You'd be correct - GroupSave tickets aren't valid on CrossCountry services.I am travelling from Banbury to Paddington via Reading. We are a group of 4 or 5, looking on Trainline it offers us a Groupsave ticket but I thought these weren’t accepted on CrossCountry
But it won't sell you one on an invalid itinerary. But no ticket seller lists all the conditions on every ticket and if you're going to list one condition for one ticket it seems pointless.Trainline and GroupSave is a massive pain as they do not tell you what TOCs it is or isn't valid on. It only says condition of GroupSave: Travel together and travel off peak.
Given so many TOCs don't accept them and tickets offices were instructed to explicitly state this when selling them. Surely not mentioning this is just asking for trouble.But it won't sell you one on an invalid itinerary. But no ticket seller lists all the conditions on every ticket and if you're going to list one condition for one ticket it seems pointless.
But so are very many other conditionsGiven so many TOCs don't accept them and tickets offices were instructed to explicitly state this when selling them. Surely not mentioning this is just asking for trouble.
I can buy an Avanti only Any Permitted ticket & no one says the condition is it's for Avanti only. So why is this different. There are much less obvious restrictions that aren't highlighted why single this one out?Are you staying ticket offices shouldn't tell people? The reason these tickets were not available on the fast ticket machines was this very problem. The nature of GroupSave tickets and 'Any Permitted' mean it has to be explained.
If pax board an Avanti service etc and get charged new tickets it seems very unfair if the paxs were not informed if this restriction when the tickets were sold regardless of where they were sold.
It's highlighted as multiple people are getting charged a day without realising the issue. However the issue probably lies with the way GroupSave tickets are worded a big debate on the forum previously.I can buy an Avanti only Any Permitted ticket & no one says the condition is it's for Avanti only. So why is this different. There are much less obvious restrictions that aren't highlighted why single this one out?
Multiple people are charged a day with TOC only tickets, yet no one highlights this. Why highlight just this one restriction?It's highlighted as multiple people are getting charged a day without realising the issue. However the issue probably lies with the way GroupSave tickets are worded a big debate on the forum previously.
Groupsave and XC
Travelled with XC from Birmingham to Reading today and the Guard was raking in the money with upgrades from Groupsave tickets which XC don't accept. To be fair to him he did say he hoped XC would soon start accepting them not they were part of DB like Chiltern but equally he could ahve warned...www.railforums.co.uk
Don't TOC only tickets say this on the tickets?Multiple people are charged a day with TOC only tickets, yet no one highlights this. Why highlight just this one restriction?
You can't, because there's no such thing. Any Permitted and Avanti only are two completely different route restrictionsI can buy an Avanti only Any Permitted ticket & no one says the condition is it's for Avanti only. So why is this different. There are much less obvious restrictions that aren't highlighted why single this one out?
That'd be a good excuse in the case of a ticket that is only valid on the booked train. Although even then, it's important to say if there's a TOC restriction because it may become relevant in the event of disruption.But it won't sell you one on an invalid itinerary. But no ticket seller lists all the conditions on every ticket and if you're going to list one condition for one ticket it seems pointless.
In many cases that would be a mighty long list of trains! I suspect most passengers don't want pages and pages and pages of other trainsIf the ticket is valid on trains other than those listed on the itinerary, don't you think the retailer ought to tell the passenger which trains those are?
Perhaps they could summarise it by saying which train companies they're valid on (or which they aren't).In many cases that would be a mighty long list of trains! I suspect most passengers don't want pages and pages and pages of other trains
I suspect most passengers would assume, in the absence of a clear TOC restriction, that their ticket is valid on any train and - as we've established - will get stung for an excess if nobody tells them otherwise.In many cases that would be a mighty long list of trains! I suspect most passengers don't want pages and pages and pages of other trains
Not for GroupSave, as the restrictions are more complex than that. In any case, there isn't a space on the ticket for that sort of detail.Perhaps they could summarise it by saying which train companies they're valid on (or which they aren't).
So say a group of paxs are buying tickets for a day trip to the city. Say Coventry to Birmingham.Not for GroupSave, as the restrictions are more complex than that. In any case, there isn't a space on the ticket for that sort of detail.
To me, the ticket seller should tell the customer that a discount has been applied to the ticket, and that this may restrict how the ticket may be used, should provide an easy way to find out the restrictions for that discount, and should give the customer a way to buy without the discount.
I don't think the phrase "this may restrict how the ticket may be used" is a very good one. It could mean almost anything.Not for GroupSave, as the restrictions are more complex than that. In any case, there isn't a space on the ticket for that sort of detail.
To me, the ticket seller should tell the customer that a discount has been applied to the ticket, and that this may restrict how the ticket may be used, should provide an easy way to find out the restrictions for that discount, and should give the customer a way to buy without the discount.
I'm saying ticket rules are very complex. A lot of rail staff don't understand them. What hope do passengers have?I suspect most passengers would assume, in the absence of a clear TOC restriction, that their ticket is valid on any train and - as we've established - will get stung for an excess if nobody tells them otherwise.
I'm not sure I follow your argument. You can't really be saying the ticketing rules are too complicated to be conveyed to passengers and consequently we have to accept that they just pick a train and get charged an excess if it's the wrong one, can you?
And I am not advocating only telling passengers about one of the restrictions.I'm saying ticket rules are very complex. A lot of rail staff don't understand them. What hope do passengers have?
If I got a ticket and was told a TOC didn't take them, I'd certainly assume there were no other problems in using any train and no other restrictions. Why tell me just one condition if there are more? What makes this one condition more important than all the others? Highlighting just one condition and ignoring all the rest will only add more problems.
But if we tell everyone everything it's going to get very time consuming selling tickets. Particularly as many staff selling them don't understand all the rules either.And I am not advocating only telling passengers about one of the restrictions.
In a properly regulated industry it would not, in my humble opinion, even be possible to have a debate about whether people buying a thing should be told what they're buying.But if we tell everyone everything it's going to get very time consuming selling tickets. Particularly as many staff selling them don't understand all the rules either.
The reality is many staff don't know/understand/care about the rules. If the ticket seller did painfully explain every condition on the ticket correctly, it doesn't matter if they encounter a member of staff on the journey who is clueless and denies travel. If every member of staff knew the rules correctly about every ticket it might be different. But there's no way that will happen.In a properly regulated industry it would not, in my humble opinion, even be possible to have a debate about whether people buying a thing should be told what they're buying.
However, it has never been easier for a member of staff faced with an unfamiliar ticket to look up relevant restrictions on the spot.The reality is many staff don't know/understand/care about the rules. If the ticket seller did painfully explain every condition on the ticket correctly, it doesn't matter if they encounter a member of staff on the journey who is clueless and denies travel. If every member of staff knew the rules correctly about every ticket it might be different. But there's no way that will happen.