A career as a train driver

[genziu8181]

Good evening all,

Hope this is allowed but please delete if not. I’m just wondering if anybody has any information please, regarding me joining to become a train driver? I’m 40 years old and based in the midlands.
Does anyone know if there’s a chance I could be accepted during a recruitment window or am I too old at 40?

Many thanks
Wes

I'm starting now aged 42 so no problem at all

Cool! All done now, just waiting for joining instructions. Start date is 16.10 Don’t know anything else than that

Hi. Joining instructions should follow soon but don't you have in your contract where to report on your first day. I have person name and phone number

 

[Judgedools]

Congratulations. I have applied

Hi.
I have applied April 2019, test completed in December 2019. DMI December 2020 due to COVIiD, had my medical 22.08 and starting date 16.10 for Plymouth. Maybe we will be on the same course. I am also very curious about training and how does it look like

Congratulations on that. I started at Exeter a couple months ago. There's a lot to take in that's for sure. Make sure you understand how to fill in the timesheets correctly, otherwise you don't get paid, talking from experience.

Helloooo!
I’ve been given the long awaited call offering me a position as trainee train driver for Exeter St David’s! Medical and uniform measurements on 29th August. I started the application process in Summer of 2019! And placed in the talent pool January 2020. Kinda gave up hope but made sure I kept my application active just in case. They told me they’re not sure as to what training scheme they’ll put me on. One is a diploma NVQ3 at college
Does anyone know what other course there is or indeed what college training entails??? How long it lasts?? Also do GWR offer Dental insurance?
I appreciate that all these answers I can get later on but really want to find out ASAP!

Congratulations lee70. Sounds like we did our applications and test at the same time. I started last month at Exeter on the NVQ route. If you're starting mid Oct you won't be doing that. Lucky you.

 

[Chandraman tam]

Hi all,

Any lead or suggestion on starting a new career in railway sector. I want to start as apprentice train driver... currently located at Reading. Any helps are warmly welcomed.

 

[12LDA28C]

Hi all,

Any lead or suggestion on starting a new career in railway sector. I want to start as apprentice train driver... currently located at Reading. Any helps are warmly welcomed.

I'm not sure what advice you expect, beyond keeping your eye out for any jobs advertised and then apply? Bear in mind that several hundred people will apply for every one apprentice driver position advertised so competition is fierce. There are usually one or two initial stages of sifting to weed out unsuitable applicants before those who get through will be sent for psychometric testing which is quite demanding. There is plenty of advice on this forum about ways to increase your chances of success at the testing stage.

 

[Aviator88]

I don’t regret taking the job but the shifts are extreme.
You can be working any hour of any day.
At times no matter how sensible you are and no matter how many techniques you use, trying to get to sleep at 4/5pm to be up at midnight and in the depot for 1am can be really difficult.
Then when your alarm goes off at midnight and you’ve managed a grand total of 1 hours sleep you come in to work and use caffeine to get you through the day.
The problem is you then get home and can’t get a good nights sleep because of all the caffeine so there’s another poor nights sleep.
The second day is when it can hit you I find and then you have the decision to make of do I dare phone in unfit for work or do I rely on caffeine again and just hope then I’m tired enough to get a good amount of sleep when I finish the day.

This isn’t every day but it’s something that can take its toll that a lot don’t think about.

The job demand a lot of concentration and when you are tired you know about it and it can be unnerving at times.

I currently work shifts (alternating days and nights each week), and have found what I consider to be the most robust method of tackling it. Using nights -> days as an example (as they are arguably the worst), the trick is not to stress about your sleep cycle on your first day or two off. Don't even consider it. Enjoy the time you have away from work.

Now, use the '1 to 2 rule'. This assumes that each hour of sleep buys you two hours of useful wakefulness. With this method, when it's 10 PM two days before your 1 AM shift, you simply go to sleep, but you purposely deprive yourself of your full 8 hours as follows.

Say you need to wake up two hours before your shift, I.e. 11 PM the following day. You need to sleep at 3 PM in order to get your full 8 hours. You simply calculate the time between now (when you're going to sleep), and the time you need to go to sleep before your shift. In this case, it's 10 PM until 3 PM the following day, which is 17 hours. Divide this by 3, which is 5 hrs 40 mins. This is how long you should sleep, so set an alarm for 3:40 AM. The idea is that this will give you (2 x 5:40) 11 hrs 20 mins of wakefulness, thus you'll be tired at 3:40 AM + 11:20 = 3 PM. You then sleep for your 8 hrs and voila.

Everybody is different, and this method makes a lot of assumptions and doesn't respect the fact that the sleep/wakefulness relationship isn't entirely linear. However, I've used this method for well over a decade and whilst I've probably axed ten years off my life expectancy, and certainly felt tired at work at times, I've never been truly fatigued and in danger of falling asleep. I've always managed a minimum of 4 hours doing it this way.

I know it's a bit of a pain with the maths etc, but it really is a good method for people like me who can't sleep on demand. Also, a strong cup of coffee at the start of your shift can augment this, but stay away from it after that and stick to water, as you'll risk affecting your next night's sleep.

 

[AverageJoe]

I currently work shifts (alternating days and nights each week), and have found what I consider to be the most robust method of tackling it. Using nights -> days as an example (as they are arguably the worst), the trick is not to stress about your sleep cycle on your first day or two off. Don't even consider it. Enjoy the time you have away from work.

Now, use the '1 to 2 rule'. This assumes that each hour of sleep buys you two hours of useful wakefulness. With this method, when it's 10 PM two days before your 1 AM shift, you simply go to sleep, but you purposely deprive yourself of your full 8 hours as follows.

Say you need to wake up two hours before your shift, I.e. 11 PM the following day. You need to sleep at 3 PM in order to get your full 8 hours. You simply calculate the time between now (when you're going to sleep), and the time you need to go to sleep before your shift. In this case, it's 10 PM until 3 PM the following day, which is 17 hours. Divide this by 3, which is 5 hrs 40 mins. This is how long you should sleep, so set an alarm for 3:40 AM. The idea is that this will give you (2 x 5:40) 11 hrs 20 mins of wakefulness, thus you'll be tired at 3:40 AM + 11:20 = 3 PM. You then sleep for your 8 hrs and voila.

Everybody is different, and this method makes a lot of assumptions and doesn't respect the fact that the sleep/wakefulness relationship isn't entirely linear. However, I've used this method for well over a decade and whilst I've probably axed ten years off my life expectancy, and certainly felt tired at work at times, I've never been truly fatigued and in danger of falling asleep. I've always managed a minimum of 4 hours doing it this way.

I know it's a bit of a pain with the maths etc, but it really is a good method for people like me who can't sleep on demand. Also, a strong cup of coffee at the start of your shift can augment this, but stay away from it after that and stick to water, as you'll risk affecting your next night's sleep.

If I struggle to sleep ill just read this message again and that will send me off only joking.

Interesting theory and I’m no expert so it could work but I don’t like the idea of purposely going in to the first day of a safety critical job with potentially no sleep.

The idea you suggest wouldn’t work for me I don’t think because on that first night I’d go to bed at 10pm and then could still find myself unable to sleep because I’d go to bed knowing I must instantly sleep or I’ll be exhausted, that in itself would make me struggle to sleep.

 

[Aviator88]

If I struggle to sleep ill just read this message again and that will send me off only joking.

Interesting theory and I’m no expert so it could work but I don’t like the idea of purposely going in to the first day of a safety critical job with potentially no sleep.

The idea you suggest wouldn’t work for me I don’t think because on that first night I’d go to bed at 10pm and then could still find myself unable to sleep because I’d go to bed knowing I must instantly sleep or I’ll be exhausted, that in itself would make me struggle to sleep.

Touché

It would still work in that example - if you didn't get tired until 2 AM, you just adjust the figures. It becomes 13 divided by 3, I.e. 4 hrs 20. Alarm goes off at 6:20 AM, you're awake for 8 hrs 40 and again, asleep by 3 PM. That's the beauty of it, it's practically bulletproof.

Again, I've never slept less than 4 hours prior to my first shift using this. Usually 6-8 hrs.

Remember, the 10 PM example is two days prior to the 1 AM start. The idea is that any sleep deprivation occurs during the previous sleep cycle (on your last day off, i.e. when it's not safety critical), guaranteeing that you'll sleep well immediately before your shift.

It may not work for everyone, but I've never been able to just shut my eyes and sleep on command, hence why I had to find a tried and tested way to beat the clock!

 

[Chandraman tam]

I'm not sure what advice you expect, beyond keeping your eye out for any jobs advertised and then apply? Bear in mind that several hundred people will apply for every one apprentice driver position advertised so competition is fierce. There are usually one or two initial stages of sifting to weed out unsuitable applicants before those who get through will be sent for psychometric testing which is quite demanding. There is plenty of advice on this forum about ways to increase your chances of success at the testing stage.

Thank you...

 

[soswales]

Morning,

I currently work as a signaller and I am in the process of considering changing career to become a train driver as that's something I've always wanted to do. However, I know very little on what it's actually like on a day to day basis for a train driver in the sense of shifts, morale, the training provided etc. If anyone can help me I would REALLY appreciate it to help with my decision.

I currently work 12 hour shifts so get a lot of time off work. I'm guessing drivers can't work long shifts due to fatigue and concentration levels, so how does this affect how many days a week a driver works? What would a typical weekly roster be for a Cross Country train driver?

I'm interested in the Bristol depot in particular - does anyone have any experience with what the routes are like and the depot itself, management etc.

In regards to training, as a signaller I had to go to signalling school for 12/13 weeks which was residential (hotel/NWR campus). I'm guessing this is the same for driver training? Where is XC training centres and does anyone have any experience of their training course?

In regards to salary, I would be taking a massive drop initially. Does anyone have an up to date pay scale please?
Does the salary increase after the initial training or once passing out with a driver trainer and going solo?

Once again, I appreciate anyone who takes the time to provide me any information in regards to XC to assist with making my final decision on changing from a signaller to a train driver.

And finally... I've always fancied GWR as a preference for applying to be a train driver. If you was to pick between GWR or XC, which would you pick?

Thank you.

 

[Class2ldn]

To become a driver you're looking 12-18 months.
Rules training, then traction and finally handling which varies between 225 and 275 hours give or take, company dependant.
Cant answer specifically for xc or gwr but location is a massive factor, bristol has both companies so I'd personally say just go with whoever is willing to take you on first.
Get your foot in the door, keep a clean record and if you want to go to a different company then thats something you can look at down the road.
You won't work more then 10 hours and a lot of companies work a 4 day week but that doesn't mean you'll only do 4 days in a row it just means 4 days before a rest day in any 1 week, the weeks crossover so you could be working upto 10 days in a row at some places but again that depends on the company and the way the roster is done

 

[irish_rail]

With XC I think you do several months training in Derby residential.
I believe Bristol drivers work as far as Paignton and Plymouth in the south, Cardiff in the west and Derby in the North.
Pay wise, I think it takes either one or two years once fully qualified to achieve the full salary. Currently they are on more than GWR when at the top rate, I want to say 68k? GwR top rate is about 61k.

GWR at Bristol have depots at Parkway and Temple Meads. They have slightly different route cards, but both go to London , and other routes include Exeter, Cheltenham etc depending on link and location. Both XC and new entrants to GWR have committed Sundays, whereby you will have to work your booked Sundays unless they can be covered.

Regarding preference, everyone is different. XC now I think would be just Voyagers and 170s. GWR would be IETs , and presumably Turbos, and 158s. The IET cab is nicer than a voyager cab in my opinion , with the Voyager cab feeling pretty dated, although again that's a matter of opinion.

 

[Train_manager]

Cross-country is currently 65k.

 

[doots122]

how often do train driving apprenticeships come up and which company take on most please?

 

[Purly]

Hi,

Hope you can offer some help/advice.

I have been accepted for a trainee mainline driver for GA (Cambridge).

I don't come from a railway background so hoping someone can give simple answers.

The terms in the contract, are they whilst in a "trainee" capacity or are they the same once qualified?

Terms state 20days holiday, this sounds pretty low?

Sundays are normal hours?

What kind of shift pattern should one expect once qualified?

I am aware there is a starting salary, then a mid training salary raise, and then full qualified salary. What time scales are we talking?

 

[Trainrave]

Hi,

Hope you can offer some help/advice.

I have been accepted for a trainee mainline driver for GA (Cambridge).

I don't come from a railway background so hoping someone can give simple answers.

The terms in the contract, are they whilst in a "trainee" capacity or are they the same once qualified?

Terms state 20days holiday, this sounds pretty low?

Sundays are normal hours?

What kind of shift pattern should one expect once qualified?

I am aware there is a starting salary, then a mid training salary raise, and then full qualified salary. What time scales are we talking?

I can’t answer all of your questions, and as I’m employed by a different train operator, I’m not familiar with GA’s Terms & Conditions, but I’ll try and answer a couple of your questions.

Terms state 20days holiday, this sounds pretty low?

Likely to be based on a 4 day week, resulting in 5 weeks’ holiday per year, usually plus additional daily leave “floating” days.
Holidays are usually rostered by the company and you are given 1 week in the spring, 3 weeks in the summer and 1 in the winter.

Sundays are normal hours?

Some train operating companies have terms & conditions where Sundays are optional overtime. Some also have conditions where Sundays are mandatory working days, but are paid as overtime. Other companies have Sundays included in the regular working week and are treated as any other working day.
This appears to be the case for GA.

What kind of shift pattern should one expect once qualified?

You will be working a 4 day week, which will be averaged out over a certain period of time.
That means that you won’t necessarily work just 4 days a week, some you will work 4, 5 or 6 days and have a number of rest days.
Over the month, you will have worked a 4 day week on average.
As for shift times, at my TOC, the earliest book on is around 01:00 and the latest finish is around 03:30.

Hope this helps.

how often do train driving apprenticeships come up and which company take on most please?

Train Driving “Apprenticeships” aren’t strictly apprenticeships in the traditional sense.

The Train Driving Apprenticeship is a qualification acquired after gaining employment as a Trainee Driver.

They are named Apprenticeships merely as a method for TOCs to recoup some of the money they are forced to contribute to the national apprenticeship fund, paid for by large businesses.

 

[newbie12121]

Hey folks, I'm looking to become a train driver but i have chronic hep B currently taking tenofovir daily otherwise healthy would I pass the medical? Should I even try?

Thanks in advance

 

[ComUtoR]

Hey folks, I'm looking to become a train driver but i have chronic hep B currently taking tenofovir daily otherwise healthy would I pass the medical? Should I even try?

Thanks in advance

Of course you should apply.

The general rule for medical capability is to meet the basic entry requirements. (Hearing, eyesight) and the technical details are on a case by case basis.

 

[Ollie7]

Morning,

I currently work as a signaller and I am in the process of considering changing career to become a train driver as that's something I've always wanted to do. However, I know very little on what it's actually like on a day to day basis for a train driver in the sense of shifts, morale, the training provided etc. If anyone can help me I would REALLY appreciate it to help with my decision.

I currently work 12 hour shifts so get a lot of time off work. I'm guessing drivers can't work long shifts due to fatigue and concentration levels, so how does this affect how many days a week a driver works? What would a typical weekly roster be for a Cross Country train driver?

I'm interested in the Bristol depot in particular - does anyone have any experience with what the routes are like and the depot itself, management etc.

In regards to training, as a signaller I had to go to signalling school for 12/13 weeks which was residential (hotel/NWR campus). I'm guessing this is the same for driver training? Where is XC training centres and does anyone have any experience of their training course?

In regards to salary, I would be taking a massive drop initially. Does anyone have an up to date pay scale please?
Does the salary increase after the initial training or once passing out with a driver trainer and going solo?

Once again, I appreciate anyone who takes the time to provide me any information in regards to XC to assist with making my final decision on changing from a signaller to a train driver.

And finally... I've always fancied GWR as a preference for applying to be a train driver. If you was to pick between GWR or XC, which would you pick?

Thank you.

Can I ask how it is being a signaller, is it hard work do you need to focus on many things at once is it hard to get the job? Any reply would be appreciated.

 

[soswales]

Can I ask how it is being a signaller, is it hard work do you need to focus on many things at once is it hard to get the job? Any reply would be appreciated.

There is a thread on here about becoming a signaller which would likely give you loads of information.

I have been a signaller for 5 years now in signal boxes and the main control centre and I do really enjoy it. It can be challenging on times and can be quite stressful when managing a multitude of things but it's a very interesting job if you got the right skills - remaining calm under pressure, multi tasking, working with others, communications skills etc.
Depending on the area you work and the grade will determine how many things you got to concentrate on at once - this could be signalling trains, operating level crossings whilst answering telephone calls and liaising with other staff around you. If your dealing with an Incident in one area of your panel/location, you still got to keep other trains moving that are not affected by the issue so you can then become quite busy and having to really concentrate, prioritise and manage the situation.

Is it hard to get the job... I would say its not easy. Lots of people apply and don't get in, some people been known to apply 30 or so times. It just all depends how your skills match on your CV, how you perform on the online assessments and at the interview. If your skills fit then you shouldn't have a problem as long as someone else doesn't beat your scores (depending on how many jobs are going).

I hope that helps answer your question.

 

[Ollie7]

There is a thread on here about becoming a signaller which would likely give you loads of information.

I have been a signaller for 5 years now in signal boxes and the main control centre and I do really enjoy it. It can be challenging on times and can be quite stressful when managing a multitude of things but it's a very interesting job if you got the right skills - remaining calm under pressure, multi tasking, working with others, communications skills etc.
Depending on the area you work and the grade will determine how many things you got to concentrate on at once - this could be signalling trains, operating level crossings whilst answering telephone calls and liaising with other staff around you. If your dealing with an Incident in one area of your panel/location, you still got to keep other trains moving that are not affected by the issue so you can then become quite busy and having to really concentrate, prioritise and manage the situation.

Is it hard to get the job... I would say its not easy. Lots of people apply and don't get in, some people been known to apply 30 or so times. It just all depends how your skills match on your CV, how you perform on the online assessments and at the interview. If your skills fit then you shouldn't have a problem as long as someone else doesn't beat your scores (depending on how many jobs are going).

I hope that helps answer your question.

Ah very helpful thank you so much.

There is a thread on here about becoming a signaller which would likely give you loads of information.

I have been a signaller for 5 years now in signal boxes and the main control centre and I do really enjoy it. It can be challenging on times and can be quite stressful when managing a multitude of things but it's a very interesting job if you got the right skills - remaining calm under pressure, multi tasking, working with others, communications skills etc.
Depending on the area you work and the grade will determine how many things you got to concentrate on at once - this could be signalling trains, operating level crossings whilst answering telephone calls and liaising with other staff around you. If your dealing with an Incident in one area of your panel/location, you still got to keep other trains moving that are not affected by the issue so you can then become quite busy and having to really concentrate, prioritise and manage the situation.

Is it hard to get the job... I would say its not easy. Lots of people apply and don't get in, some people been known to apply 30 or so times. It just all depends how your skills match on your CV, how you perform on the online assessments and at the interview. If your skills fit then you shouldn't have a problem as long as someone else doesn't beat your scores (depending on how many jobs are going).

I hope that helps answer your question.

I’ve applied for a grade 6 for you know what that means?

 

[CCnottoolate]

Hi,
I hope you can help. I have passed all my tests to become a trainee-train driver. Now I am awaiting for the medical and hopefully start a course soon. The entire process has lasted 12 months, from applying to last interview.
What I would like to know is how much notice the company gives you before letting you know the course-start date? I have long notice period in my current job so would be good to have a rough idea.
Thank you for your input.

 

[AverageJoe]

Hi,
I hope you can help. I have passed all my tests to become a trainee-train driver. Now I am awaiting for the medical and hopefully start a course soon. The entire process has lasted 12 months, from applying to last interview.
What I would like to know is how much notice the company gives you before letting you know the course-start date? I have long notice period in my current job so would be good to have a rough idea.
Thank you for your input.

I got about a weeks notice.

I also needed to work 3 months notice but my employer was very understanding and I was allowed to leave.

 

[Matt123]

Hi,
I hope you can help. I have passed all my tests to become a trainee-train driver. Now I am awaiting for the medical and hopefully start a course soon. The entire process has lasted 12 months, from applying to last interview.
What I would like to know is how much notice the company gives you before letting you know the course-start date? I have long notice period in my current job so would be good to have a rough idea.
Thank you for your input.

Not sure which operator you’ve passed with, but I was recently given a start date of mid April for a similar role with EMR.

 

[Ollie7]

Hi,
I hope you can help. I have passed all my tests to become a trainee-train driver. Now I am awaiting for the medical and hopefully start a course soon. The entire process has lasted 12 months, from applying to last interview.
What I would like to know is how much notice the company gives you before letting you know the course-start date? I have long notice period in my current job so would be good to have a rough idea.
Thank you for your input.

How did you become a trainee did you keep looking everyday for jobs ?

 

[CCnottoolate]

How did you become a trainee did you keep looking everyday for jobs ?

yes kept checking until I saw positions advertised for a depot near me

Not sure which operator you’ve passed with, but I was recently given a start date of mid April for a similar role with EMR.

Thank you for your reply. That's a very decent notice period they gave you. Did they confirm your start date after you passed the medical? Or will you do your
medical just before the course?

I got about a weeks notice.

I also needed to work 3 months notice but my employer was very understanding and I was allowed to leave.

Wow that's crazy! It's great that your ex employers was ok with it, sadly my manager is not that understanding.

 

[Matt123]

Thank you for your reply. That's a very decent notice period they gave you. Did they confirm your start date after you passed the medical? Or will you do your
medical just before the course?

Confirmed start date, then sent through a medical form to complete. Then paperwork and contract etc with start date on.

Medical should be before the end of the year.

 

[Evolution]

I don’t regret taking the job but the shifts are extreme.
You can be working any hour of any day.
At times no matter how sensible you are and no matter how many techniques you use, trying to get to sleep at 4/5pm to be up at midnight and in the depot for 1am can be really difficult.
Then when your alarm goes off at midnight and you’ve managed a grand total of 1 hours sleep you come in to work and use caffeine to get you through the day.
The problem is you then get home and can’t get a good nights sleep because of all the caffeine so there’s another poor nights sleep.
The second day is when it can hit you I find and then you have the decision to make of do I dare phone in unfit for work or do I rely on caffeine again and just hope then I’m tired enough to get a good amount of sleep when I finish the day.

This isn’t every day but it’s something that can take its toll that a lot don’t think about.

The job demand a lot of concentration and when you are tired you know about it and it can be unnerving at times.

A very sensible, well balanced post providing the realities of the job many fail to consider.

Six earlies getting up at 3am really takes its toll on your body, you can’t help but build a sleep deficit up. I was chatting to an ex firefighter at my depot who qualified about a year ago and he was surprised how much tougher the shifts are in comparison.

Something worth considering, the novelty wears off pretty fast. It’s still an excellent job and (mostly) still enjoyable for me after several years post qualified.

 

[CCnottoolate]

Confirmed start date, then sent through a medical form to complete. Then paperwork and contract etc with start date on.

Medical should be before the end of the year.

Thanks again for your input and congratulations on getting on a course.

 

[Matt123]

Thanks again for your input and congratulations on getting on a course.

Thanks!

 

[DNCharingX]

I don’t regret taking the job but the shifts are extreme.
You can be working any hour of any day.
At times no matter how sensible you are and no matter how many techniques you use, trying to get to sleep at 4/5pm to be up at midnight and in the depot for 1am can be really difficult.
Then when your alarm goes off at midnight and you’ve managed a grand total of 1 hours sleep you come in to work and use caffeine to get you through the day.
The problem is you then get home and can’t get a good nights sleep because of all the caffeine so there’s another poor nights sleep.
The second day is when it can hit you I find and then you have the decision to make of do I dare phone in unfit for work or do I rely on caffeine again and just hope then I’m tired enough to get a good amount of sleep when I finish the day.

This isn’t every day but it’s something that can take its toll that a lot don’t think about.

The job demand a lot of concentration and when you are tired you know about it and it can be unnerving at times.

This was really interesting to read for someone interested in driving positions in the future - partially because you won't get this sort of reality check in the job advert.

I do somewhat relate to trying to sleep when the sun is up. I get the impression that these shifts are tight and that you have no time for anything once home. Thinking about Hidden, If you are working at 1am, would that mean you've finished at 1pm the previous day? I suppose that's a bit of time you get into your day. I do work shifts, but very clearly nothing near to what Drivers have to deal with.

I wouldn't get into my car on an hour's sleep, but I understand the hesitation to phone in unfit - for me it sounds a bit silly to phone in that "you're tired". Then the follow-up and everything.

Driver shifts discussion is interesting because it's the one part of the job (in my opinion) you don't get a lot of information on other than start anytime finish anytime max 9h. I only have a rough idea thanks to a driver who was willing to part with their schedule card a few months back.