Another day, another overhead line failure near Paddington

[rob.rjt]

The thread title says it all really, but, having had enough of this now, I am prompted to ask a few questions:

1. Is it possible for the headspans to be replaced (effectively) like for like with the portal structures seen elsewhere on the GWML, to try and avoid problems on one line taking out all the other lines?
2. What are passengers meant to do at stations between Paddington and Reading. TfL authorises travel on London Underground and London Buses, but for intermediate passengers up to about West Drayton, these services don't exist.

Customer advice:

Elizabeth line

You may use your ticket on London Underground and London Bus services via any reasonable route at no extra cost.

Great Western Railway

No trains are currently operating between London Paddington and Reading.

You may use your ticket on the following services at no extra cost:

• London Underground via any reasonable route
• London Buses via any reasonable route
• Southern via any reasonable route
• Thameslink via any reasonable route

It seems that National Rail are advising ticket acceptance on GWR on useless routes, obviously it doesn't help the South Western Railway has engineering works at Virginia Water and Woking today.

 

[MadCommuter]

1. What are passengers meant to do at stations between Paddington and Reading.

The answer is obvious, as far as the railway is concerned: do not travel!

 

[zwk500]

The thread title says it all really, but, having had enough of this now, I am prompted to ask a few questions:

1. Is it possible for the headspans to be replaced (effectively) like for like with the portal structures seen elsewhere on the GWML, to try and avoid problems on one line taking out all the other lines.

In short, yes. However it does require a disruptive possession of potentially the full approach to Paddington to fit the gantry beams so is neither cheap nor easy to get a slot. However with the construction of Old Oak Common opportunities may arise.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Why aren't Chiltern offering acceptance between Marylebone and Oxford?

 

[zwk500]

Why aren't Chiltern offering acceptance between Marylebone and Oxford?

According to GWR website, they are: https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/live-network-updates

Customer Advice:
Due to a fault with the overhead wires near Ladbroke Grove, trains are currently unable to operate between London Paddington to Reading.
Customers requiring to travel from London Paddington to Oxford may use Chiltern Railway services from London Marylebone. Transfer between Paddington and Marylebone being available on London Underground services. GWR ticket holdes will be conveyed on both services without additional charge.
London Underground are conveying passengers via any reasonable route until further notice.
London Buses are conveying passengers via any reasonable route until further notice.

 

[Class 317]

Another day I don't head up to London.The economic and direct cost of continuous failures must be starting to add up!

Splitting the head spans so separate ones cover the fast and relief lines might be a cheaper compromise

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

According to GWR website, they are: https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/live-network-updates

I see. The OP did not include that in his quoting of ticket acceptance above, only Southern and TfL. Perhaps it has been added only recently. Thanks.

 

[zwk500]

I see. The OP did not include that in his quoting of ticket acceptance above, only Southern and TfL. Perhaps it has been added only recently. Thanks.

OP appears to have been quoting TfL advice, which may explain the lack of mention of any services beyond their area.

Another day I don't head up to London.The economic and direct cost of continuous failures must be starting to add up!

Splitting the head spans so separate ones cover the fast and relief lines might be a cheaper compromise

Do we know for sure that it's specifically headspans that are the problem, and a problem that might have been solved with gantries or mitigated with split headspans?

Also, splitting the headspans at Ladbroke Grove would require work to separate the tracks at most locations due to there being insufficient clearance between each track. A single portal gantry will be more cost effective, if you can get the access. I'm fairly sure OOC will need some all-line blockades at some point, which seems a very good time to come in and put in at least some gantries if they can.

 

[rob.rjt]

OP appears to have been quoting TfL advice, which may explain the lack of mention of any services beyond their area.

Do we know for sure that it's specifically headspans that are the problem, and a problem that might have been solved with gantries or mitigated with split headspans?

I was quoting from the National Rail website about ticket acceptance, which may have changed by now.

I am not sure if it is a headspan issue, but in this area it usually seems to be.

 

[zwk500]

I was quoting from the National Rail website about ticket acceptance, which may have changed by now.

Always a possibility, of course.

I am not sure if it is a headspan issue, but in this area it usually seems to be.

I think in several recent incidents, the root cause has had nothing to do with headspans, although headspans have made recovery harder.

A down train has just departed Paddington, (Service to Hereford so bi-mode unit) according to SignalMaps.

 

[slowroad]

It is often stated that one of the benefits of electrification is better reliability. Are there any “real world” stats for the UK comparing across electrified and unelectrified lines? Or before-and-after electrification?

 

[Hellzapoppin]

Aiui a project is underway to replace the headspans with portals.

 

[Bald Rick]

Is it possible for the headspans to be replaced (effectively) like for like with the portal structures seen elsewhere on the GWML, to try and avoid problems on one line taking out all the other lines?

In short, yes. However it does require a disruptive possession of potentially the full approach to Paddington to fit the gantry beams so is neither cheap nor easy to get a slot. However with the construction of Old Oak Common opportunities may arise.

Do we know for sure that it's specifically headspans that are the problem, and a problem that might have been solved with gantries or mitigated with split headspans?

All the headspans have long since been replaced with portals up to past Ladbroke Grove. This incident is at a portal.

HS2 will be replacing all the headspans at OOC.

 

[800001]

As of 0924 it should have been normal working after repair was made.

Issue was on line 4, line 5+6 were open for traffic, but lines 1-3 were under possession.

 

[midland1]

Why do the class 800s not run out of Paddington on their diesel engines, it would keep things moving ?

 

[800001]

Why do the class 800s not run out of Paddington on their diesel engines, it would keep things moving ?

Because the defect was a piece of wire hanging down, even a train on diesel could have made contact with it.
The defect had been cut clear and the OHL is energised allowing trains to now run on lines 4-6.

 

[father_jack]

Bristol City are playing West Ham and the first three trains from Bristol are 107, 37 and 59 late (and the third listed should be in front of the second !!!) due to over-run and points failure Westbury and then late off Stoke Gifford and still have to reach Reading so the wires issue is yet to come !!! Just another banjaxed day.

 

[zwk500]

Bristol City are playing West Ham and the first three trains from Bristol are 107, 37 and 59 late (and the third listed should be in front of the second !!!) due to over-run and points failure Westbury and then late off Stoke Gifford and still have to reach Reading so the wires issue is yet to come !!! Just another banjaxed day.

They've only just managed to get the B&H open as well, after Newbury was submerged for a couple of days.

 

[IndianPacific]

Aiui a project is underway to replace the headspans with portals.

Apologies if off-topic, but for anyone else not too familiar with this terminology or what that replacement process might Look like, I found this interesting article from a few years ago…

Back to portals - Rail Engineer

Listen to this article Headspans were necessary but now improved resilience is needed Generally, the railway electrification schemes that first emerged in Britain, before the introduction of more recent AC designs, relied on fairly heavy equipment. Multitrack supports were generally of the...

www.railengineer.co.uk

To help resolve these issues, engineering consultant Arup has successfully completed a ‘Headspan to Portal’ conversion project on the East Coast main line south of Peterborough. Working closely with Network Rail, Arup has provided a portal conversion design that could largely be installed during ‘rules of the route’ access.

Whilst the reasons for the original switch to headspans can be readily understood, when their low capital cost contributed to obtaining authorisation for important electrification schemes, it resulted in reliability that was less than that of the original portals. Now the design has gone back full circle, to the cost-effective conversion of those headspans back to portals, delivering the reliability that today’s busy railway needs.

 

[Purple Train]

Why do the class 800s not run out of Paddington on their diesel engines, it would keep things moving ?

When the issue isn't something like a piece of wire hanging down, then I believe they do - or, at least, they did when there were electrical problems during Storm Henk.

 

[AHCT]

1. Is it possible for the headspans to be replaced (effectively) like for like with the portal structures seen elsewhere on the GWML, to try and avoid problems on one line taking out all the other lines?

Stupid question - weren't they all modernised about 5 years ago?

 

[Taunton]

For all that headspans get the attention, they seemed to work without issue when installed for the Heathrow Express. It's the transition between what they were built for, and the current 100% electric operation that piggybacked for free off this that seems now the issue.

 

[Sleepy]

Even 2 x 165 in use on Pad to Didcot Parkway diagrams today !

 

[zwk500]

For all that headspans get the attention, they seemed to work without issue when installed for the Heathrow Express. It's the transition between what they were built for, and the current 100% electric operation that piggybacked for free off this that seems now the issue.

This is a good point, but I will refer you to the earlier.comment that this happened at a portal gantry.

 

[Kite159]

It was certainly a big chaotic at Reading around 09:00 this morning with few train movements. I suspect the Redhill/Gatwick trains were very busy when they departed (with passengers changing at Guildford for SWR). Didn't help that there was no SWR via Ascot for planned works and extra passengers heading into Reading from the Basingstoke direction due to the SWR mainline being closed between Basingstoke & Woking.

I dread to think what the first Paddington - Swansea was like, considering it looked to be a single 5 coach unit

 

[dk1]

Why do the class 800s not run out of Paddington on their diesel engines, it would keep things moving ?

If only it was that straightforward.

 

[NSE]

Not been a good weekend for GWR. Lucky I got my adventure to Carmarthen in yesterday. Got diverted via Bath Spa to Bristol Parkway (not complaining, got to do that Bristol curve both ways). Lots of delays on the journey but thought the staff were good at explaining what was happening. Set swap on the 13:26 from Carmarthen to Paddington at Swansea (I didn’t stay on past Llanelli as I was clearing intermediate stations) but the train manager was going along explaining the set was to be swapped and what to do etc.

 

[Mag_seven]

There is an existing thread that can be used to discuss GWML Infrastructure Issues between Paddington and Reading which can be found here:

Is the section of gwml beteen Paddington and reading the worst maintained line in the country?

This links into the thread about the poor performance of the EL. So far this week we've had a cracked rail at iver and a cracked rail at maidenhead. Since September we've had points failures, signal failures and ohle issues. I have nothing to compare it with, but travelling on it daily and...

www.railforums.co.uk