5x Class 153 conversion to bike and baggage vans for Scotrail

[HSTEd]

It won't look anything like as peculiar as something like a 'Tadpole' DEMU does

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It won't look anything like as peculiar as something like a 'Tadpole' DEMU does

I don't remember those (was it a slimline Hastings car with a standard-width Hampshire car?). I do remember the Thumpers that had a CEP trailer in the middle, they looked quite odd.

 

[HSTEd]

I don't remember those (was it a slimline Hastings car with a standard-width Hampshire car?). I do remember the Thumpers that had a CEP trailer in the middle, they looked quite odd.

It was a slimline hastings unit with an EPB driving trailer attached.

 

[adamedwards]

Anyone aware of any progress with this? It would be fab to have something running in 2019.

 

[dk1]

Anyone aware of any progress with this? It would be fab to have something running in 2019.

I would be amazed if any introduction happens next year. Some 153s should come off lease during the year but not in time for conversion to happen too. Possibly 2020?

 

[sprinterguy]

Anyone aware of any progress with this? It would be fab to have something running in 2019.

I would be amazed if any introduction happens next year. Some 153s should come off lease during the year but not in time for conversion to happen too. Possibly 2020?

Scotrail are currently tendering for a supplier to refurbish five class 153s to this spec, the first two to be delivered by 1st April 2019 ahead of a trial period of operation during summer 2019, the following three by 1st April 2020 once the design has been refined based on experience with the first two:

https://www.publiccontractsscotland.gov.uk/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=OCT333240
Scotrail requires a suitably qualified supplier who can develop a detailed engineering design and refurbish the 5 x Class 153 vehicles as per the design requirements. A high level concept design (3D rendered images) will be provided as an input as part of the ITT specifications. The purpose of this work is to modify the units, with a view to provide additional bike, sports equipment and luggage storage spaces. After the initial trial of two carriages during summer 2019, further refinement of the design may be required during autumn of 2019. The scope of work will be divided into two lots( Design & Build) and Bidders are permitted to bid for either or both lots.

The first unit should be accepted by the supplier for refurbishment by the end of the year, the second by the end of January 2019.

 

[dk1]

Scotrail are currently tendering for a supplier to refurbish five class 153s to this spec, the first two to be delivered by 1st April 2019 ahead of a trial period of operation during summer 2019, the following three by 1st April 2020 once the design has been refined based on experience with the first two:

The first unit should be accepted by the supplier for refurbishment by the end of the year, the second by the end of January 2019.

Wow that's far quicker than I was led to believe. Do we know unit numbers or from what franchise(s) these scuds are coming from?

 

[The_Engineer]

It was a slimline hastings unit with an EPB driving trailer attached.

Otherwise known as Tadpole Units, used between Reading and Tonbridge via the North Downs line

 

[InOban]

I haven't seen any announcement that this 153 project has been confirmed. As I read it, the promoters have been asked to get a price for the conversions, so that a business case can go to Transport Scotland.

 

[GrimShady]

Nothing in the spec about catering or micro buffet

Close but no cigar ScotRail!

 

[InOban]

Almost all WHL trains have a trolley. The priority is some more seats, and more space for bicycles and large luggage. Which should make it easier for the trolley to get down the train. The catering loses enough money as it is.

 

[GrimShady]

Almost all WHL trains have a trolley. The priority is some more seats, and more space for bicycles and large luggage. Which should make it easier for the trolley to get down the train. The catering loses enough money as it is.

The trolley is quite popular.

Interesting that only two have been specified at this time, one up and one down to Ft Will?

Don't think we (Oban) will see them untill 2020.

 

[InOban]

All train catering loses money, and expecting passengers to make their way to a microbuffet is likely to reduce sales.
I would have thought that they could only be attached to the Oban-only trains, since the others would be too long south of crianlarich if an extra coach were added.

 

[The_Engineer]

Interesting that only two have been specified at this time, one up and one down to Ft Will?

It implies it allows them to try the first two in service, and other changes they find are needed can then be incorporated in the other three and retrofitted to the first two before getting all five in service. It sounds a prudent measure to me!!

I agree on the buffet - it takes up permanent space that could otherwise be used for additional seating. If they make the catering service summer only for economic reasons then those additional seats may be needed in the summer!!!

 

[AndrewE]

It implies it allows them to try the first two in service, and other changes they find are needed can then be incorporated in the other three and retrofitted to the first two before getting all five in service. It sounds a prudent measure to me!!

I agree on the buffet - it takes up permanent space that could otherwise be used for additional seating. If they make the catering service summer only for economic reasons then those additional seats may be needed in the summer!!!

There won't be any seating if they are just to be luggage vans (as mooted.) A buffet trolley could be parked / stowed in them I suppose.

 

[InOban]

Only mooted on this thread. 23m of luggage space? Bonkers.

Certain services left Oban this summer full and standing. Can't imagine what they were like by Dalmally. That's the issue for which the extra vehicle is needed.

 

[GrimShady]

Only mooted on this thread. 23m of luggage space? Bonkers.

Certain services left Oban this summer full and standing. Can't imagine what they were like by Dalmally. That's the issue for which the extra vehicle is needed.

Seperate the trains. Go back in independent WHL services.

 

[The_Engineer]

There won't be any seating if they are just to be luggage vans (as mooted.) A buffet trolley could be parked / stowed in them I suppose.

Personally, I don't think they will need a full 23m car length for bikes and rucksacks, even in peak summer use. But, I am sure we will soon find out when get to see these 3D interior aspirational pictures, as they will be in the tender

I think the 153 cars will be removed and stored in winter, otherwise they would be carrying empty space in winter (and using unnecessary fuel)....

 

[jopsuk]

Wow that's far quicker than I was led to believe. Do we know unit numbers or from what franchise(s) these scuds are coming from?

Assuming that the bi-mode introduction goes well, I'd have thought Greater Anglia- there's 5x153 in that fleet. Even if the bi-modes are initially introduced replacing turbostars (especially on Cambridge & Peterborough services), it would allow a cascade immediately increasing capacity on all other routes, getting rid of the 153s first?

 

[GrimShady]

Personally, I don't think they will need a full 23m car length for bikes and rucksacks, even in peak summer use. But, I am sure we will soon find out when get to see these 3D interior aspirational pictures, as they will be in the tender

I think the 153 cars will be removed and stored in winter, otherwise they would be carrying empty space in winter (and using unnecessary fuel)....

A full coach dedicated to luggage does seem excessive.

 

[jopsuk]

Seperate the trains. Go back in independent WHL services.

Is there sufficient capacity between Crianlarich & Helensburgh, between Dalreoch & Dalmuir and, crucially, at Queen Street? Based on maintaining at least the same number of services to and from both Oban & Fort William. Obviously the increased frequency would be appreciated at all stops between Tyndrum and Helensburgh

 

[hexagon789]

I had only a quick look back through this thread so it's possible I missed it, but I was under the impression that the idea was:

1. To fit the 153s in the middle of 156 WHL-dedicated sets
2. That they would have seating as well as luggage/cycle space.

Has that changed or have I misunderstood the original concept?

 

[GrimShady]

Is there sufficient capacity between Crianlarich & Helensburgh, between Dalreoch & Dalmuir and, crucially, at Queen Street? Based on maintaining at least the same number of services to and from both Oban & Fort William. Obviously the increased frequency would be appreciated at all stops between Tyndrum and Helensburgh

Certainly during off peak hours there's plenty of space at QS. Paths...I don't know, someone with more intel will be able to answer that one.

Aren't we only talking about the addition of one extra path and space at QS?

 

[Bertie the bus]

Scotrail are currently tendering for a supplier to refurbish five class 153s to this spec, the first two to be delivered by 1st April 2019 ahead of a trial period of operation during summer 2019, the following three by 1st April 2020 once the design has been refined based on experience with the first two:

If the current new builds, refurbs and conversions are anything to go by the guess of maybe 2020 for the first one is likely to be accurate.

 

[AndrewE]

I had only a quick look back through this thread so it's possible I missed it, but I was under the impression that the idea was:

1. To fit the 153s in the middle of 156 WHL-dedicated sets
2. That they would have seating as well as luggage/cycle space.

Has that changed or have I misunderstood the original concept?

The very first post in the thread includes the quote:

The Scottish Government has started talks with ScotRail over the provision of carriages with space for outdoor equipment, including bicycles, on some of the nation’s scenic railways.

The Government’s programme for 2017-18 committed to taking forward work on “introducing dedicated carriages for cycles and other outdoor sports equipment on rural routes in the north and west”

To me a "dedicated carriage" implies - no, can only mean - exclusively for the use of.
I don't know why InOban thinks it's "Only mooted on this thread."

 

[hexagon789]

The very first post in the thread includes the quote:
To me a "dedicated carriage" implies - no, can only mean - exclusively for the use of.
I don't know why InOban thinks it's "Only mooted on this thread."

Oh I have read that bit, but it's hardly 100% unambiguous. I accept I could well be wrong but I am almost positive I read either online or in a magazine articke that the 153s would have seating and be about 50% luggage space/50% seats or something like that.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Very unlikely the whole carriage will be dedicated to bikes and luggage despite the meaning of one word in one document.

The tender spec linked to by sprinterguy states:

The scope of work for Lot 2 will include, but is not limited to:
- Strip of existing vehicle
- Installation of cycle and outdoor activity equipment storage
- Corrosion rectification
- PRM compliance modifications installation
- Vehicle enhancement modifications installation (CCTV, PIS, power sockets etc.)
- Interior refresh
- External Livery application

Why would you internally refresh and add PIS and power sockets to what would basically be a luggage van?

 

[GrimShady]

Oh I have read that bit, but it's hardly 100% unambiguous. I accept I could well be wrong but I am almost positive I read either online or in a magazine articke that the 153s would have seating and be about 50% luggage space/50% seats or something like that.

I also seen that article. Can't remember for the life of me where I seen it.

 

[hexagon789]

I also seen that article. Can't remember for the life of me where I seen it.

The back of my mind is saying Today's Railways but I could be wrong and I certainly cannot recall the issue or if it's another publication even which month.

 

[GrimShady]

Oh I have read that bit, but it's hardly 100% unambiguous. I accept I could well be wrong but I am almost positive I read either online or in a magazine articke that the 153s would have seating and be about 50% luggage space/50% seats or something like that.

Maybe LIAR?