at Redhill so it would be a logical place to put some sidings.

 

[Class377/5]

377606 and 377621 were stabled in the down sidings at Horsham last night. First time I have seen 2 x sets of 377/6s stabled there. However I found it strange that they are still being stabled here considering the Horsham-Dorking section is still closed. What are the 377/6 units that stable at Horsham overnight currently doing in the morning?

They've been stabling at Horsham for a few weeks now.

Two new sidings soon to be recommissioned at Tattenham Corner.

And most of the sidings are various lengths in multiples of 4, i.e 8, 12 and 16 coaches so there is some wasted space if you have a 10 car in a 12 car siding etc. Poor planning.

Bo not poor planning as this issue was identified in the planning. Yes its wasteful but there was no money for 12 car extensions so you either suffer 8 cars longer or get a 25% boost now. I know what most passengers would prefer.

Local rail user group in Redhill reported that stabling sidings are to be created at Redhill, is this for the new units now or Thameslink later. I think drivers sign on at Redhill so it would be a logical place to put some sidings.

12 car stabling loop on the Up side. Believe its currently disused?

 

[Minstral25]

12 car stabling loop on the Up side. Believe its currently disused?

Isn't that where platform 0 is going to be put early in CP5? Or is it the headshunt where the FGW units sit if they need to clear the platforms - doesn't look 12 car though

Had guessed they would use the old stabling point by the Tonbridge lines - believe that could fit a 12 car

 

[Class377/5]

Isn't that where platform 0 is going to be put early in CP5? Or is it the headshunt where the FGW units sit if they need to clear the platforms - doesn't look 12 car though

Had guessed they would use the old stabling point by the Tonbridge lines - believe that could fit a 12 car

That all the detail I had.

 

[tsr]

I'm not entirely sure where the trains will stable at Redhill. I'm pretty sure there would be room to put them over in the loop/stabling point by the Tonbridge lines. Freight & engineering trains very occasionally use the facilities on the Down Side to wait for a possession to begin or for capacity through Redhill to become available, but there are also further overgrown sidings, just by the old brick huts & equipment rooms - it might be an idea to rebuild those. Put me down as "unsure", though!

As for the loops on the Up Side adjacent to Platform 1 - I don't believe they are "disused" in any official capacity, but I may be wrong. I'm pretty sure I've seen engineering equipment and defective wagons sitting there over the last year or thereabouts. They won't last for ever, though - that's the only place the Platform 0 enhancement can really go.

With regards to the siding/headshunt past the London end of the station, do remember that this is often used by RHTTs, particularly on driver training runs (as and when needed) but also at other times. As deicing is often needed in the area overnight, it would make sense for this area to remain available to all trains at short notice, and also to have dedicated sidings for passenger stock away from those footpaths next to the line beside the bridge (to avoid graffiti if the trains stay there for a number of hours).

I suspect that any new holding sidings would partially be used for the stock for the first train(s) of the day from Redhill, which can be stored either at Gatwick CHS or Redhill's headshunt/Long Siding (in the case of FGW) as required, but usually in the old Post Office bay or Platform 3 (in the case of Southern's 455 which runs ECS from Caterham prior to the start of service).

 

[andy19_64]

377606 and 377621 were stabled in the down sidings at Horsham last night. First time I have seen 2 x sets of 377/6s stabled there. However I found it strange that they are still being stabled here considering the Horsham-Dorking section is still closed. What are the 377/6 units that stable at Horsham overnight currently doing in the morning?

Out of the three services that are currently running from Victoria to Horsham in the evening two sets of 10 cars are berthing in the down sidings north. These form the 06.01 and the 06.45 (was 07.01 but that is another story) The third set of 377/6's make the 19.32 service back to Victoria but via Gatwick

 

[Class377/5]

601 in service today

06:49 Epsom – London Bridge
07:38 London Bridge – West Croydon
08:19 West Croydon – Victoria

Then alone

09:03 Victoria – Sutton
09:52 Sutton – Victoria
10:53 Victoria – Epsom
12:04 Epsom – Victoria
13:13 Victoria – Caterham
14:26 Caterham – Victoria
15:23 Victoria – Epsom Downs
16:28 Epsom Downs – Victoria

 

[Deepgreen]

I travelled on a 377/6 for the first time last night, from Epsom to Dorking. I was in the rear coach and noticed that the section from the front pair of doors to the rear of the coach was labelled as first class on the lateral partitions (i.e. permanently) but had 'First Class' window stickers on one side of the train but not on the other! There was no yellow cantrail band on the outside either, so what exactly are passengers supposed to glean about first class from the information provided!? What a mess. If it was intended to have sections of the unit availbale as standard or first class according to route, then proper switchable illuminated signs should have been provided to avoid confusion, as well as superior seats in the first section.

I also found the vertical plank seats exceptionally uncomfortable (they are identical in standard and (the alleged) first class sections, even lacking anti-maccassars in first. I am 6'2", so perhaps a shorter person would gain more comfort, but to me they are dire.