A career as a train driver

[Training]

Hi all.

I have combed through this excellent thread now and many others on these forums in advance of my assessment for Driver Stage One. A huge amount has been answered - thank you - however I have shared the below Qs for some clarity, if anybody might be able to share the answers with me?

Re the GB test. I’m cherry with the practice GB stuff and will be printing some sheets out tomorrow…

Q. Dows anyone know if the GB test on the day will be A4 or A3 sheets?

Re the TEA-OCC. Read a couple of threads about this and think I have it right that the test is basically listening to tones and counting those which are low only… then matching symbols in a directory… then both at once.

Q. Are the tones spaced out as in do they have clear seconds between them… or do they get fired out you at pace so you are counting quickly?

Q. Are the instructions clear that we should only be looking for identical double symbols only and ignoring everything else? What is the other information there for… could this method trip us up if we need to find a certain area code too?

Q. Is the directory page a single page or multiple pages? Is it A4 or A3? Does it matter if you go left to right (as it does for GB) or can you score marks anywhere on the page at all

Q. In the third phase where you have to do both the directory and the tones are you counting tones constantly throughout to one final number, or counting separate sets of tones within the same exercise so that you end up with perhaps five different numbers at the end of the exercise?

Re the TRP1. The GLOP exercise.

Do you lose marks if you put a wrong multiple choice answer down? I.e if you are running out of time is it best to quickly fill all of the answers in, in the hope of getting a couple correct, or would this harm your score if you have guessed them all incorrect?

Q. Is the audio information played and the written copy handed out at the same time, or one before the other? At what point does the timer start?

Re the TRP2. Dials and cables.

Q. Again same question as above re guessing the multiple choice?

Q. Are there any close simulations of this available that others could recommend for practice?

Q. Do you need to have a basic understanding of electrics and or physics as some have suggested to be successful in this test?

Q. And finally… can you take your own stop watch into the examination to keep time?

A lot of questions there but hopefully some easy answers to give for those that know and/or have recent experience of the test centre.

Thanks again for all of the helpful information and congratulations to those who are posting that they are passing!

 

[iwasyoungonce]

Do you lose marks if you put a wrong multiple choice answer down? I.e if you are running out of time is it best to quickly fill all of the answers in, in the hope of getting a couple correct, or would this harm your score if you have guessed them all incorrect?

Would you really want your family travelling on a train driven by someone who had guessed their way through the testing process ?

 

[MostlyHarmless]

Hi all.

I have combed through this excellent thread now and many others on these forums in advance of my assessment for Driver Stage One. A huge amount has been answered - thank you - however I have shared the below Qs for some clarity, if anybody might be able to share the answers with me?

Re the GB test. I’m cherry with the practice GB stuff and will be printing some sheets out tomorrow…

Q. Dows anyone know if the GB test on the day will be A4 or A3 sheets?

Re the TEA-OCC. Read a couple of threads about this and think I have it right that the test is basically listening to tones and counting those which are low only… then matching symbols in a directory… then both at once.

Q. Are the tones spaced out as in do they have clear seconds between them… or do they get fired out you at pace so you are counting quickly?

Q. Are the instructions clear that we should only be looking for identical double symbols only and ignoring everything else? What is the other information there for… could this method trip us up if we need to find a certain area code too?

Q. Is the directory page a single page or multiple pages? Is it A4 or A3? Does it matter if you go left to right (as it does for GB) or can you score marks anywhere on the page at all

Q. In the third phase where you have to do both the directory and the tones are you counting tones constantly throughout to one final number, or counting separate sets of tones within the same exercise so that you end up with perhaps five different numbers at the end of the exercise?

Re the TRP1. The GLOP exercise.

Do you lose marks if you put a wrong multiple choice answer down? I.e if you are running out of time is it best to quickly fill all of the answers in, in the hope of getting a couple correct, or would this harm your score if you have guessed them all incorrect?

Q. Is the audio information played and the written copy handed out at the same time, or one before the other? At what point does the timer start?

Re the TRP2. Dials and cables.

Q. Again same question as above re guessing the multiple choice?

Don't worry about any of this stuff. It will all be explained very clearly on the day and if you are unsure you can always ask questions

Q. Are there any close simulations of this available that others could recommend for practice?

Q. Do you need to have a basic understanding of electrics and or physics as some have suggested to be successful in this test?

No and No

Q. And finally… can you take your own stop watch into the examination to keep time?

I'm not sure but I would suggest that if you're constantly looking at a stopwatch you're going to be wasting valuable time. Most of these test are very short so you won't have a lot of time to complete them

A lot of questions there but hopefully some easy answers to give for those that know and/or have recent experience of the test centre.

Thanks again for all of the helpful information and congratulations to those who are posting that they are passing!

Good luck with you assessment day

 

[NorthernTech]

From passing the tests fairly recently I’d say:

Mainly spend a lot of time going through the testing booklet that the TOC/FOC sends you, all the information for each test is all in there. Print off a load of Group Bourdon (dots) tests and just regularly practice. No one can tell you the answers to the tests, whether it’s speed or accuracy but I’d say treat it like driving a train….you wouldn’t want to make mistakes in the job, accuracy I’d say is key.

As for the rest, I’ve done tests at two test centres, and they explain the tests carefully before you start. Nothing to worry about, you can ask questions, they are helpful and give you time to practice where necessary.

And, as usual, search and read as much as you can on this forum.

Best of luck.

 

[LFS1906]

Off topic, but do you get two lives for guards and two lives for drivers in the OPC assessments?

 

[Twotwo]

Hi all.

I have combed through this excellent thread now and many others on these forums in advance of my assessment for Driver Stage One. A huge amount has been answered - thank you - however I have shared the below Qs for some clarity, if anybody might be able to share the answers with me?

Re the GB test. I’m cherry with the practice GB stuff and will be printing some sheets out tomorrow…

Q. Dows anyone know if the GB test on the day will be A4 or A3 sheets?

Re the TEA-OCC. Read a couple of threads about this and think I have it right that the test is basically listening to tones and counting those which are low only… then matching symbols in a directory… then both at once.

Q. Are the tones spaced out as in do they have clear seconds between them… or do they get fired out you at pace so you are counting quickly?

Q. Are the instructions clear that we should only be looking for identical double symbols only and ignoring everything else? What is the other information there for… could this method trip us up if we need to find a certain area code too?

Q. Is the directory page a single page or multiple pages? Is it A4 or A3? Does it matter if you go left to right (as it does for GB) or can you score marks anywhere on the page at all

Q. In the third phase where you have to do both the directory and the tones are you counting tones constantly throughout to one final number, or counting separate sets of tones within the same exercise so that you end up with perhaps five different numbers at the end of the exercise?

Re the TRP1. The GLOP exercise.

Do you lose marks if you put a wrong multiple choice answer down? I.e if you are running out of time is it best to quickly fill all of the answers in, in the hope of getting a couple correct, or would this harm your score if you have guessed them all incorrect?

Q. Is the audio information played and the written copy handed out at the same time, or one before the other? At what point does the timer start?

Re the TRP2. Dials and cables.

Q. Again same question as above re guessing the multiple choice?

Q. Are there any close simulations of this available that others could recommend for practice?

Q. Do you need to have a basic understanding of electrics and or physics as some have suggested to be successful in this test?

Q. And finally… can you take your own stop watch into the examination to keep time?

A lot of questions there but hopefully some easy answers to give for those that know and/or have recent experience of the test centre.

Thanks again for all of the helpful information and congratulations to those who are posting that they are passing!

Your reading wayyyy into it. Everything will be explained on the day. By trying to get ahead , your just going to confuse yourself. This forum is great there's plenty of help here, just read through everything and most of the questions you've asked have probably already been answered.

 

[DanInHisDen]

Soon I will be leaving school (currently sitting my GCSEs), what railway careers could I do? or what aprenticeships are availible?

 

[Hull D]

Soon I will be leaving school (currently sitting my GCSEs), what railway careers could I do? or what aprenticeships are availible?

You name it, they do it on the railway!
Depends what you are interested in; engineering etc?
You will need to be 18 to work any job on the railway.......... Have a look at network rail apprenticeships!!

 

[Training]

Anyone know if the TRP1 and TRP2 multiple choice tests are negatively marked?

As in if you put the wrong answer/no answer at all you lose a mark?

Still searching for the answer to this and can’t find anywhere!

Thanks in advance!

 

[Shunted]

Anyone know if the TRP1 and TRP2 multiple choice tests are negatively marked?

As in if you put the wrong answer/no answer at all you lose a mark?

Still searching for the answer to this and can’t find anywhere!

Thanks in advance!

I don’t think they’ll be negatively marked but just a case of if you don’t get the required amount right then you’ll fail

Obviously the ones which are negatively marked are the dots test and perception test

 

[NorthernTech]

Anyone know if the TRP1 and TRP2 multiple choice tests are negatively marked?

As in if you put the wrong answer/no answer at all you lose a mark?

Still searching for the answer to this and can’t find anywhere!

Thanks in advance!

The opc test information is more closely guarded than the Crown Jewels! You will never get an exact answer to what constitutes a pass or fail to any of the tests, you will only be able to get a rough idea from those that have passed the tests already. The best thing is to thoroughly read the information sent out in the test pack by the Toc/Foc and then do plenty of regular practice. As said before, the test examiners explain everything on the day and give you time to practice or ask questions. Some things you just can’t practice. There are answers to most questions already on the forum, use the search button at the top right.

 

[Training]

The opc test information is more closely guarded than the Crown Jewels! You will never get an exact answer to what constitutes a pass or fail to any of the tests, you will only be able to get a rough idea from those that have passed the tests already. The best thing is to thoroughly read the information sent out in the test pack by the Toc/Foc and then do plenty of regular practice. As said before, the test examiners explain everything on the day and give you time to practice or ask questions. Some things you just can’t practice. There are answers to most questions already on the forum, use the search button at the top right.

Thanks for the replies all.

Obviously speed and accuracy are both important… was trying to get a feel for a situation where I might have 10 seconds left and five questions still to go… better off putting something down over nothing in the hope of tagging a mark on the ones that are not negatively marked, surely?

 

[Twotwo]

Thanks for the replies all.

Obviously speed and accuracy are both important… was trying to get a feel for a situation where I might have 10 seconds left and five questions still to go… better off putting something down over nothing in the hope of tagging a mark on the ones that are not negatively marked, surely?

No one knows so it's best not to do that incase you are negatively marked. It's common sense really.

 

[Training]

No one knows so it's best not to do that incase you are nff

No one knows so it's best not to do that incase you are negatively marked. It's common sense really.

Yes does make sense... will play it safe.

Anyone know if you are marked in the same way on the TEA-OCC (circling the symbols) in the same way as the Group Bouden... i.e is it best to read the paper line by line, left to right again or are there sufficient symbols on the page to be able to read it anyway you want (enough time to actually circle them all, I mean).

Cheers!

 

[Plodster]

you are given very clear instructions for the Group Bourdon
Work from left to right of the page and then move down to the next line working left to right and repeat for 2 minutes when you are told to change to the next page and then repeat the process

as I recall it’s up to you how you complete TEA-OCC

it’s all explained well on the day

keep practicing there’s loads of stuff out there and best of luck when it comes around

 

[Razvan]

Hi Sean, congratulations for your success.
I’m thinking to start an application for a trainee train driver but I’m a bit unsure about the online questions and I don’t want to start the application yet until I have a clear knowledge of what to expect. Could you please inform me about what sort of questions will they ask and if there is a timing I need to take in consideration when answering? Thank you

After four applications and over two years as a guard I’ve recently passed all interviews and assessments for train driver. My first three applications didn’t make it past the sift. My current successful application was for internals only, which gives you potentially a better chance I think. Many thanks to everyone on here for the very helpful information and advice. I managed to pass the assessments first time. I’ve been put on hold for a training course but I’m confident I’ll get a place over the next few months.

 

[Nuttygooner]

Hi Sean, congratulations for your success.
I’m thinking to start an application for a trainee train driver but I’m a bit unsure about the online questions and I don’t want to start the application yet until I have a clear knowledge of what to expect. Could you please inform me about what sort of questions will they ask and if there is a timing I need to take in consideration when answering? Thank you

The key and important question you need to know the answer to, before applying to be a trainee Train driver, is;

Do I really want to become a train driver?

If the answer is "Yes!" then get stuck in, read the instructions, answer honestly. When you are out there, on your own, there's going to be no one holding your hand. If you need your hand held to answer questions that only you can answer, then you need to have a word with yourself.

However, if the answer is "Yes, but...", "I'm not sure...", "Well, if someone could tell me..." then don't.

The reality is that there are a lot of people going for trainee train driver jobs, it's a very desirable position. It's been addressed on other threads that we are all effectively competing for a rather small number of positions. Why would I, or anyone, give someone a potential heads up over questions, or coaching, to give an edge over me or anyone else?

I wish you lots of luck and success, but I am not prepared to help anyone cheat the system by coaching them through the assessments or questions. Sorry.

 

[Gorlash1886]

The key and important question you need to know the answer to, before applying to be a trainee Train driver, is;

Do I really want to become a train driver?

If the answer is "Yes!" then get stuck in, read the instructions, answer honestly. When you are out there, on your own, there's going to be no one holding your hand. If you need your hand held to answer questions that only you can answer, then you need to have a word with yourself.

However, if the answer is "Yes, but...", "I'm not sure...", "Well, if someone could tell me..." then don't.

The reality is that there are a lot of people going for trainee train driver jobs, it's a very desirable position. It's been addressed on other threads that we are all effectively competing for a rather small number of positions. Why would I, or anyone, give someone a potential heads up over questions, or coaching, to give an edge over themselves or anyone else?

I wish you lots of luck and success, but I am not prepared to help anyone cheat the system by coaching them through the assessments or questions. Sorry.

Whilst this message may seem a bit pessimistic I do tend to agree, this post by itself has over 2000 messages in it full of information, the forum also has the search function for every aspect of the application. Surely some degree of research can be done without asking the same questions as many other people.

 

[meta662]

Good afternoon,

Over the past few days I've been doing a lot of research on the prospect of becoming a train driver.

I understand that there are endless amounts of useful information scattered across the forum, and during my research I have picked up a few questions I would like to ask this community.

- I understand that if you fail the parametrics test, you cannot apply for another TOC until 6 months has passed. I've read somewhere that it's the same case with the MMI (Multimodal Interview) - why is this? Couldn't someone just be nervous for the MMI on the day and have a bad day? It wouldn't effect their ability to drive? 6 months seems like a big consequence for failing your MMI.

- Why do TOCs advertise for trainee driver positions - when they can advertise for Qualified Driver positions and just keep them in a talent pool? I would've thought there would be plenty of qualified drivers about to fill in the gaps for those approaching retirement.

- I've recently seen Avanti, LNER and Cross Country advertise for trainee positions this month. Bit of a shot in the dark asking this because it depends on the company's demands, but on estimate how often do TOCs advertise for trainee roles?

- Is there some sort of age bias for trainee train driver positions? I'm saying this because I'm currently 20 years old and most drivers I've seen do not tend to me around this age. Part of me believes this may be due to experience in a working environment, more specifically a more responsible role.

I appreciate any responses and advice given. I'm sure this information will be of great help for people such as myself doing research.

 

[16.19]

Good afternoon,

Over the past few days I've been doing a lot of research on the prospect of becoming a train driver.

I understand that there are endless amounts of useful information scattered across the forum, and during my research I have picked up a few questions I would like to ask this community.

- I understand that if you fail the parametrics test, you cannot apply for another TOC until 6 months has passed. I've read somewhere that it's the same case with the MMI (Multimodal Interview) - why is this? Couldn't someone just be nervous for the MMI on the day and have a bad day? It wouldn't effect their ability to drive? 6 months seems like a big consequence for failing your MMI.

- Why do TOCs advertise for trainee driver positions - when they can advertise for Qualified Driver positions and just keep them in a talent pool? I would've thought there would be plenty of qualified drivers about to fill in the gaps for those approaching retirement.

- I've recently seen Avanti, LNER and Cross Country advertise for trainee positions this month. Bit of a shot in the dark asking this because it depends on the company's demands, but on estimate how often do TOCs advertise for trainee roles?

- Is there some sort of age bias for trainee train driver positions? I'm saying this because I'm currently 20 years old and most drivers I've seen do not tend to me around this age. Part of me believes this may be due to experience in a working environment, more specifically a more responsible role.

I appreciate any responses and advice given. I'm sure this information will be of great help for people such as myself doing research.

The whole recruitment process, including your MMI, is design to find candidates that can work under pressure when things go wrong. Having a bad day can and sometimes does effect driving.

In regards to trainee drivers and qualified drivers; there is a shortage of qualified drivers in the UK believe it of not. In addition to that, ToCs are now more in favor of offering apprenticeships as they then get paid when you pass your driving course. This is the way it willl go for the foreseable future. Advertisement for trainee / apprentice roles differ.

The only age restrictions for drivers are that you must be (I believe, but could be wrong) at least 22 when you qualify. There is no bias, we have a lot of young new drivers at Leeds.

 

[baz962]

Can't really say how often they recruit for trainees , although once or twice a year seems about right for a lot of tocs . That can vary though. As for the psychometric tests , no one really knows . Train of thought ( pun intended ) is that they want people that can naturally pass them without practice. Train driving is a job that even once qualified , stuff can happen that you aren't expecting and you need to keep a cool head . If you are the sort of person that panics , then the psychometric test should pick that up. No age bias . As for taking qualified drivers , well if toc A have lots of retirements and get drivers from toc B , then toc B would be short of drivers. Retirements have to be replaced , not shuffled around.

 

[si_145653]

The whole recruitment process, including your MMI, is design to find candidates that can work under pressure when things go wrong. Having a bad day can and sometimes does effect driving.

In regards to trainee drivers and qualified drivers; there is a shortage of qualified drivers in the UK believe it of not. In addition to that, ToCs are now more in favor of offering apprenticeships as they then get paid when you pass your driving course. This is the way it willl go for the foreseable future. Advertisement for trainee / apprentice roles differ.

The only age restrictions for drivers are that you must be (I believe, but could be wrong) at least 22 when you qualify. There is no bias, we have a lot of young new drivers at Leeds.

I have seen a few people comment that there is a shortage of qualified drivers which makes me wonder why we haven’t seen more recruitment for trainees to solve that issue. GWR haven’t advertised trainees (at least in my area) for a while but have been advertising a qualified talent pool for some time.

 

[wobman]

I have seen a few people comment that there is a shortage of qualified drivers which makes me wonder why we haven’t seen more recruitment for trainees to solve that issue. GWR haven’t advertised trainees (at least in my area) for a while but have been advertising a qualified talent pool for some time.

It's far cheaper to pitch qualified drivers from other tocs and much quicker way of filling vacancies, my depot have lost 2 drivers recently and another 2 are definitely going soon. Plus a few are looking at vacancies that have recently been advertised, this is a regular occurance at some tocs and depots, unfortunately senior management just don't understand this or just ignore this happening.

 

[Rockhopper]

The main reason you wont see many very young drivers is that they mostly lack the life skills that TOC's are after such as the "tell me about a time you...." type questions.

 

[Legion]

Silly question, but how would TOC's react if someone applied for conductor or any other role and was honest from the beginning in saying something like: ''I want to work on the railway and being a train driver is my ultimate goal. If such an opportunity arises, I will apply for it and if successful I will take the offer.''

If it was me, I wouldn't hire said candidate because then I will have to hire again and train someone else to do his job when/if they go on to be trained as a driver. But perhaps they actually admire the persistence in wanting to work there and looking for a way in, considering they also know that internal applicants perhaps get priority for future roles?

I don't assume that someone has actually expressed that to an interview/application and has a success story to share?

 

[Nuttygooner]

Silly question, but how would TOC's react if someone applied for conductor or any other role and was honest from the beginning in saying something like: ''I want to work on the railway and being a train driver is my ultimate goal. If such an opportunity arises, I will apply for it and if successful I will take the offer.''

From the interviewers I know, it tends not to go down well, with one interviewer well known at my TOC for saying "Why on earth should I hire you, invest my time and energy in you when you already have one foot out of the door?"

TOCs spend a lot of money and invest a lot of time in Conductors/TM's/Guards, with rules training, PTS, Uniform (which tends to differ from drivers), Routes etc, probably not the best idea to state from the off that you don't want to do the job you are being interviewed for.

 

[Legion]

From the interviewers I know, it tends not to go down well, with one interviewer well known at my TOC for saying "Why on earth should I hire you, invest my time and energy in you when you already have one foot out of the door?"

TOCs spend a lot of money and invest a lot of time in Conductors/TM's/Guards, with rules training, PTS, Uniform (which tends to differ from drivers), Routes etc, probably not the best idea to state from the off that you don't want to do the job you are being interviewed for.

Yep, makes perfect sense to be honest.

 

[YingYing]

Silly question, but how would TOC's react if someone applied for conductor or any other role and was honest from the beginning in saying something like: ''I want to work on the railway and being a train driver is my ultimate goal. If such an opportunity arises, I will apply for it and if successful I will take the offer.'

As above, it's not advisable, however I did mention it in an interview once and was invited to a medical. I think it depends how you word it and when you say it. If they ask something like where do you see yourself in 5 years time, perhaps suggest it then. Basically, don't come across as though you're going to use it as a stepping stone and rush towards another job, and instead try and phrase it as developing within the company.

 

[387star]

Good afternoon,

Over the past few days I've been doing a lot of research on the prospect of becoming a train driver.

I understand that there are endless amounts of useful information scattered across the forum, and during my research I have picked up a few questions I would like to ask this community.

- I understand that if you fail the parametrics test, you cannot apply for another TOC until 6 months has passed. I've read somewhere that it's the same case with the MMI (Multimodal Interview) - why is this? Couldn't someone just be nervous for the MMI on the day and have a bad day? It wouldn't effect their ability to drive? 6 months seems like a big consequence for failing your MMI.

- Why do TOCs advertise for trainee driver positions - when they can advertise for Qualified Driver positions and just keep them in a talent pool? I would've thought there would be plenty of qualified drivers about to fill in the gaps for those approaching retirement.

- I've recently seen Avanti, LNER and Cross Country advertise for trainee positions this month. Bit of a shot in the dark asking this because it depends on the company's demands, but on estimate how often do TOCs advertise for trainee roles?

- Is there some sort of age bias for trainee train driver positions? I'm saying this because I'm currently 20 years old and most drivers I've seen do not tend to me around this age. Part of me believes this may be due to experience in a working environment, more specifically a more responsible role.

I appreciate any responses and advice given. I'm sure this information will be of great help for people such as myself doing research.

More trainee jobs are apprenticeship schemes these days. The companies gave incentive to take on trainees. Cynic in me says maybe the Gov want to suppress wages by reducing Qualified Drivers jumping across companies

 

[NorthernTech]

- Why do TOCs advertise for trainee driver positions - when they can advertise for Qualified Driver positions and just keep them in a talent pool? I would've thought there would be plenty of qualified drivers about to fill in the gaps for those approaching retirement.

People leave, retire etc, the gaps have to be filled. If no one were to be trained then eventually there wouldn’t be any qualified drivers.