And you would probably raise the same objections to anything in your area?
Manston is private property and has been deemed unsuitable for a number of reasons. I suspect many drivers wouldn't know where it was or would refuse to go there.
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Anarchy in Calais
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And you would probably raise the same objections to anything in your area?
Manston is private property and has been deemed unsuitable for a number of reasons. I suspect many drivers wouldn't know where it was or would refuse to go there.
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HilversumNS
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The local council are already looking at a compulsory purchase order to re-open it. Lots of lorry drivers have sat-navs, and road signs can be erected.
No need to get personal about this, I was asking a genuine question, out of curiosity.
Who was getting personal?
If drivers won't go to Manston it's just going to be more chaos
HilversumNS
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If they don't go there, will they just park on local roads? In that case the police can deal with it as they would anyone else parking on a road.
In my opinion, the best piece of land to use, would between the current Ashford Truck Stop and the railway. Enough room for hundreds, if not thousands of lorries.
http://binged.it/1MtU0bF
http://binged.it/1MtU0bF
Xenophon PCDGS
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Such as they do with "travellers" ?
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What sort of "supposedly better life" will they find here? What do they expect us to do.....ship out our own resident "underclass" to Libya in order to accommodate them here?
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HilversumNS
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As they should do with "travellers", yes.
They'll just head to Dover and gridlock the whole area
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Well exactly, it's just a myth but they don't find that out until they get here and end up working on the black market for less than £1 an hour
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Busaholic
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If the U.K. signed the Schengen Agreement then the 'Anarchy at Calais' would be over in a trice. I feel sorry for Eurotunnel as it's entirely out of their control and I even have some sympathy for the French government - this 'problem' is manufactured by the British government, probably to divert attention from the real problems besetting our country, such as the lack of affordable housing, particularly in London and the southeast, exacerbated by the influx of laundered money from Russia and the Middle East owing to our lax financial controls and the toadying-up to oligarchs by our elected representatives and others with the ability to pull all the strings.
Robertj21a
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So what you're saying is that all these people from Eritrea, Somalia etc aren't real people in despair, but actually people that the British government have encouraged to camp in Calais so as to attack lorries and trains ?
How so? If we were within Schengen they could presumably get here unimpeded. Is that what you see as the solution? Or is the argument that if we were within Schengen, then we would have much more influence on policy and could ensure that the external borders were adequately policed?
Meanwhile, we have Calais, and the French and English between them need to deal urgently with what from the television pictures seems clearly to be criminal activity in destroying boundary structures and entering restricted areas. The French answer seems to be 120 additional riot police, the British share £7 million of fencing. Hasn't the time come for an Iron-Curtain-style border around the terminal areas and the presence of the Foreign Legion with live ammunition?
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
The recent very large departures of people "boat trafficked" in numerous types of vessels from Libya is something that will soon see a number of these people added to those on the northern French coastline. This means that the problem will only become greater than it is at present.
France has the problem of actually having these people on its own soil and a three mile exclusion zone should be established around the tunnel entrance area for security purposes. Any organised future attempts at mass attacks on the area in question, which surely is against the law, should be met with the hardest of state responses to act as a deterrent.
France has the problem of actually having these people on its own soil and a three mile exclusion zone should be established around the tunnel entrance area for security purposes. Any organised future attempts at mass attacks on the area in question, which surely is against the law, should be met with the hardest of state responses to act as a deterrent.
I very much agree and the problem needs to be stopped at source with these unseaworthy wrecks destroyed to prevent them setting sail in the first place
Johnuk123
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What a brilliant idea of yours to stop the trouble in Calais simply let every single illegal migrant that has entered Europe via the Med free and unlimited entry to the UK.
In that case all the rescue ships can avoid Italy and just bring them all here and drop them at Dover.
Natacha Bouchart, the Mayor of Calais, has become a one-woman advertising campaign to encourage migrants to enter Britain. She’s highlighted the generous benefits system, ease of working in the black economy and free Health Service — calling the UK the ‘El Dorado’ of Europe.
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The lack of affordable housing is due in no small part to mass immigration.
Meanwhile operation stack is reckoned to be costing the economy about £1.5million a day
Johnuk123
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Helpful advice from the Kent police to locals - don't travel unless you really need to.
Unfortunately all these journeys put off have to be made eventually - when will that be ? as this crisis is only getting worse and the blocking of the motorway by police is not likely to end soon.
The £1.5m a day cost is only in Kent the nationwide cost is at least £250m a day and rising.
Meanwhile Cameron and May demonstrate complete inertia like rabbits in headlights not having a clue what to do, just mouthing platitudes about "concern" and "sympathy."
Wouldn't it be fantastic to have a Government that actually just for once put the interests of this country first and got its finger out, I suppose that's simply too far fetched.
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Again I couldn't agree more.
I would imagine there will have been a considerable increase in train use and at least the Ashford to Canterbury West section is now reopened. Apparently traffic was so bad yesterday that passengers were being advised to go via Dover Priory on the train, presumably at no extra cost?
Quite honestly I hope those who voted Cameron back in are satisfied? Churchill must be turning in his grave!
Johnuk123
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We managed to keep out Hitler and Napoleon but seem incapable of stopping a few young men from Africa out for a better life.
If we can't or don't want to make Eurotunnel secure close it forthwith until we can, we coped perfectly well before it was built.
90019
Established Member
I'm surprised it took this long for Godwin's law to be invoked.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
Only the lorry drivers?
Personally I feel really sorry for everyone affected. The lorry drivers and all the other businesses, including Eurotunnel, who are obviously now losing huge amounts of money from the disruption, the residents of that part of Kent who are facing massive congestion on their roads - and I'm guessing it can't be good for the residents of Calais either. The tourists who are being delayed trying to travel across the Channel. And of course the migrants themselves - who are, let us not forget, the people suffering worst of all. Many have fled terrible war or persecution, been ripped off by people traffickers, and now stuck living in camps in dreadful conditions.
I don't know what the solution is - although it's obvious there's a pretty massive failing by the French authorities. In the long term, I imagine the only way to properly solve the problem is to - umm - stop the wars and persecution in Africa and the Middle East that has lead so many people to be so desperate to get into Europe in the first place. But that obviously requires a lot more international cooperation and a lot more willingness to intervene abroad than is currently the case (if it's even possible at the moment).
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I think it's clear that the number of people across the World who want to live in the UK massively exceeds the number of people who can reasonably be accommodated here - and in that situation clearly there must be some mechanism to limit the numbers living here. And it doesn't seem unreasonable in that situation that the people with first claim to live on this island are the ones who've grown up here - for whom the UK is already their home. And in that sense I would disagree with you, and say that 'we' do have substantially more right to live here than people who have no prior connection with the UK.
(But at the same time, on any moral grounds, migrants - even illegal migrants - should be treated fairly and humanely - it seems clear to me that in many cases, thanks to considerable anti-migrant xenophobia in the UK and across much of Europe, that's not happening).
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I agree with you to the extent that in the current situation, that may be the least-bad 'solution' for the time being - and I certainly think it's worth pursuing as part of a wider solution. But I wouldn't describe destroying the boats as stopping the problem 'at source' - since that will just leave lots of desperate people trapped in warzones or in countries in which they face persecution. Or of course, leaves them in Libya, thus in effect passing the problem on to that country, which is not remotely in any state to deal with it!
Johnuk123
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What amazes me is we keep being told that all these migrants are fleeing persecution and running for their lives etc etc.
Yet when they arrive in Italy or Greece instead of kissing the ground and thanking God for delivering them to a safe country they carry on travelling for months to get here and other places.
My son pointed out the other night how the phone one of them was using cost 400 quid, and he was in a designer jacket so not short of cash at all.
As soon as the migrants arrive at the camp they're approached by traffickers who tell them to wire £1200 to London or Kabul to get them across the water.
You notice that you hardly ever see a woman that's because they've been abandoned in Eritrea and the Sudan because nobody cares about them, they're just left to their fate.
As the Sky reporter pointed out whilst in the Calais camp the majority of these Africans are actually the few in their countries that have a few quid which they could use to start a business instead of paying 5-10 grand to get here. The real poor and destitute couldn't possibly find the money to get into Europe.
These African youths should be investing their money in their own country to try and improve it but they've taken the option to instead abandon their country because our black economy is very easy to get into and very lucrative.
If you want asylum you claim it in the first safe country not a country that you've decided you fancy because of it being an easy place to disappear, having no ID system and a thriving black economy.
Yet when they arrive in Italy or Greece instead of kissing the ground and thanking God for delivering them to a safe country they carry on travelling for months to get here and other places.
My son pointed out the other night how the phone one of them was using cost 400 quid, and he was in a designer jacket so not short of cash at all.
As soon as the migrants arrive at the camp they're approached by traffickers who tell them to wire £1200 to London or Kabul to get them across the water.
You notice that you hardly ever see a woman that's because they've been abandoned in Eritrea and the Sudan because nobody cares about them, they're just left to their fate.
As the Sky reporter pointed out whilst in the Calais camp the majority of these Africans are actually the few in their countries that have a few quid which they could use to start a business instead of paying 5-10 grand to get here. The real poor and destitute couldn't possibly find the money to get into Europe.
These African youths should be investing their money in their own country to try and improve it but they've taken the option to instead abandon their country because our black economy is very easy to get into and very lucrative.
If you want asylum you claim it in the first safe country not a country that you've decided you fancy because of it being an easy place to disappear, having no ID system and a thriving black economy.
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Dear America,
Here in the UK we are a hotbed for terrorism and uncontrolled immigration that we can no longer sustain. Half the natives have poorly paid jobs or survive on benefits with little hope, but most just grumble. Our politicians are useless and show little gumption and common sense, despite their superior private and university educations. Please invade us and free us from this lunacy. We no longer have a Navy or serviceable aircraft to bother you, and the Army will be busy filling out risk assessment forms long after you've marched past them. When you establish control, our wonderful policemen and women will slowly emerge and feed you hamburgers to avoid any confrontation, so no worries on that score. Hurry now, we don't have long....
Here in the UK we are a hotbed for terrorism and uncontrolled immigration that we can no longer sustain. Half the natives have poorly paid jobs or survive on benefits with little hope, but most just grumble. Our politicians are useless and show little gumption and common sense, despite their superior private and university educations. Please invade us and free us from this lunacy. We no longer have a Navy or serviceable aircraft to bother you, and the Army will be busy filling out risk assessment forms long after you've marched past them. When you establish control, our wonderful policemen and women will slowly emerge and feed you hamburgers to avoid any confrontation, so no worries on that score. Hurry now, we don't have long....
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Just think how much easier things would be if we had proceeded with the national ID in the last 10 years. In the long term there are only two ways ahead:
1) an identity card which amongst other security uses can quickly establish entitlement to social and public services
or
2) fortress Britain.
RichmondCommu
Established Member
If this was all happening in the prosperous south or indeed at an airport the French would be far more interested in doing something. It doesn't help that the terminal at Calais is so open compared to what we have in the UK. At the time of construction the UK was facing a major terrorist threat where as the French seemed to be determined to show off a major feat of engineering to all and sundry.
As I said in post #14:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2248224#post2248224
It's not of that much interest to most of France.
It would be good if it were (1), but as this is Britain and they are British politicians it's much more likely to be (2).
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So the official-sounding but in reality no more than just another pressure group the Refugee Council (and to hear the references to it on the BBC you'd think it really was official) doesn't like Cameron's use of the term "swarm". But isn't that just what they looked like in the news footage of the attempts to storm the rail terminal?
(I notice the ghastly Andy Burnham has jumped in on the criticism act very quickly -- to try to deflect from his failing campaign, perhaps?)
HilversumNS
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I'm no fan of Cameron, but do you really think any other potential PMs we had in May would do much better? Miliband was a wet lettuce, Clegg a poodle, so that just leaves Farage?
America has home-grown terrorism, they have an immigration problem with Mexico, the population has a huge underclass without access to basic healthcare, their politicians are the same as our, and their police are trigger happy, especially if the target is not white. I won't go into details about their murder rate.
No thanks.
Aictos
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I blame the EU, who ought do more by instead of sending them to Britain actually have them stay in the first safe country they arrive in.
That said the French ought secure their borders properly instead of appearing to do very little about it, Calais is their responsibility not the UK's and as such the French need to do more.
That said the French ought secure their borders properly instead of appearing to do very little about it, Calais is their responsibility not the UK's and as such the French need to do more.
Err, it was mean't to be a little light humour. Honestly, sometimes.... :roll:
You are right, Calais as a major border point for the UK should be o(and by treaty to the Schengen area). The UK government is responsible for preventing unauthorised entry to the UK, (in respect of Calais departures, at Dover ports, Folkestone Tunnel terminal, and Ashford, Ebbsfleet and St Pancras International stations).
The problem is that the UK governments have chosen to discharge their responsibilities in French territory supported by a token Border Agency representation. Although the area within the wire fences at Coquelles and the Calais docks is still French owned, the UK is responsible for policing what goes on as far as boarding for tunnel crossings is concerned.
I suspect that the details the agreement are contained in a MoU and we are unlikely ever to know the whole picture, but the fact that the UK Government's statements have not made any specific claims that France is breaking the terms of the deal suggests that it is rather wooly and lacking foresight. Add to that the continual threat to the UKBA amongst others, of cute in numbers due to the continuing misguided 'saving money at all costs' knee jerk policy, what we have is a setup designed to deal with would-be terrorists, for whom detection and arrest is a fairly effective deterrent. When confronted with a human crisis, even the 'nasty party' hesitates at decisive action, preferring to hide behind a lot of huffing and puffing from it's right-wing and occasional embarassing 'inappropriate words' from Dave himself.
Meanwhile, the hapless Labour party, can comfortably sid on the sidelines watching the Government squirm, maybe thinking that the 2015 was not the must-win general election that everybody assumed.
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