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A new Beeching-style report is needed, to refocus the role of rail

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TheBigD

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Fair enough- forgive me, I wasn't clear @TheBigD - accepting that this is unlikely, would anything be retained between St Dennis Junction and Par? If rule one of change is that those who lose shout much more loudly than those who are gaining incrementally, what would need to be done to mitigate the utility losses for passenger from Bugle, Luxulyan and Roche? Given low passenger numbers, presumably an improved bus service?

No worries!

Had it happened I suspect that BR would have closed the Burngullow to St Dennis part.

As an aside, you may wish to look at the Mid Cornwall Metro and the current plans for the line...

 
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Luxulyan would be the main loser, but it is tiny. The other two have far better bus service than rail service already.

I think the benefits of this would be significant if done right.
I had an alternative idea to reopen the St Dennis Line but keep Luxulyan as an additional passing loop for that line. This would allow an hourly service from Newquay to St Austell with alternating trains running in opposite directions around the ‘loop’. There’s a better explanation of it in post 30 of this thread:
 

Spamcan81

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I refute this 100%.

There are plenty of forces that would like to start chipping away at the railway. If these "interests" succeed in chipping away one passenger service, there is a very real risk that the momentum to chip away at others will become irresistible.

It is our job as passengers to make the point that the network is a national rail network, it is not just there to enable isolated groups of commuters to undertake self-contained journeys, it is there to enable citizens across the nation to travel to a wide range of destinations nationwide, going about their business.

Here, here.
Why is it that the railways have to run at a profit yet roads are seen as a necessity funded out of taxation?
 

A0wen

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Here, here.
Why is it that the railways have to run at a profit yet roads are seen as a necessity funded out of taxation?

Because roads carry pedestrains, cyclists, motorcyclists, goods delivery, emergency services, public transport as well as private motorists perchance ? And are used by more people than the railways.

From my house I use the road to go to my local shop, to the major supermarket or the next town, none of which the rail network can do.
 

JonathanH

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Why is it that the railways have to run at a profit yet roads are seen as a necessity funded out of taxation?
Not wishing to defend the situation but road fund tax and tax on fuel more than covers the budget for road maintenance.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/consumer/autumn-budget-expected-clarify-road-pricing-plans
How much tax is raised from vehicles and how is it spent?

Road tax and fuel duty generate £35 billion a year in tax revenue, equivalent to 4% of overall tax receipts. The revenue from road tax (£7bn) is allocated to the National Roads Fund for local and strategic road upgrades. Fuel duty (£28bn) is disbursed across the whole of state spending to help fund everything from schools and hospitals to public sector pensions and infrastructure projects.
 

MarkyT

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Bearing in mind it ain't going to happen...

Par to Burngullow is used by freight.
Burngullow to St Dennis Junction would be unused.
St Dennis Juncyion to Newquay no change.

As I said in an earlier post, it was proposed as part of the A30 widening in the late 1980s (I think) but the rail part never happened.
I think you meant Goonbarrow instead of Burngullow above.

Government cancelled the original 1980s A30 widening scheme. When the project was resurrected decades later, a different route option was chosen and built.
 

TheBigD

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I think you meant Goonbarrow instead of Burngullow above.

Government cancelled the original 1980s A30 widening scheme. When the project was resurrected decades later, a different route option was chosen and built.

Apologies, it is indeed Goonbarrow.
(I should stick to Lincolnshire in future!)
 

JonathanH

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Of course, the railway and other public transport operators also pay fuel duty.
The railway uses red diesel https://www.gov.uk/government/consu...all-for-evidence/red-diesel-call-for-evidence so doesn't make the same contribution. By no means all fuel duty is spent on the roads.

2.3 Uses of red diesel other than in motor vehicles

heating – red diesel used for heating is known as ‘35 second oil’. Use of red diesel for heating has declined with the availability of natural gas but it is still used ‘off-grid’ for the heating of commercial and public sector premises, and in agriculture for heating animal sheds and processes such as drying grain, as well as some household heating. Use of red diesel for industrial heat in kilns and furnaces has similarly declined
stationary engines – this includes static generating sets, for instance back-up capacity at power stations and stand-by generators in places such as hospitals
mobile machinery – red diesel can be used to operate machinery mounted on road vehicles so long as the machinery is supplied from a separate tank, for example transport refrigeration units. It is also used in mobile generating sets
ships – including inland waterways. Private pleasure crafts can use red diesel but suppliers must retain and repay to HMRC the proportion of the rebate that relates to motive power rather than domestic use
rail – this use has reduced with electrification but not all passenger lines have been electrified. Freight trains mostly run on red diesel
 

778

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There are 1987 stations in England, 561 of them in total account for just 1% of all passengers. Getting rid of them would save a reasonable amount of money, speed up some journeys and free up capacity on the network.
It is amazing that towns with fairly large populations like Dunstable and Halesowen don't have railway stations, but places in the middle of nowhere such as Sugar Loaf does. Would reopening the railway from Old Hill to Halesowen (probably will never happen) generate more income for the railway than the West Wales line does?
 

Bletchleyite

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It is amazing that towns with fairly large populations like Dunstable and Halesowen don't have railway stations, but places in the middle of nowhere such as Sugar Loaf does. Would reopening the railway from Old Hill to Halesowen (probably will never happen) generate more income for the railway than the West Wales line does?

Some of the Beeching closures made very little sense. Why for instance keep Altnabreac (a station with basically no purpose which nobody even seems to know why it was even opened) and close Halkirk (an actual village containing people who might actually use the train)? And there are those two stations on the Far North that are a few hundred yards apart - why?

Dunstable of course now has the Busway which works quite well as it allows the buses to "fan out" at the outer end, and as per Cambridge the whole thing has a very tramway esque feel anyway - I think like Cambridgeshire it might quite possibly be better for the place than an hourly DMU or even if they'd extended the Thameslink Luton terminators twice an hour. I don't know Halesowen.
 

class26

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Some of the Beeching closures made very little sense. Why for instance keep Altnabreac (a station with basically no purpose which nobody even seems to know why it was even opened) and close Halkirk (an actual village containing people who might actually use the train)? And there are those two stations on the Far North that are a few hundred yards apart - why?

Dunstable of course now has the Busway which works quite well as it allows the buses to "fan out" at the outer end, and as per Cambridge the whole thing has a very tramway esque feel anyway - I think like Cambridgeshire it might quite possibly be better for the place than an hourly DMU or even if they'd extended the Thameslink Luton terminators twice an hour. I don't know Halesowen.
Those 2 statons n the FNL you speak about presumably are Invershin and Culrain ? Yes, they are a few hundreds yards apart but either side of the Oykel viaduct. In days of old taking the train was the only way to avoid a very long journey by road but in 2000 a walk way has been attached to the viaduct so certainly one of the stations could be closed. The stations were kept open after the walk way as there was a youth hostel close by but it is now closed.
They are request stops and of course uit is necessary to slow for the viaduct in anycase so little time is lost.
 

A0wen

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Some of the Beeching closures made very little sense. Why for instance keep Altnabreac (a station with basically no purpose which nobody even seems to know why it was even opened) and close Halkirk (an actual village containing people who might actually use the train)? And there are those two stations on the Far North that are a few hundred yards apart - why?

Halkirk closed pre Beeching in 1960. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halkirk_railway_station

As ever the good Doctor getting the blame for things which weren't his suggestion.

It is amazing that towns with fairly large populations like Dunstable and Halesowen don't have railway stations, but places in the middle of nowhere such as Sugar Loaf does. Would reopening the railway from Old Hill to Halesowen (probably will never happen) generate more income for the railway than the West Wales line does?

The issue with both Dunstable and Halesowen is they were both on branch lines, not even secondary routes and they had other stations in reasonably close proximity.

Halesowen station actually closed to passengers in 1927 - so before WW2.

In Dunstable's case it never had direct trains to London, instead it had relatively infrequent trains to Welwyn Garden City via Luton (Bute St station), Harpenden East and Wheathampstead and *very* infrequent trains onto Leighton Buzzard.

Luton and Harpenden both had other stations, Wheathampstead is to this day a small village. The bus service which replaced it, the 366, still runs to this day and its timetable isn't that dissimilar to the rail timetable. Dunstable town centre.

Dunstable town centre is 3 miles from Leagrave station, so less for many parts of Dunstable. And Leagrave now gets 4 tph to London and beyond and 4 tph to Bedford - an infinitely better service than the Dunstable branch would ever have been able to provide - the branch was single track throught and would have struggled to accomodate 2 tph.
 

mike57

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The big issue is the public perception of this type of report. Beeching is seen as having an anti railway agenda from the start, and the transport minister at the time, Ernest Marples is also viewed as anti railway and accusations of vested interest have been levelled with respect to his construction business. The fact that these names live on 60 years after the event proves how divisive they were.

Hence we went from wholesale closures, including routes that shouldn't have closed as well as the 'basket cases' that were redundant, to any closure being unacceptable including the basket cases. The Labour party did themselves no favours by indicating they would keep some lines open, and then when in power carrying on with closures anyway. It just reenforced the idea that politicaians will say anything to get elected but then carry on as before.

The Serpell report added to the public rejection of this type of 'report'

So it raises the question of how avoid just keeping everything frozen, and throwing good money after bad.

The issue is something bigger than just the railways, the public do not trust politicians, and ultimately they are the ones who make the decisions. Actions over the last few years by various politicians have really just made that perception stonger.

I think closing stations on an otherwise open line is an easier sell than closing an entire line. If line closures are unacceptable/political suicide then surely the next step is to see how costs could be reduced. Should we be looking at light weight tram/trains (diesel/battery?) for lightly used branches, with much reduced signalling etc. operating more like a tram, with track brakes and more or less line of sight operation, but able to operate over a normal lines to reach a junction station.

Railways costs in general seem to have increased at far more than the rate of inflation, so perhaps any report needs to focus on the reasons, and what can be done to get them down. One obvious culprit, the current multi TOC setup duplicates resources, restricts flexibility and creates difficulties where none should exist, e.g. ticket acceptance in the event of disruption. It has also resulted in peicemeal procurment of a multitude of non interoperable rolling stock each with its own maintenance requirements. Now that the government are underwriting the running costs and keeping fare receipts its time to do away with it and return to a 'BR' brand. TOCs may be contracted to deliver services, but no service = no fee. Longer term look to standardise on a standard unit for each the various types of operation, branch line, suburban, inter regional, inter city. The Southern Railway and later Southern region were heading towards this goal 60-80 years ago, we seemd to have lost the learning/knoweledge from this. The advantage is as the needs change stuff can be shuffled around much easier, even short term to support local anomalies such as a sporting event.

Getting operating costs (the whole of it, Network rail, infrastructure improvement, rolling stock leasing, day to day operations) under control has to be the first step. If the public see a well run and efficent railway that subject to the occasional unavoidable external events delivers the advertised service then opening the discussion about certain routes/stations may be better received by the public.

So in summary I think any report needs to concentrate on structure and methods/costs of operation first. Sort that out, then look at investment/cut backs once the changes from the first step have delivered.
 

Bletchleyite

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I think closing stations on an otherwise open line is an easier sell than closing an entire line. If line closures are unacceptable/political suicide then surely the next step is to see how costs could be reduced. Should we be looking at light weight tram/trains (diesel/battery?) for lightly used branches, with much reduced signalling etc. operating more like a tram, with track brakes and more or less line of sight operation, but able to operate over a normal lines to reach a junction station.

I've certainly wondered about this myself. There aren't actually that many wholly or nearly self contained branches, but I do think this idea has potential for those that are, e.g. Cornish and Thames Valley branches. There are lots of costs it saves:

1. Level crossings can be open with normal traffic lights (the tram just stops before crossing, or runs at a speed where they could stop if a car jumps it)
2. No lifts needed - just walk (or wheel your chair) across the line on the level; the tram is driven so it can stop if you're in the way
3. If done low-floor like Sheffield, new stations in more useful places cheaper and easier to add or move (branch stations are often poorly located)
4. Staff can be cheaper than mainline staff if operated as a separate organisation - I believe Metrolink tram drivers are far cheaper than train drivers
5. DOO is the norm, or if conductors are used they don't need to get involved in operations and can do all your ticketing - low or zero evasion, no TVMs or booking offices to pay for, and people actually like it!
6. Potential for street running at the terminus if it's awkwardly out of town, or diverting through a town in the manner of Oldham if the station is inconveniently sited
Etc.

Plus I'll add my usual bugbear - better bus integration!

Also there must be an option for a simpler signalling tech like RETB on single track lines (double track you can, as suggested, just operate on sight, potentially with road-vehicle-derived radar anti collision technology as a backup).

With regard to closing stations, there are some that do get in the way of a neat or improved service - I've mentioned New Lane, Bescar Lane and Hoscar as ones which if removed could allow for a fully regular interval service on the Southport line, and usage of all of them is extremely low. I'm not sure closing them is worthwhile if they neither get in the way nor cost very much though - for instance there's little point getting rid of Berney Arms unless that whole line closed (which it could, I suppose, but when I've suggested it I've been told there are capacity issues on the other one), but if you look at e.g. the Far North some pruning of the more pointless ones could allow a speed-up which would improve the line's economics by attracting more users - or the Marston Vale where exactly that has been proposed.

I think it's also worth looking at how people get to such stations and ensuring that rather than just binning it off, genuine consideration is given to how those people who do travel might. I've suggested for one that an acceptable substitute for Aspley Guise station in the 5-station option could be a cycle and footpath alongside the line connecting it to one or both of the nearest alternatives, as the road routes round are rather hilly and long. This might even be relevant for higher-use stations which are annoying to operation of the service - for instance, does everyone* who uses Cheddington arrive by car? If so, would they all be willing to drive to Tring or Leighton Buzzard? If so, is the station worth retaining? That is, in some ways it matters less if people use a station and more if they'd be really easily persuaded to use a different one. This will be more the case for stations for longer journeys - I think for instance if you closed Aughton Park there's a good chance a lot of journeys would simply be lost to the car entirely.

Or can a station be made viable by a large housing estate being thrown up around it? (I don't know if Cheddington is green belt, but there'll be ones where it could). Should the railway perhaps promote this? It has done before - Metroland - and it hugely does in Japan.

It is genuinely possible for closing things to result in better transport outcomes if done correctly. Beeching mostly failed to do this (though the idea of regular interval, frequent InterCity services was one positive outcome). I fear we can't manage to do that, but we should.

* OK, there are about 6 houses right next to it, but they don't justify it on their own.
 
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A0wen

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I've certainly wondered about this myself. There aren't actually that many wholly or nearly self contained branches, but I do think this idea has potential for those that are, e.g. Cornish and Thames Valley branches. There are lots of costs it saves:

1. Level crossings can be open with normal traffic lights (the tram just stops before crossing, or runs at a speed where they could stop if a car jumps it)
2. No lifts needed - just walk (or wheel your chair) across the line on the level; the tram is driven so it can stop if you're in the way
3. If done low-floor like Sheffield, new stations in more useful places cheaper and easier to add or move (branch stations are often poorly located)
4. Staff can be cheaper than mainline staff if operated as a separate organisation - I believe Metrolink tram drivers are far cheaper than train drivers
5. DOO is the norm, or if conductors are used they don't need to get involved in operations and can do all your ticketing - low or zero evasion, no TVMs or booking offices to pay for, and people actually like it!
6. Potential for street running at the terminus if it's awkwardly out of town, or diverting through a town in the manner of Oldham if the station is inconveniently sited
Etc.

Plus I'll add my usual bugbear - better bus integration!

Also there must be an option for a simpler signalling tech like RETB on single track lines (double track you can, as suggested, just operate on sight, potentially with road-vehicle-derived radar anti collision technology as a backup).

With regard to closing stations, there are some that do get in the way of a neat or improved service - I've mentioned New Lane, Bescar Lane and Hoscar as ones which if removed could allow for a fully regular interval service on the Southport line, and usage of all of them is extremely low. I'm not sure closing them is worthwhile if they neither get in the way nor cost very much though - for instance there's little point getting rid of Berney Arms unless that whole line closed (which it could, I suppose, but when I've suggested it I've been told there are capacity issues on the other one), but if you look at e.g. the Far North some pruning of the more pointless ones could allow a speed-up which would improve the line's economics by attracting more users - or the Marston Vale where exactly that has been proposed.

But given that things like the Cornish branches are unlikely to be financially viable as either heavy rail or light rail, shifting them off to separate bodies and running them as isolated 'light rail' systems is unlikely to be any more cost effective and possibly it'll simply make matters worse.
 

mike57

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There aren't actually that many wholly or nearly self contained branches,
No, but I suspect a high proportion of them fall into 'lightly used' category if you look at them. Whitby would be one from my area, Barton on Humber which has been discussed recently, possibly Skipton - Lancaster, Goole - Castleford.

Low floor would make integration into the 'main line' network more difficult, most examples would leave from a junction station, may travel along the main line for a bit, perhaps calling at a staion on the way, then branch off and work as a tram, albeit diesel or battery powered. You could still do street running with Manchester style platforms, although in reality I dont know how many places would actually be altered.

Staff might be an issue as they would be using 'main lines' to reach the branch in most cases so there may be union resistance.

Rural level crossings seem to be a suck on maintenance resources, the number of times I see Network rail at one of the two crossings at either end of our village, so this would be a saving.
 

Bletchleyite

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Rural level crossings seem to be a suck on maintenance resources, the number of times I see Network rail at one of the two crossings at either end of our village, so this would be a saving.

Also on staff.

If we look at Ormskirk-Preston, the two crossings are staffed.

If you changed the whole thing to "one engine in steam" with an axle counter on entering from the WCML and control with whatever controls Preston, and the crossings didn't need staffing, and you plainlined Rufford station (it hasn't been used for regular passing of trains for about 30 years), that's two sets of wages you save. It does require capital investment, though, and the railway does suffer from short-termism at times. Yet some rural lines were converted to RETB and cheaper crossing operation, e.g. at Porthmadog the traincrew close it and a treadle reopens it, so there is a concept that works even without light rail. It should really be easily possible for Ormskirk to Preston to be staffed only by the traincrew.
 

778

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Halkirk closed pre Beeching in 1960. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halkirk_railway_station

As ever the good Doctor getting the blame for things which weren't his suggestion.



The issue with both Dunstable and Halesowen is they were both on branch lines, not even secondary routes and they had other stations in reasonably close proximity.

Halesowen station actually closed to passengers in 1927 - so before WW2.

In Dunstable's case it never had direct trains to London, instead it had relatively infrequent trains to Welwyn Garden City via Luton (Bute St station), Harpenden East and Wheathampstead and *very* infrequent trains onto Leighton Buzzard.

Luton and Harpenden both had other stations, Wheathampstead is to this day a small village. The bus service which replaced it, the 366, still runs to this day and its timetable isn't that dissimilar to the rail timetable. Dunstable town centre.

Dunstable town centre is 3 miles from Leagrave station, so less for many parts of Dunstable. And Leagrave now gets 4 tph to London and beyond and 4 tph to Bedford - an infinitely better service than the Dunstable branch would ever have been able to provide - the branch was single track throught and would have struggled to accomodate 2 tph.
Do you think that the Abbey line and Thames Valley branches should be converted to busways?
 
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Bletchleyite

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Do you think that the Abbey line and Thames Valley branches should be converted to busways?

Conversion is quite costly, so I'd do this if there was a specific benefit, i.e. that you're wanting to gain from the possibility of "fanning out" buses at one or both outer ends or continuing on street to a more useful destination. I don't think it's worth doing it to an existing operating railway unless there is a specific gain due to the cost.

I can see this being the case for the Abbey Line as the buses could operate from the city centre to central Watford - though are the roads congested or could you just close it, convert to cycleway (always worth doing this - it'll be useful to someone and it preserves the alignment) and run buses on the road?

I can less see it being the case for the TV branches, though it may be for some of them. Similarly there's no point converting the Marston Vale when you can run buses from Bedford to MK via the dualled A421.
 

ac6000cw

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Halkirk closed pre Beeching in 1960. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halkirk_railway_station

As ever the good Doctor getting the blame for things which weren't his suggestion.



The issue with both Dunstable and Halesowen is they were both on branch lines, not even secondary routes and they had other stations in reasonably close proximity.

Halesowen station actually closed to passengers in 1927 - so before WW2.
I grew up in Halesowen - normal passenger services ceased in 1927, but (AFAIK) 'workmen's' trains to the Longbridge car factory continued into the 1950s at least. It was actually a through route between Old Hill and Longbridge, originally GWR north of Halesowen and Midland Railway south of there. The line closed completely in the mid 1960s. Until quite recently, the junction of the last remnant of the line from the 'Midland' end into the car factory site was called 'Halesowen Junction'.

I think it was geography really that killed the passenger service - a hilly area with a poorly sited station in an industrial area on the opposite side of the town centre to most of the housing plus roundabout rail journey routings to almost anywhere people might want to go. Also Halesowen being at the confluence of two major road routes from the west into Birmingham meant by the late 1920s it had more frequent, more convenient and much more direct 'Midland Red' services by bus to Birmingham etc. than the railway could realistically hope to provide.
 

Kilopylae

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Obviously there are basket cases and there are basket cases. Barton is unlikely to ever be busy, but there are some lines where a relatively small investment could make them significantly less of a basket case, e.g Newquay, and so "spending to avoid spending" should be considered, without keeping opex and capex so firmly separated. It was for instance idiotic that it took so long for flood defence work to be done on the Conwy Valley despite it being washed away every other year - and its effectiveness has been proven by it not having done so since.
I agree totally, and I think you've hit the nail on the head by identifying the issue as operating/capital expenditure being so rigidly separated - as well as unimaginativeness and a lack of confidence or vision.

Do you think that the Abbey line and Thames Valley branches should be converted to busways?
It would probably be easier to make them light rail lines and let TfL have them.
 

Bletchleyite

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It would probably be easier to make them light rail lines and let TfL have them.

TfL could take over the Abbey Line now if they wanted (traditionally it was operated as part of the North London Railways network, not the Northampton Line as it is now, to use NSE monikers). They don't want, as it's not in London. Nor are a number of the other ones.

If we wanted to Beechingise some London routes that would deliver savings and operational advantage, the following might be good suggestions:

- West Ealing to Greenford - close entirely. It is poorly used, it serves little purpose, Drayton Green station is near West Ealing, South Greenford isn't far from Perivale and there's a 3bph TfL bus service (the E11) basically covering the whole route. This is not the sort of place where a 2tph branch line will ever be well used, particularly once the Central London connection was lost. Perhaps in compensation the E11 could be increased to 4bph and the line converted to a cycleway, which would be good given the significant popularity of cycling in London.

- Chiltern innersuburban stations. Keep West Ruislip as an outer Tube interchange. Close South Ruislip (has the Central), Northolt Park (lots of buses and not far from South Harrow Picc line), Sudbury Hull Harrow (has Picc line), Sudbury and Harrow Road (near Sudbury Town LU). Keep Wembley Stadium but to be served on event days only. This would make pathing on the Chiltern route easier and may allow a bit of a recast to the slower services.
 
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Irascible

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Do you think that the Abbey line and Thames Valley branches should be converted to busways?

I think you have to ask yourself why the Thames Valley survived the 60s - they would seem to be doing what rail does best & shifting sufficiently large amounts of commuter traffic rather than doing what rural buses do, which doesn't really point at a busway being a better idea. There were one or two GWR branches that didn't make it, so it wasn't through some protectionism.
 

yorksrob

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I think you have to ask yourself why the Thames Valley survived the 60s - they would seem to be doing what rail does best & shifting sufficiently large amounts of commuter traffic rather than doing what rural buses do, which doesn't really point at a busway being a better idea. There were one or two GWR branches that didn't make it, so it wasn't through some protectionism.

The Thames Valley branches do what they do very well and transport plenty of passengers.

I'm not convinced that they're so different from many local lines in the North.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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We don't need a Beeching report we need a 1980s BR style management with a laser focus on how to keep the network intact but run it economically. Most immediate need is for DfT to let go and lay down the challenge to GBR to deliver.
 

yorksrob

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We don't need a Beeching report we need a 1980s BR style management with a laser focus on how to keep the network intact but run it economically. Most immediate need is for DfT to let go and lay down the challenge to GBR to deliver.

Absolutely.
 

tbtc

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Most immediate need is for DfT to let go and lay down the challenge to GBR to deliver.

Why do you think that the (government controlled) GBR will deliver what you want when the (government controlled) DfT clearly haven’t?

Given that twenty years of the (government controlled) Network Rail doesn’t seem to have solved much in the eyes of many enthusiasts… I worry that people are putting a lot of faith in yet another organisation of the government controlled railway
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Why do you think that the (government controlled) GBR will deliver what you want when the (government controlled) DfT clearly haven’t?

Given that twenty years of the (government controlled) Network Rail doesn’t seem to have solved much in the eyes of many enthusiasts… I worry that people are putting a lot of faith in yet another organisation of the government controlled railway
BR was government controlled but given tough objectives by the DfT but it had the freedom how it delivered the outcomes ie DfT didn't micromanage them. So im saying get GBR establish and tell them that you have x less to run the railway but we don't want any network contraction and we want a service provision that meets demand.
 
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