Arriva Buses (including Greenline)

[ScotGG]

A system in which the taxpayer has to pay for loss making routes while not being able to run profitable routes to cross subsidise others - that serve the greater good - is broken.

 

[Megafuss]

A system in which the taxpayer has to pay for loss making routes while not being able to run profitable routes to cross subsidise others - that serve the greater good - is broken.

In reality, cross subsidy was happening pre covid. Not that operators will say that, for obvious reasons.

 

[Deerfold]

I though the £2 fare was the incentive to use the buses. Notwthstanding of course the NCTS for those 65 and over.

Yep, there's that, for 3 months, in winter, in England. And nothing else. I'll classify that as not a lot (and for those using TfL or buses entirely within South Yorkshire, West Yorkshire or Greater Manchester that's nothing at all - so about 45% of passengers in the UK will benefit from it if they don't already pay less than that with a period pass or ENTCS - I was interested to see one of my local routes has the single reduced from £3.70 to £2 until I realised my usual ticket is a day ticket for £3.90).

 

[317 forever]

According to January Buses magazine, Arriva are selling their entire transport businesses in Denmark & Serbia, plus their bus operation in Poland, to private equity investors Mutares.

I wonder how any countries still have Arriva operations now?

 

[Deerfold]

According to January Buses magazine, Arriva are selling their entire transport businesses in Denmark & Serbia, plus their bus operation in Poland, to private equity investors Mutares.

I wonder how any countries still have Arriva operations now?

According to Wikipedia, 11.

Arriva - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Croatia
Czechia
Hungary
Italy
Netherlands
Poland (Trains)
Portugal
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
UK

 

[317 forever]

According to Wikipedia, 11.

Arriva - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Croatia
Czechia
Hungary
Italy
Netherlands
Poland (Trains)
Portugal
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
UK

OK thank you. Even allowing for other divestments, it seems they still have a majority of their portfolio they had before DB considered floating Arriva off or announced they would divest non-core operations.

 

[Man of Kent]

According to Wikipedia, 11.

Arriva - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Croatia
Czechia
Hungary
Italy
Netherlands
Poland (Trains)
Portugal
Slovakia
Slovenia
Spain
UK

The sale of Portugal to the Dan Group was announced in the middle of last year and completed shortly before Christmas.

 

[pwgb]

The following sets of forthcoming Arriva service changes in and around Stevenage, Hertford and Welwyn Garden City have recently appeared on the Intalink website:-

February 2023

This is a summary of the forthcoming changes to local bus services in Hertfordshire in February 2023

www.intalink.org.uk

This is a summary of the forthcoming changes to local bus services in Hertfordshire. For further information about a particular service please contact the Bus Operator or Intalink (0300 123 4050, email: [email protected]).​

Updated 16-01-23

390 Ware to Stevenage
Arriva
Service will be withdrawn. A replacement service is being investigated.
From 19.02.23

856 Six Hills Stevenage to John Henry Newman School
Arriva
Service will be withdrawn. A replacement service is being investigated.
From 19.02.23

SB1 Stevenage Bus Station (Circular)
Arriva
Minor changes to timetable (frequency reductions due to driver availability).
From 19.02.23

SB2/SB3 Stevenage Bus Station (Circular)
Arriva
Minor changes to timetable (frequency reductions due to driver availability).
From 19.02.23

SB4/SB40 Stevenage Bus Station (Circular)
Arriva
Minor changes to timetable (frequency reductions due to driver availability).
From 19.02.23

SB5/SB50 Stevenage Bus Station (Circular)
Arriva
Minor changes to timetable (frequency reductions due to driver availability).
From 19.02.23

SB7 Stevenage Bus Station to Great Ashby (Circular)
Arriva
Minor changes to timetable, reduced Sunday service to hourly (frequency reductions due to driver availability).
From 19.02.23

SB8/SB9 Stevenage Bus Station to Symonds Green/Bragbury End (Circular)
Arriva
Minor changes to timetable, reduced Sunday service to hourly (frequency reductions due to driver availability).
From 19.02.23

SB10 Stevenage Bus Station to Old Town (Circular)
Arriva
Service will be withdrawn. A replacement service is being investigated.
From 19.02.23

March 2023

This is a summary of the forthcoming changes to local bus services in Hertfordshire in March 2023

www.intalink.org.uk

This is a summary of the forthcoming changes to local bus services in Hertfordshire. For further information about a particular service please contact the Bus Operator or Intalink (0300 123 4050, email: [email protected]).​

242 Waltham Cross to Welwyn Garden City
Arriva
Service will be withdrawn. A replacement service is being investigated.
From 26.03.23

310 Hertford to Waltham Cross
Arriva
Timetable to be amended to assist with punctuality of the service.
From 26.03.23

331 Hertford to Buntingford
Arriva
Service will be withdrawn. A replacement service is being investigated.
From 26.03.23

395 Hertford Sele Farm Estate Circular
Arriva
Monday to Friday PM timetable adjusted by 5 minutes and departure from Ware College adjusted.
From 26.03.23

401 Welwyn Garden City Bus Station to Panshanger (Circular)
Arriva
Sunday service to be withdrawn. Monday to Saturday timetable will be unaffected.
From 26.03.23

404/405 Welwyn Garden City Bus Station to South Hatfield (Circular)
Arriva
Services will be withdrawn. Replacement services are being investigated.
From 26.03.23

 

[MedwayValiant]

The 331 is the one that surprises me there. That route has always been well loaded when I have used it (including last Saturday on one of my occasional trips back to my old stomping grounds in Hertfordshire). Buntingford has doubled in size in the last twenty years and become mildly fashionable.

If they want it, I'd see Richmond (Barley) as the most likely to take the route on. They already operate the service between Buntingford and Royston (passing their garage in Barley), which was part of the 331 route for a time and could perhaps be recombined with it. Maybe they could drop Hertford, since Buntingford folk mostly go to Ware and there are plenty of other buses between Ware and Hertford anyway.

 

[RELL6L]

The 331 is the one that surprises me there. That route has always been well loaded when I have used it (including last Saturday on one of my occasional trips back to my old stomping grounds in Hertfordshire). Buntingford has doubled in size in the last twenty years and become mildly fashionable.

If they want it, I'd see Richmond (Barley) as the most likely to take the route on. They already operate the service between Buntingford and Royston (passing their garage in Barley), which was part of the 331 route for a time and could perhaps be recombined with it. Maybe they could drop Hertford, since Buntingford folk mostly go to Ware and there are plenty of other buses between Ware and Hertford anyway.

I am also surprised by the 331. An very long standing hourly service invariably with double deckers during the week, presumably for school traffic.

The 390 is the other significant cut, less of a surprise as I suspect it has always been a bit marginal and parallels the railway between Stevenage and Hertford. Most of the other March cuts are tendered Sunday services while the SB10 is Saturdays only with plenty of other routes nearby.

 

[A0wen]

I am also surprised by the 331. An very long standing hourly service invariably with double deckers during the week, presumably for school traffic.

The 390 is the other significant cut, less of a surprise as I suspect it has always been a bit marginal and parallels the railway between Stevenage and Hertford. Most of the other March cuts are tendered Sunday services while the SB10 is Saturdays only with plenty of other routes nearby.

Not sure the 390 is "significant" - the Herford - Stevenage corridor has been predominantly Herts County Council tendered services ever since the mid 80s.

The 750 which used to run Ware / Hertford - Stevenage - Hitchin - Luton - Hemel was a contract and when the 100/101 came into being (can't recall if it was Sovereign, Luton & District or Arriva) as a commercial route, they dropped the Stevenage - Hertford section.

The 390 has been through the hands of several operators over the years, including IIRC SM Travel and Reg's. I think Centrebus and possible Central Connect may also have had it at one point ? In fact it may have been one which passed to Arriva when Centrebus closed their Stevenage depot

The 331 is more surprising - that dates back to London Transport days, so is a very long standing route and apart from a couple of odd journeys had been commercially run.

The 242 (Sunday's only) and 404/405 are also recent Arriva acquisitions - they were handed back by UNO only a few months ago. A bit like the 357 which Uno handed back and Arriva have now stepped away from.

It's going to be very interesting to see who Herts County Council find to run these - Uno don't seem to be taking on work, Arriva have handed them back, Metroline have pulled out of their Herts work, Centrebus are operating out of Luton which would mean a chunk of dead mileage.

I guess Sullivan bus might take on the Sunday 242 - it's not far from their base at South Mimms and they took on the 84 when Metroline withdrew from that.

On the 404/405, I'd be *very* tempted to dust off the old 330/340 route and run QE2 Hospital > Hollybush > Woodhall > Town centre > Stanborough > Hatfield Tesco > Hatfield Town Centre > South Hatfield (via Woods Ave) > Galleria (via Bishops Rise) and onto St Albans.

 

[MedwayValiant]

As well as the 750, the 100 and 101 replaced the western half of the various routes numbered between 92 and 99. They were Luton and District routes marketed as "The HB Connection" (connecting Herts and Beds), which ran from Luton via Hitchin and Letchworth to Baldock and Stotfold. Bizarre as it seems now, before the 100 and 101 came along there had never been any very frequent service between Luton and Stevenage.

The Hertford to Stevenage via main road route might have been "important" before Watton at Stone re-acquired a railway station in 1982, but probably not since. I certaimly remember SM Travel (Harlow) and Reg's Coaches (Codicote) having it. Central Connect may have had it when they were called Rusty Bus, and Richmond (Barley) have had it as well.

Central Connect have taken on a lot of stuff around Bishop's Stortford and Saffron Walden in the last couple of years, but are struggling for drivers and might not want anything so far west at this time.

I suppose another surprise might be a route which is not being withdrawn, given the ones that are. That's the rather puzzling 324 which runs between Welwyn Garden City and Hertford, not via the only place of any size in between viz Panshanger. It's an hourly service operating seven days a week, connecting two towns which have never had much to say to one another and also have the 724 running betwen them which does go via Panshanger.

 

[A0wen]

As well as the 750, the 100 and 101 replaced the western half of the various routes numbered between 92 and 99. They were Luton and District routes marketed as "The HB Connection" (connecting Herts and Beds), which ran from Luton via Hitchin and Letchworth to Baldock and Stotfold. Bizarre as it seems now, before the 100 and 101 came along there had never been any very frequent service between Luton and Stevenage.

Not really - that was historic. A diect consequence of the London Transport "protected area". So Eastern / United Counties couldn't run into Stevenage, so their routes ran Luton - Hitchin - Letchworth - Baldock, which was the boundary of the protected area.

Birch Bros ran a cross country service akin to the current day 44.

I suppose another surprise might be a route which is not being withdrawn, given the ones that are. That's the rather puzzling 324 which runs between Welwyn Garden City and Hertford, not via the only place of any size in between viz Panshanger. It's an hourly service operating seven days a week, connecting two towns which have never had much to say to one another and also have the 724 running betwen them which does go via Panshanger.

Completely agree on the 324, for the life of me I don't understand how that route came into being (it was a recent introduction) given demand for Welwyn Garden City - Hertford travel is limited even on a weekday, let alone a Sunday and the 724 more than copes.

 

[Mwanesh]

The 100 and 101 only became enhanced around 2006 I think. Before that the early morning journey left as a 92 or 94 service. Then changed at Hitchin to a SB8 Bragbury End bus. The SB8 was a Hitchin depot service. After 2006 the early morning journeys were operated by Hitchin and Stevenage depots. When Hitchin depot closed the 100 and 101 and 102 services were operated by both Luton and Stevenage.

 

[Man of Kent]

Not really - that was historic. A diect consequence of the London Transport "protected area". So Eastern / United Counties couldn't run into Stevenage, so their routes ran Luton - Hitchin - Letchworth - Baldock, which was the boundary of the protected area.

Birch Bros ran a cross country service akin to the current day 44.



Completely agree on the 324, for the life of me I don't understand how that route came into being (it was a recent introduction) given demand for Welwyn Garden City - Hertford travel is limited even on a weekday, let alone a Sunday and the 724 more than copes.

As far as I know, 324 is a wholly tendered service - or it was when it was a separate registration.
The Intalink PDF timetable still shows it as "operated with financial support from the Better Bus Funding scheme".

 

[RELL6L]

Central Connect may have had it when they were called Rusty Bus, and Richmond (Barley) have had it as well.

I think you'll find it was Trusty Bus - good name though - like Banga Buses in the Midlands!

I agree the 324 is probably ring-fenced by being funded from a different pot at the moment. The 390 is a commercial services and the 331 is about 50-50 commercial and contracted Mon-Fri, all contracted Saturdays. I wonder if the contract is expiring or it is being handed back early. Interestingly the Royston Coaches 18 is commercial, I do think there's a possibility of linking these together. The difficulty, as ever, is going to be finding resources.

 

[A0wen]

I think you'll find it was Trusty Bus - good name though - like Banga Buses in the Midlands!

I agree the 324 is probably ring-fenced by being funded from a different pot at the moment. The 390 is a commercial services and the 331 is about 50-50 commercial and contracted Mon-Fri, all contracted Saturdays. I wonder if the contract is expiring or it is being handed back early. Interestingly the Royston Coaches 18 is commercial, I do think there's a possibility of linking these together. The difficulty, as ever, is going to be finding resources.

I'm not sure the 390 is commercial - back in 2018 it was under contract to Centrebus from Herts County Council.

The response to an FOI request somebody submitted lists the routes which were under contract to the county council.

Supported bus services - a Freedom of Information request to Hertfordshire County Council

I am looking to obtain a fuller understanding of supported bus services in the county, in order to ascertain which services would be lost without public funding. Please can you provide a full list of all supported bus services in the fiscal year 2017/18? Please include the service name and...

www.whatdotheyknow.com

And the 390's been a contract for many years - don't think anyone had registered it commercially - some pics on Flickr (not mine) of various operators vehicles on it.

herts - sm travel harlow wcd525k stevenage 88 JL

Explore johnmightycat1's 97416 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

SMTravel-D555HNW-Stevenage-S90-200897b

SM Travel D555 HNW Former West Yorkshire Road Car Iveco 49.10 / Robin Hood Service S90 Stevenage bus station 20th August 1997

www.flickr.com

Dart Demo

Reg's of Hertford operated three very early Dennis Dart Duple Dartlines, two after use as demonstrators. I first came across G541 JBV when it was on demonstration to Devon General (no, I haven't got a photo) but here it is in Stevenage in May, 1996. I don't know what happened to this bus but was...

www.flickr.com

Centrebus HDR Hertford

Centrebus Optare Solo 224 (PJZ 9452) in glorious HDR. I had just arrived back from Stevenage on it and I found it very comfortable.

www.flickr.com

Richmonds

Volvo B7RLE/Wright Eclipse Urban RIG6494 (GN06EVM) waits time at Stevenage Bus Station before operating a 390 to Ware (despite the blind).

www.flickr.com

 

[A0wen]

The Hertford to Stevenage via main road route might have been "important" before Watton at Stone re-acquired a railway station in 1982, but probably not since. I certaimly remember SM Travel (Harlow) and Reg's Coaches (Codicote) having it. Central Connect may have had it when they were called Rusty Bus, and Richmond (Barley) have had it as well.

Clarification on Reg's - they only moved to Welwyn in around 2009.

If you have a look at their O licence changes, it had two Hertford addresses - Spencer Street (round the corner from Hertford East station) until about 2004, then Foxholes Farm on London Road. The use of the Welwyn address started in 2009 - and it's the yard which Welwyn Hatfield Line started out using.

Looking on Companies House it seems Reg's has been sold in 2016 - the Hunt family which had set it up and owned it seem to have sold it on now.

 

[SEGalaxy375]

5 new E200 MMCs to enter at Gillingham soon (image shows YX72OFM in Arriva livery)

Photo was taken by me

 

[Blindtraveler]

A welcome addition. Could do with something new for the 101 and 700 sapphires

 

[londonteacher]

A welcome addition. Could do with something new for the 101 and 700 sapphires

Funny you say that. One of these new MMCs has been on the 101 all day!

 

[Man of Kent]

Funny you say that. One of these new MMCs has been on the 101 all day!

Is that from physical observation, or looking at BusTimes? If the latter, I wouldn't be surprised to find the ticket machine identity isn't the same as the actual bus. (Indeed, as the ticket machine has a history back into 2022, it defintely wasn't new in an E200MMC).

 

[londonteacher]

Is that from physical observation, or looking at BusTimes? If the latter, I wouldn't be surprised to find the ticket machine identity isn't the same as the actual bus. (Indeed, as the ticket machine has a history back into 2022, it defintely wasn't new in an E200MMC).

Physical observation this evening!

 

[Man of Kent]

Physical observation this evening!

Thanks. Rather sad that such a small bus could be deemed adequate for what was one of the busiest routes in the Medway Towns.

 

[alex397]

Thanks. Rather sad that such a small bus could be deemed adequate for what was one of the busiest routes in the Medway Towns.

Apart from a few dedicated members of staff, I do get the impression that Arriva Kent have almost given up.
They may have put 5 brand new buses in the fleet but it’s a drop in the ocean in terms of investment.

 

[londonteacher]

Thanks. Rather sad that such a small bus could be deemed adequate for what was one of the busiest routes in the Medway Towns.

It could be related to drivers trained up etc. But it was full and standing leaving Chatham towards Maidstone.

Managed to get one on the last 100 tonight. A much better fit around St Mary’s Island.

Unfortunately, Arriva seems to have random bus allocation!

 

[Blindtraveler]

Strongly suspect it was simply deputising for a decker that was unavailable. I travelled a few weeks ago on a strike day picking up a101 at the king Charles hotel and changing over in Chatham onto a 700 towards Bluewater, neither service had its correct bus allocation and and this was perhaps more than a little unfortunate on a day where I was certainly not the only one using this or similar combinations of routings to head for ebbsfleet international or Dartford to access some of the few remaining train services operating in Kent during network rail strike action

 

[londonteacher]

Strongly suspect it was simply deputising for a decker that was unavailable. I travelled a few weeks ago on a strike day picking up a101 at the king Charles hotel and changing over in Chatham onto a 700 towards Bluewater, neither service had its correct bus allocation and and this was perhaps more than a little unfortunate on a day where I was certainly not the only one using this or similar combinations of routings to head for ebbsfleet international or Dartford to access some of the few remaining train services operating in Kent during network rail strike action

I can assure you that this was intentional. It has been posted on a Facebook group for Medway that the buses will be used on routes where drivers are trained. This will continue until enough drivers for the intended routes 145/164 are trained up.

Double deckers were used on routes such as the 1 and 2 which could have swapped to the 101 also.

 

[Andy Pacer]

I can assure you that this was intentional. It has been posted on a Facebook group for Medway that the buses will be used on routes where drivers are trained. This will continue until enough drivers for the intended routes 145/164 are trained up.

Double deckers were used on routes such as the 1 and 2 which could have swapped to the 101 also.

Presumably the drivers require familiarisation on the mirrors.

 

[londonteacher]

Presumably the drivers require familiarisation on the mirrors.

Exactly that! The public reviews of the buses seem mixed. They love the buses, just hope the service will be improved to match the high quality of the buses.