Aslef strikes and OT ban called…

[LowLevel]

Absolute carnage on the Snow Hill lines today. Have just walked into the station to find a massive queue and word that there are hardly any trains after 19:00 tonight. It's inpy action short of strike too. looked on national rail and nearly everything is cancelled. It's only Monday.

Snow Hill lines always seem to be most badly affected when there's action short of a strike. With Birmingham being a bile place to work on the railway at this time of year I suppose it isn't really a surprise.

 

[whoosh]

Oh look! The Government wants to implement Minimum Sevice Levels as soon as possible because there's an ASLEF dispute (that could be solved very easily):

Transport Committee Chair Iain Stewart MP said:

“The Government has signalled its intention to implement MSLs as soon as possible. Given it has an unresolved dispute with the train drivers’ union ASLEF, we could see these regulations in action very soon.

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/153/transport-committee/news/198784/transport-committee-warns-government-not-to-overlook-risks-as-it-presses-ahead-with-plans-for-rail-strikes-regulations/

 

[Kernow_Celtic]

If Dft ever got through any of these crazy proposed changes, you would see an almost immediate massive uptick in drivers getting "accomodated", for a whole variety of reasons. I'd actually argue, ultimately it would lead to less flexibility, and a requirement for a much larger number of employed drivers.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

By the end of the current December industrial action, will ASLEF honestly expect any resultant movement by any TOC?

 

[dk1]

By the end of the current December industrial action, will ASLEF honestly expect any resultant movement by any TOC?

Probably not as no TOCs have any power to negotiate do they?

 

[whoosh]

If Dft ever got through any of these crazy proposed changes, you would see an almost immediate massive uptick in drivers getting "accomodated", for a whole variety of reasons. I'd actually argue, ultimately it would lead to less flexibility, and a requirement for a much larger number of employed drivers.

They aren't that bothered about our T&Cs. They just want us on strike to fulfil and action their Minimum Service manifesto promise.
Everything's been thrown at it. The country and a whole industry's economic post-pandemic recovery.

 

[Krokodil]

My car journeys aggravate far more than the train. I get stuck in traffic on a daily basis and the road conditions are miserable. Parking anywhere is it's usual nightmare and I tend to chose my destination based on parking. There are places I will absolutely avoid because taking the car is frankly, too much hassle.

I often wonder why there is a double standard - one bad experience on a train and it's "never again", yet car journeys are delayed all of the time and people still make them.

 

[trainophile]

Just checking my journey from Southport to Scarborough for tomorrow and it's all gone to pot. 09:26 SOP-MCV disappeared, 10:57 MCV-LDS still running, 12:34 LDS-SCA disappeared. Wondering if anyone could help me with my options. Advance split tickets, all bought on Trainsplit. I was careful to check a few days ago that none of my booked trains were with striking operators, but presumably it's the overtime ban.

Could I use my existing tickets and cobble together a reasonable route, or should I buy a new set of tickets and claim the whole journey back? Would cost me an extra £8-odd. Tempted to cancel the whole trip actually, but then I'd need to claim the return tickets back as well.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I often wonder why there is a double standard - one bad experience on a train and it's "never again", yet car journeys are delayed all of the time and people still make them.

Cars have a habit of not going on strike....until AI is fully developed....

 

[Jamesrob637]

Just checking my journey from Southport to Scarborough for tomorrow and it's all gone to pot. 09:26 SOP-MCV disappeared, 10:57 MCV-LDS still running, 12:34 LDS-SCA disappeared. Wondering if anyone could help me with my options. Advance split tickets, all bought on Trainsplit. I was careful to check a few days ago that none of my booked trains were with striking operators, but presumably it's the overtime ban.

Could I use my existing tickets and cobble together a reasonable route, or should I buy a new set of tickets and claim the whole journey back? Would cost me an extra £8-odd. Tempted to cancel the whole trip actually, but then I'd need to claim the return tickets back as well.

Just use your Noggin and take any reasonable route

 

[bramling]

I often wonder why there is a double standard - one bad experience on a train and it's "never again", yet car journeys are delayed all of the time and people still make them.

I suspect that it’s because no matter how delayed a car journey might be, you’re not stuck in a confined space with others. The latter seems to have become more of an issue now a good proportion of the population don’t seem to know how to behave in public spaces. 20 minutes on a XC 170 the other night was enough for me - several families all playing music or films out loud on their phone.

 

[trainophile]

Just use your Noggin and take any reasonable route

Are the usual rules not applicable in such circumstances then? Different TOCs?

Edit: Have cancelled Travelodge booking and emailed Trainsplit regarding a refund. No big deal, it was just an impulsively booked short break.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Probably not as no TOCs have any power to negotiate do they?

ASLEF in that case must expect even less movement from the body now in charge of decision making, so was the current few days (in)action just to cause annoyance for annoyance sake?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Indeed, everyone has the right to an opinion. But is an opinion really valid if it's based on zero experience of a certain profession, around a pay deal/changes to Ts & Cs that will have zero effect on the person offering their opinion? I suggest not.

The travelling public are stakeholders so have every right to an opinion

But then "the railway paymasters" aka DfT don't always see it that way

 

[dk1]

ASLEF in that case must expect even less movement from the body now in charge of decision making, so was the current few days (in)action just to cause annoyance for annoyance sake?

Why would they/we stop then? You obviously do not understand the dispute. Just for annoyance

 

[Killingworth]

I often wonder why there is a double standard - one bad experience on a train and it's "never again", yet car journeys are delayed all of the time and people still make them.

This is a digression from the subject of the thread but when I am delayed in my car I'm cocooned in my own space with possible options to divert or stop for refreshments when convenient. Having been trapped in both traffic and on a train for 3 hours I know the drawbacks of both.

My previous point was that all parties need heads knocking together. The 'fault' in such disputes is very rarely 100% on one side. The current situation is helping neither passengers nor rail personnel and probably not HM Treasury either.

 

[class 9]

Thank you. It’s all rather a minefield. We will still be giving up a huge part of our current agreements on spare cover for absolutely nothing. Who anywhere ever imagines that this is acceptable to the membership? Added to other attacks on T&Cs it’s farcical and only worthy of a belly laugh in my opinion.

This highlights the folly of a one size fits all offer, you mentioned more than 3 hrs movement from spare is essentially a red line, but at XC we've got nearly unlimited movement, the only restriction is moving forward you must be finished within 11 hrs of your original spare time.

 

[dk1]

This highlights the folly of a one size fits all offer, you mentioned more than 3 hrs movement from spare is essentially a red line, but at XC we've got nearly unlimited movement, the only restriction is moving forward you must be finished within 11 hrs of your original spare time.

Oh my days that sounds horrendous. I know you have a much higher salary but still.

 

[chuff chuff]

Oh my days that sounds horrendous.

Indeed.

 

[Sleepy]

TLGN and C2C seem to have lost the plot tonight with ad hoc cancellations all over the shop.

 

[BPN2022]

Definitely noticeable across the country today and weekend just gone with ASOS having an impact.

Surprised no more dates have been announced to be honest. Guessing we are safe up to Mon 18 Dec so far.

 

[TBSchenker]

For Christmas Eve they'd have to announce it by the 10th December, or more realistically the last working day 2 weeks prior which is Friday 8th.

 

[dk1]

TLGN and C2C seem to have lost the plot tonight with ad hoc cancellations all over the shop.

Understandable. With working to rule there’s going to be no cooperation from drivers whatsoever even with as little as 1 minute involved.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Why would they/we stop then? You obviously do not understand the dispute. Just for annoyance

So.in your own words that all will understand, what exactly will this current few days ASLEF industrial action actually achieve for its members?

 

[dk1]

So.in your own words that all will understand, what exactly will this current few days ASLEF industrial action actually achieve for its members?

Exactly the same as any strike does. Feeling is strong to continue this as long as it takes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Exactly the same as any strike does. Feeling is strong to continue this as long as it takes.

So it was just coincidental that this current ASLEF inaction came as soon as the RMT reached a settlement

 

[Krokodil]

This highlights the folly of a one size fits all offer, you mentioned more than 3 hrs movement from spare is essentially a red line, but at XC we've got nearly unlimited movement, the only restriction is moving forward you must be finished within 11 hrs of your original spare time.

Of course XC (as well as VWC) agreed significant rises in exchange for these conditions. The government expects everyone to take on the same conditions, but won't do anything to harmonise pay between the lower-paying TOCs and the higher-paying ones. In fact as it's the same percentage on offer the gap in pay is widening further.

 

[12LDA28C]

By the end of the current December industrial action, will ASLEF honestly expect any resultant movement by any TOC?

You're aware that this isn't a dispute between drivers and the TOC that employs them, right? So even if an individual TOC wanted to negotiate with its own employees, they are powerless to do so under the current system?

The travelling public are stakeholders so have every right to an opinion

But then "the railway paymasters" aka DfT don't always see it that way

The travelling public absolutely have a right to be of the opinion that the situation needs sorting ASAP so that a reliable train service can run, yes. They don't have the right to demand that drivers or anyone else in the rail industry accept changes to Ts & Cs that would adversely affect their work/life balance and levels of fatigue in a safety-critical role, no.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You're aware that this isn't a dispute between drivers and the TOC that employs them, right? So even if an individual TOC wanted to negotiate with its own employees, they are powerless to do so under the current system?

That point was answered a few postings ago by another contributor.

 

[12LDA28C]

ASLEF in that case must expect even less movement from the body now in charge of decision making, so was the current few days (in)action just to cause annoyance for annoyance sake?

Or maybe it was in response to the deal that was recently offered to, and accepted by the RMT which has not been offered to ASLEF as most ASLEF members I know say they would be happy to accept a similar deal.

That point was answered a few postings ago by another contributor.

Indeed, I'm just amazed that anyone still thinks this is a dispute between TOCs and employees. If the traditional machinery of negotiation relating to changes to pay and Ts & Cs were still in place, TOC by TOC, this dispute would not have happened.