Action to Take if Train Does Not Stop When Booked to Call

[Parham Wood]

If a train does not stop at a station when booked to call there and there has been no announcement on the train should passengers on board take any action? It could be assumed the driver has been taken ill and the safety devices have not been tripped (although most passengers would not know about these). I think this is more relevant on driver only trains as on trains with a guard one would expect the guard to take action if appropriate. Would it be possible to contact the driver via a passcom if single manned? I certainly would be a bit worried to know what was happening up front.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't consider use of the passcom on a DOO train to be unreasonable, though not to give the driver a gobful of abuse as most likely it's just a genuine oversight.

On a guarded train the guard will almost certainly have noticed and you most likely will hear an announcement soon enough.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

How much does it cost to mill the flats off a wheel set ?

 

[455driver]

It could be assumed the driver has been taken ill and the safety devices have not been tripped

99.999% of the time the driver would have made a simple mistake, schedule card wrong (I have had a couple where mine didnt tally with the guards) or some other simple reason.

 

[bengley]

If a train does not stop at a station when booked to call there and there has been no announcement on the train should passengers on board take any action? It could be assumed the driver has been taken ill and the safety devices have not been tripped (although most passengers would not know about these). I think this is more relevant on driver only trains as on trains with a guard one would expect the guard to take action if appropriate. Would it be possible to contact the driver via a passcom if single manned? I certainly would be a bit worried to know what was happening up front.

DSD is failsafe, if it stops working the brakes apply.

 

[DarloRich]

If a train does not stop at a station when booked to call there and there has been no announcement on the train should passengers on board take any action? It could be assumed the driver has been taken ill and the safety devices have not been tripped (although most passengers would not know about these). I think this is more relevant on driver only trains as on trains with a guard one would expect the guard to take action if appropriate. Would it be possible to contact the driver via a passcom if single manned? I certainly would be a bit worried to know what was happening up front.

what are you talking about? Action to take? None. Just sit tight and let things sort themselves out. It is usually a simple human error. If the driver is in trouble the safety systems will stop the train.

 

[hounddog]

Just make a note of the time for your delay repay claim.

 

[Bromley boy]

If a train does not stop at a station when booked to call there and there has been no announcement on the train should passengers on board take any action? It could be assumed the driver has been taken ill and the safety devices have not been tripped (although most passengers would not know about these). I think this is more relevant on driver only trains as on trains with a guard one would expect the guard to take action if appropriate. Would it be possible to contact the driver via a passcom if single manned? I certainly would be a bit worried to know what was happening up front.

Highly unlikely it would be sensible or useful for passengers to take any action at all. As others have pointed out, a failure to call is likely to be due to a simple mistake, or even an altered stopping pattern due to disruption, although of course this should be announced.

On the stock I sign (and, I'd imagine, on all types of stock currently in use on NR infrastructure) safety systems are pretty infallible if a driver is taken ill. The DSD will dump the brakes within around 7 seconds if the driver ceases putting pressure on it. The vigilance device will also stop the train within around 30 secs if the controls are not moved during that time. Both devices will automatically alert the signaller after activation. TPWS will intervene in the event of a SPAD or overspeed at key locations.

Pulling a passcom is likely to lead to considerable delay as the guard (driver if DOO) will have to walk back to reset it.

 

[edwin_m]

Highly unlikely it would be sensible or useful for passengers to take any action at all. As others have pointed out, a failure to call is likely to be due to a simple mistake, or even an altered stopping pattern due to disruption, although of course this should be announced.

On the stock I sign (and, I'd imagine, on all types of stock currently in use on NR infrastructure) safety systems are pretty infallible if a driver is taken ill. The DSD will dump the brakes within around 7 seconds if the driver ceases putting pressure on it. The vigilance device will also stop the train within around 30 secs if the controls are not moved during that time. Both devices will automatically alert the signaller after activation. TPWS will intervene in the event of a SPAD or overspeed at key locations.

Pulling a passcom is likely to lead to considerable delay as the guard (driver if DOO) will have to walk back to reset it.

Not to mention failing to cancel an AWS warning at an adverse signal or warning of speed restriction.

Searching on Railways Archive for accidents caused by "Driver Took Ill" gives four results that relate to diesel or electric traction, the most recent being in 1984. So the chances of a missed call being due to the driver being incapacitated and the safety systems failing to work are tiny.

 

[pdeaves]

Pulling a passcom is likely to lead to considerable delay as the guard (driver if DOO) will have to walk back to reset it.

And, once you know you're charging through the station you want to stop at, activating the 'passcom' will be too late. You stop in the middle of nowhere, way beyond the station.

 

[Bromley boy]

And, once you know you're charging through the station you want to stop at, activating the 'passcom' will be too late. You stop in the middle of nowhere, way beyond the station.

Too bloody right.

 

[MikePJ]

On a related note:

I used to travel by train to school in Portsmouth in the early 90s. On one journey home, the train was pulling out of Fratton station when I heard shouting and a man in a blue suit was jogging alongside the train shouting "pull the cord, pull the cord!" through the windows. I stood up to pull it, thinking he looked like a railwayman, but wasn't totally convinced, and the "penalty for improper use £50" notice deterred me.

The train was held at Hilsea (the next stop) for 25 minutes due to having left the guard behind. I apologised to him when he eventually came round to check everyone's tickets...

 

[GW43125]

And, once you know you're charging through the station you want to stop at, activating the 'passcom' will be too late. You stop in the middle of nowhere, way beyond the station.

Not to mention that nowadays unlike the days of airbrakes the passcomm doesn't just ditch the train pipe, slamming in the brakes, but goes via the driver.

 

[Bromley boy]

Not to mention that nowadays unlike the days of airbrakes the passcomm doesn't just ditch the train pipe, slamming in the brakes, but goes via the driver.

This is true, the passcom is no longer directly connected to the brake pipe. However, from my training, we are under strict instructions that if the passcom goes while any part of the train is in a station, we drop the lot immediately and ask questions later.

If the train is travelling at speed this doesn't change the fact it won't come to a stop anywhere near the station, of course!

 

[tsr]

Not to mention that nowadays unlike the days of airbrakes the passcomm doesn't just ditch the train pipe, slamming in the brakes, but goes via the driver.

Trains still have air brakes, but on more modern stock the passcom equipment may not immediately affect them if it's overridden in time.

It's important to note, though, that this statement is more than a bit misleading for a couple of reasons. Firstly, there's plenty of stock (mainly late BR era, early privatisation, or heritage stuff used on tours and charters) where the train brakes will be applied straight away if someone pushes/pulls the alarm, and where this can't be overridden, because the passcom and braking system are still directly connected to each other. Secondly, even on stock where overrides do exist because the brakes aren't directly connected, the driver has to actively opt to override the passenger alarm (within a certain time). Although it may not apply here, occasions where the alarm would not be overridden include the train leaving a station from which it has just been dispatched, for example.

Granted, there are trains where there is a difference between "call for aid" and "passcom", but for the most part, any alarms near the doors or in the main part of the saloon will be able to cause the brakes to activate if not overridden, ie. if the driver feels this would be unsafe, or if they are incapacitated.

 

[Llanigraham]

Do what lots of people seem to do as soon as something goes wrong; tweet!


(or should that be bleat?)

 

[GW43125]

Trains still have air brakes, but on more modern stock the passcom equipment may not immediately affect them if it's overridden in time.

Modern units don't

I was referring to a few incidents I've heard about from the slammer days where people would pull the passcomm at the right moment, the train would stop in the station and they'd get off.

 

[Tomnick]

Modern units don't

I was referring to a few incidents I've heard about from the slammer days where people would pull the passcomm at the right moment, the train would stop in the station and they'd get off.

Depends what you mean by "modern". There are lots of units on the network today where a passcom activation causes an immediate (full) brake application that can't be overridden by the driver.

 

[tsr]

Modern units don't

They do... sure, control and continuity proving will have evolved massively over time, but believe me, the core of the system uses air braking!

Why else do you think trains have compressors, main res gauges and such like?

 

[Tomnick]

Apologies, I've just re-read the post again, and yes, the claim does seem to be that modern units don't have air brakes. Even more far-fetched!

 

[headshot119]

Modern units don't

I was referring to a few incidents I've heard about from the slammer days where people would pull the passcomm at the right moment, the train would stop in the station and they'd get off.

Modern units most definitely have air brakes!

 

[GW43125]

Why else do you think trains have compressors, main res gauges and such like?

It's been a long time since I saw an EMU/DMU which has a train pipe (442s excluded)

My definition of "air brakes" is the WAB train pipe system. Not the weird train wire system they use today.

 

[Tomnick]

It's been a long time since I saw an EMU/DMU which has a train pipe (442s excluded)

My definition of "air brakes" is the WAB train pipe system. Not the weird train wire system they use today.

They're still air brakes. Either way, though, it's irrelevant. A passcom activation on many second-generation units will cause a full, uninterruptible brake application (by breaking one of those "weird" train wires, comparable to opening the brake pipe to atmosphere on older traction).

 

[Mag_seven]

The correct action to take is to get off at the next station and ask to be transported back.

 

[swt class 450]

If a train does not stop at a station when booked to call there and there has been no announcement on the train should passengers on board take any action? It could be assumed the driver has been taken ill and the safety devices have not been tripped (although most passengers would not know about these). I think this is more relevant on driver only trains as on trains with a guard one would expect the guard to take action if appropriate. Would it be possible to contact the driver via a passcom if single manned? I certainly would be a bit worried to know what was happening up front.

This has actually happened to me before when last year the driver on a Southern 377 in the evening peak forgot to stop at Cooksbridge station. Nobody pressed the alarm but a lot of people were annoyed. Everyone had to get off at Lewes and then wait around for just over an hour and then get a train back. I personally think pressing the alarm is the worst thing to do in this situation as it will just delay the train even more which will delay you getting to your destination even more. The best thing to do on a DOO train is just wait until you get to the next station and then tell the driver.

 

[Parham Wood]

I posted this not because the train might have not stopped at a station at which I wanted to alight but from the point of view it is my life, the train has not stopped, can I rely upon the safety systems to work if the driver is not in control? (You have really answered this or alluded to their failsafeness.) Would the driver be able to make an announcement if there is no guard?
It is a bit unnerving if I have understood correctly that on DDOs the passengers have no way of stopping the train but would have to rely upon technology, albeit fail safe.

 

[penrithsteve]

Slightly off-topic, but I seem to recall an incident, perhaps 25 years ago, when a train rolled out of Shanklin station without a driver on board, and picked up speed down the gradient. Passengers on board noticed something was wrong when the train went through Lake station without stopping. Someone managed to get into the cab and bring the train to a stop.

 

[A Challenge]

I know of a train, that, shortly after leaving London Waterloo first stop Woking, the guard announced it wouldn't be stopping at Woking, and it was routed down the New Guildford Line instead!

Surely it could happen that a train is stopped at a signal in a station where it should stop, and the passengers going to get on/off, and it moves off without the doors opening?

 

[Tomnick]

I posted this not because the train might have not stopped at a station at which I wanted to alight but from the point of view it is my life, the train has not stopped, can I rely upon the safety systems to work if the driver is not in control? (You have really answered this or alluded to their failsafeness.) Would the driver be able to make an announcement if there is no guard?
It is a bit unnerving if I have understood correctly that on DDOs the passengers have no way of stopping the train but would have to rely upon technology, albeit fail safe.

The operation of any passcom should stop the train, even in the very very unlikely event that the driver has expired *and* the DSD has failed 'wrong side'. Even on those newer trains where the driver has the opportunity to override it, the brakes will quickly go in if he does nothing. It's a fair bet that AWS and/or TPWS will have already intervened by the time you recognise that something might be amiss though.

 

[sarahj]

This has actually happened to me before when last year the driver on a Southern 377 in the evening peak forgot to stop at Cooksbridge station. Nobody pressed the alarm but a lot of people were annoyed. Everyone had to get off at Lewes and then wait around for just over an hour and then get a train back. I personally think pressing the alarm is the worst thing to do in this situation as it will just delay the train even more which will delay you getting to your destination even more. The best thing to do on a DOO train is just wait until you get to the next station and then tell the driver.

Yes, the driver cannot reverse, so would have to head to the next station anyway. on a 377 the pass-comm would be the best way. The driver can override the stop until a safe, or better place is found.

I've had the other, where the driver stopped and opened the doors at a station where we were not due to call. As on board staff you feel a tit.
Change here for XXX, this train does not call at XXX
Reminder, the next station is XYZ, we don't call at the XXX.
Train stops at XXX, driver opens doors.
Bahhhh,
Mind the punters on the platform waiting for the next train get a nice little bonus.