Assessments & Medicals discussion

[TJC3]

Hi,

In terms of the stage 1 assessments, I have been informed that I will be doing the following -

• Group Bourdon (enhanced standard)
• TEA-OCC (Test of Everyday Attention)
• Trainability for Rules and Procedures test (TRP Part 1 & TRP Part 2) - part 2 enhanced standard

Does anyone know which tests under the TEA-OCC I will have to do?
I know it will comprise of the tones selection test and the telephone directory search test but wondered if there is anything else as well? Do you also have to do both tests simultaneously?

Tried searching the forum but couldn’t find anything specifically for the depot driver role.

Thanks

 

[Ontherail99]

Good evening all,

I am currently in the hiring process to become a trainee train driver.

I just have a question about the peripheral vision test.

Do they test each eye field of vision individually or together on the pre appointment / initial drivers medical?

If anyone could shed any light on the peripheral vision test they encountered it would be greatly appreciated.

Kind Regards,

 

[CJBX]

Evening all. I have my medical coming up shortly with Northern for Train Driver. I have a medical every year at work currently which is eyesight (cover left, cover right) reading letters from the chart. A hearing test which is pressing a button with headphones on when you hear the beep, and urine sample.

Anything else that they do on the driver medical? Many thanks in advance

 

[Murgy_murg]

Hi all,

Just got through some assessment's for a driver apprenticeship with LNER and I've now been asked to upload two individual certificates for my GCSE's in maths and english. This is the exact wording "You must upload two individual certificates and these must highlight Maths and English at grade C or above (or equivalent such as Functional Skills)"

The certificates I received from my GCSE's were not individual by subject but were presented as 1 certificate per examining body. So for instance I might have 1 certificate from AQA which has results for 4 different subjects (including maths), and 1 certificate from OCR with results from another 5 subjects (including English). I'm hoping these certificates would be valid as I was never presented with anything else upon completing my GCSE's.

Any information regarding this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks !

 

[Horizon22]

Hi all,

Just got through some assessment's for a driver apprenticeship with LNER and I've now been asked to upload two individual certificates for my GCSE's in maths and english. This is the exact wording "You must upload two individual certificates and these must highlight Maths and English at grade C or above (or equivalent such as Functional Skills)"

The certificates I received from my GCSE's were not individual by subject but were presented as 1 certificate per examining body. So for instance I might have 1 certificate from AQA which has results for 4 different subjects (including maths), and 1 certificate from OCR with results from another 5 subjects (including English). I'm hoping these certificates would be valid as I was never presented with anything else upon completing my GCSE's.

Any information regarding this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks !

Yes that will be fine - they just need the evidence and they can see that on the certificates. If they have any queries, they will contact you back. They’ve probably dealt with such scenarios plenty of times before.

 

[Murgy_murg]

Yes that will be fine - they just need the evidence and they can see that on the certificates. If they have any queries, they will contact you back. They’ve probably dealt with such scenarios plenty of times before.

Thanks for the confirmation !

 

[Fat Pav]

Hi all,

Have my assessments for Conductor/Guard next week and looking for an online resource for practicing the SCAAT section. Does anyone either have a package I can download and print with multiple papers, or know the best place to source them?

Cheers

 

[Chrysalis]

Hi all,

Have my assessments for Conductor/Guard next week and looking for an online resource for practicing the SCAAT section. Does anyone either have a package I can download and print with multiple papers, or know the best place to source them?

Cheers

You can practice SCAAT with the group bourdon tool (found elsewhere here on the forum) - You can change the settings

 

[Fat Pav]

You can practice SCAAT with the group bourdon tool (found elsewhere here on the forum) - You can change the settings

That’s handy to know, will check that out later. Just assumed it was a Bourdon test!

 

[Piper720]

Both of those are already in place. As posted in another thread and I can also confirm a Trainee at my TOC are outside the vision standard but got a derogation based on a 3rd party assessment.

The Ishihara has never been mandated and TOCs have always been able to use an alternative. I wouldn't even say it's the TOCs choice. The medical is usually done by an outside agency. We currently use Medigold for all our medicals. If they decided to check colour vision using a different test, they would be more than within their rights to do so.




This is an interesting change but might be a simple as stating the number of plates that need to be passed.

Medical standards do change. A prime example is for Hearing Aids and Lazer.Eye Surgery. Both are now permitted, where previously they weren't.

Whatever happens. You will still be required to pass whatever tests they decide and to whatever standard is requir

I think you need to clarify this. I've certainly read that it is a diagnostic test




The Ishihara is probably the most widely used test for colour blindness. I am unsure why you don't consider it a 'proper' test.

Colour vision guidance material GM | Civil Aviation Authority

Implementing Rules (IRs), Acceptable Means of Compliance (AMCs) and Guidance Material (GM) on colour vision

www.caa.co.uk

The Ishihara is good practice and fair. Everyone is tested and must meet the same standard. It's also industry standard and used worldwide across multiple sectors.

The Lantern test isn't as accurate and allows people to pass at a higher rate.

I have passed all assessments, just waiting on the medical. I pass the ishihara with no issues since it tests for red/green. I have a very slight blue/yellow deficiency discovered via a CAD test done for an aviation medical. I met and passed the commercial pilot colour vision requirements. Do I mention this at my medical, will this likely be an issue do you know?

Many thanks

 

[Chrysalis]

I have to sit the driver assessments later this month and I'm a bit worried about the tests and have some questions that I'm hoping someone can answer. Apologies if they've already been asked elsewhere, I've tried to look.

1. TRP1. I'm not feeling confident with this one. I got 2 questions wrong out of the 8 found in the practice material I was sent so my partner helped me practice by having me read random sections from a rail related rules book I managed to find online. Each page is approximately 1 A4. He reads the text for me, then I take 3 minutes to read it and then I'm asked questions. I've tried to make notes but can't write quickly enough, and I also fear I get too many questions wrong. How dense is the line spacing in the text in the real test? Does it take up a whole A4? I've seen conflicting information about how long you get to read it, does the examiner read the text first and then you get to read the text yourself for 3 minutes or how does it work and how long do you get? My partner timed how long it took him to read the text last time he helped me and it took 5 minutes, together with the 3 minutes of reading it myself, am I giving myself too much time? Or is it a possibility that the text he chose for me simply contains more text than the text used in the real test? (Line spacing denser, smaller font)
2. For the TEA OCC, are you meant to circle symbols column by column or are you meant to go left to right like when doing the group bourdon test?
3. Does anyone know if you do the MMI on the same day as the other assessments with GTR?

I'm feeling quite down about this to be honest. I feel OK about the other tests (apart from 2 hand coordination test which is impossible to emulate at home) and never thought I'd have issues with this one.

 

[Samzino]

I have to sit the driver assessments later this month and I'm a bit worried about the tests and have some questions that I'm hoping someone can answer. Apologies if they've already been asked elsewhere, I've tried to look.

1. TRP1. I'm not feeling confident with this one. I got 2 questions wrong out of the 8 found in the practice material I was sent so my partner helped me practice by having me read random sections from a rail related rules book I managed to find online. Each page is approximately 1 A4. He reads the text for me, then I take 3 minutes to read it and then I'm asked questions. I've tried to make notes but can't write quickly enough, and I also fear I get too many questions wrong. How dense is the line spacing in the text in the real test? Does it take up a whole A4? I've seen conflicting information about how long you get to read it, does the examiner read the text first and then you get to read the text yourself for 3 minutes or how does it work and how long do you get? My partner timed how long it took him to read the text last time he helped me and it took 5 minutes, together with the 3 minutes of reading it myself, am I giving myself too much time? Or is it a possibility that the text he chose for me simply contains more text than the text used in the real test? (Line spacing denser, smaller font)
2. For the TEA OCC, are you meant to circle symbols column by column or are you meant to go left to right like when doing the group bourdon test?
3. Does anyone know if you do the MMI on the same day as the other assessments with GTR?

I'm feeling quite down about this to be honest. I feel OK about the other tests (apart from 2 hand coordination test which is impossible to emulate at home) and never thought I'd have issues with this one.

TRP1 I didn't practice this at all but that's because I'm quite confident with recall. On the day you're played an Audio of the information. Ours was on a train breaking system. You're then given about 5mins(if I remember correctly) to make notes and read over the information yourself before all the notes are taken.

Personally my strategy was to read over and remember specfic context. For example the colour of the emergency brake button which was a red circle. What the braking system is for? Logically to stop the wheels running. Some of the multi choice answers were quite common sense if you were really stuck but I found all 18 fine memory wise.

I'd not stress tbh. Friends of mine all recommended to Practice by using a random article from a newspaper everyday. Get someone to make 18 questions from that article on paper that you can't initially see. Then they should read the paragraph to you or play it via chatgpt/ text to speech. After that give you 5mins to read and make notes on the article. Then show you the questions for the first time of which you have 7mins to answer all 18, timed.

The text did take about an a4 sheet. Wasn't too dense from my memory and the questions were quite easy if text was read well. If you're practicing then you'd want to set yourself at slightly a higher level so imo practice with newspaper articles.

Tea-Occ you do not go from left to right like group bourdon on the phone book bit. This will slow you down dramatically and actually you're told by the examiners to go column to column aka from up to down then move to next column and repeat.

I have passed all assessments, just waiting on the medical. I pass the ishihara with no issues since it tests for red/green. I have a very slight blue/yellow deficiency discovered via a CAD test done for an aviation medical. I met and passed the commercial pilot colour vision requirements. Do I mention this at my medical, will this likely be an issue do you know?

Many thanks

I don't think you need to mention it tbh as if it was much of an issue like the red/green then you'd definitely be medically tested for it as its an immediate safety risk for not only line traveling but dispatch and equipment evaluation.

 

[Chrysalis]

TRP1 I didn't practice this at all but that's because I'm quite confident with recall. On the day you're played an Audio of the information. Ours was on a train breaking system. You're then given about 5mins(if I remember correctly) to make notes and read over the information yourself before all the notes are taken.

Personally my strategy was to read over and remember specfic context. For example the colour of the emergency brake button which was a red circle. What the braking system is for? Logically to stop the wheels running. Some of the multi choice answers were quite common sense if you were really stuck but I found all 18 fine memory wise.

I'd not stress tbh. Friends of mine all recommended to Practice by using a random article from a newspaper everyday. Get someone to make 18 questions from that article on paper that you can't initially see. Then they should read the paragraph to you or play it via chatgpt/ text to speech. After that give you 5mins to read and make notes on the article. Then show you the questions for the first time of which you have 7mins to answer all 18, timed.

The text did take about an a4 sheet. Wasn't too dense from my memory and the questions were quite easy if text was read well. If you're practicing then you'd want to set yourself at slightly a higher level so imo practice with newspaper articles.

Tea-Occ you do not go from left to right like group bourdon on the phone book bit. This will slow you down dramatically and actually you're told by the examiners to go column to column aka from up to down then move to next column and repeat.


I don't think you need to mention it tbh as if it was much of an issue like the red/green then you'd definitely be medically tested for it as its an immediate safety risk for not only line traveling but dispatch and equipment evaluation.

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it. I don't know where I saw that you get 3 minutes for the real test, but it's a relief to read that you get 5, as well as having someone read it to you before hand. I read that someone recommended that you ignore the audio of someone reading the text, and instead use this time to read it yourself. Are you allowed to do that? Would that mean you can get more than five minutes to read the text yourself? The problem I have with note taking (in addition to being too slow and handwriting that's difficult to read when I rush) is that I sort of feel like a lot of what's in the text may be important, maybe something to practice. WHen you say that newspaper articles are better for practice than other material, is this because of their lenght (on average) or because the content is more complex than e.g. technical manuals? I actually find the sections from the rule book I found online incredible dense when it comes to details and full of abbreviations, so expect I'd find newspaper articles easier. In any case, I feel better now so thank you.

 

[Samzino]

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it. I don't know where I saw that you get 3 minutes for the real test, but it's a relief to read that you get 5, as well as having someone read it to you before hand. I read that someone recommended that you ignore the audio of someone reading the text, and instead use this time to read it yourself. Are you allowed to do that? Would that mean you can get more than five minutes to read the text yourself? The problem I have with note taking (in addition to being too slow and handwriting that's difficult to read when I rush) is that I sort of feel like a lot of what's in the text may be important, maybe something to practice. WHen you say that newspaper articles are better for practice than other material, is this because of their lenght (on average) or because the content is more complex than e.g. technical manuals? I actually find the sections from the rule book I found online incredible dense when it comes to details and full of abbreviations, so expect I'd find newspaper articles easier. In any case, I feel better now so thank you.

No worries. To answer some questions: Newspapers because the randomness and density isn't always fixed so you get a proper testing. You won't be able to ignore the audio as its played out to everyone using a speaker for x amount of time before you're given time to read over and make notes by yourself, at least that's how it worked on my Stage 1 testing day. I personally didn't take much notes, only jotted down key info like numerical values of the brake air pressure values, colours and shapes of certain buttons etc.

 

[Chrysalis]

No worries. To answer some questions: Newspapers because the randomness and density isn't always fixed so you get a proper testing. You won't be able to ignore the audio as its played out to everyone using a speaker for x amount of time before you're given time to read over and make notes by yourself, at least that's how it worked on my Stage 1 testing day. I personally didn't take much notes, only jotted down key info like numerical values of the brake air pressure values, colours and shapes of certain buttons etc.

Thanks for clarifying. I know that no one knows the pass mark, but any idea how many incorrect answers you can have for TRP1? Most I've seen from people who have passed is like 2 or 3 that they were unsure of. Any idea about the TEA OCC? When I practice with my homemade tests I never get anything wrong when circling symbols, but very occassionally I get one or two of the beeps wrong.

 

[Samzino]

Thanks for clarifying. I know that no one knows the pass mark, but any idea how many incorrect answers you can have for TRP1? Most I've seen from people who have passed is like 2 or 3 that they were unsure of. Any idea about the TEA OCC? When I practice with my homemade tests I never get anything wrong when circling symbols, but very occassionally I get one or two of the beeps wrong.

On the day I was extremely confident with trp1 and sure all 18 answers were correct. Had time to even go over it. No clue on how many incorrect answers you can have but If I remember correctly it is one of those tests that you're not negatively marked down for wrong answers. Its more about how many you get right, pass mark ofc no one is aware of, you can average out from searching the various posts of those stating what they roughly believe they passed with.

Tea Occ on the day its really how you perform, the only tip as others mention is that the phonebook parts are all showing the service initially mentioned aka Tailor, Hospital, Plumber etc the whole sheet will just be one of those and thus you're only expected to circle twin symbols aka OO XX ££ etc and ignore the likes of XO O£ X£ etc

 

[ComUtoR]

I have passed all assessments, just waiting on the medical. I pass the ishihara with no issues since it tests for red/green.

It's red/green that is the restriction so you should be fine.

Anyone asking for other tests should be very careful with what they wish for. All of a sudden; blue/yellow might become a restriction.

Do I mention this at my medical, will this likely be an issue do you know?

I doubt they will ask but always declare when asked. Even then, it's not a requirement that I'm aware of.

 

[DomDoeslife]

Hi All, I've recently applied for a customer service apprentice role with GWR and have been offered to attend an in-person assessment at their Milford House site in Swindon.
The start and end times work out to being there for 2 and a half hours, where I'll be given "a range of tests designed to give us a better idea of my abilities" as well as prepare a "presentation" on my skills & qualities that would make me an ideal candidate for their apprenticeship programme and what I hope to gain/learn from it, the presentation is to last no more than 5 minutes.

Does anyone have more of an insight into what I can expect or any advice as to how to conduct the presentation and assessments? I have no idea what format would be appropriate for the presentation or what they would expect.
Thank you all!

 

[TrainKing]

Hi all, I have got my assessment day 1 for Arrival rail London coming up soon.
I will be sitting;
Group Bourdon test
Tea-Occ test
M7-SJT (which I hate )
DFFT test.
Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience doing these test with Arriva or at an advanced level like they require
Many thanks in advance

 

[denver2008]

I have a medical next week at;

Cassidy House,
City Road,
Chester
CH1 3NS

I’ve had a look on google maps but still unsure where the building is. Does anyone know exactly where the building is?

 

[stanley99]

Hello, I'm new here. Have recently passed the paper sift and interview for Northern trainee driver role. Now must prepare for the assessment centre later this month. I'm not sure what to expect and know there have been many previous topics on here, but also appreciate processes can change and vary between TOCs.
So I am aware that I will need to complete the psychometric tests, but will I also have to do SJT and MMI. It feels I already completed some sort of MMI in the interview stage as the questions were all 'give an example of...'. Any advice would be great!

 

[GPR]

You’ve had the DMI, an interview with the driver managers who have asked you motivation for the role, and why do you know about Northern and a few competency based questions with regards to communication, conflict with colleagues, customer services, your behaviours as a person in work, amongst more.

The MMI will be with one of the OPC staff at the end of all the assessment tests, the end boss if you pass the previous tests.
You’ll be given a sheet of paper with a few questions and you have to answer them, IIRC you get 20 minutes.
You then go into a room and a 1-2-1 with the OPC staff member and I felt you get psychologically evaluated. Your answers probed into more than the DMI. You’re at ease throughout it all and aslong as you don’t bull**** your answers on the sheet of paper and you communicate well then the whole thing is enjoyable I felt.

Good luck with it all.

 

[stanley99]

You’ve had the DMI, an interview with the driver managers who have asked you motivation for the role, and why do you know about Northern and a few competency based questions with regards to communication, conflict with colleagues, customer services, your behaviours as a person in work, amongst more.

The MMI will be with one of the OPC staff at the end of all the assessment tests, the end boss if you pass the previous tests.
You’ll be given a sheet of paper with a few questions and you have to answer them, IIRC you get 20 minutes.
You then go into a room and a 1-2-1 with the OPC staff member and I felt you get psychologically evaluated. Your answers probed into more than the DMI. You’re at ease throughout it all and aslong as you don’t bull**** your answers on the sheet of paper and you communicate well then the whole thing is enjoyable I felt.

Good luck with it all.

Thanks so much for that clarity! Fingers crossed for the day itself! All the best

 

[gsulli]

Hi All, I've recently applied for a customer service apprentice role with GWR and have been offered to attend an in-person assessment at their Milford House site in Swindon.
The start and end times work out to being there for 2 and a half hours, where I'll be given "a range of tests designed to give us a better idea of my abilities" as well as prepare a "presentation" on my skills & qualities that would make me an ideal candidate for their apprenticeship programme and what I hope to gain/learn from it, the presentation is to last no more than 5 minutes.

Does anyone have more of an insight into what I can expect or any advice as to how to conduct the presentation and assessments? I have no idea what format would be appropriate for the presentation or what they would expect.
Thank you all!

I have also been invited for an assessment day for the customer serivce apprenticeship (for the 15th January)
For my presentation, I have done 7 or 8 quick powerpoint slides, but I can't figure out how I will be able to present it electronically so I am getting my Mum to print it out.


Good luck with the assessment day!

 

[SiTheTrainGuy]

You’ve had the DMI, an interview with the driver managers who have asked you motivation for the role, and why do you know about Northern and a few competency based questions with regards to communication, conflict with colleagues, customer services, your behaviours as a person in work, amongst more.

The MMI will be with one of the OPC staff at the end of all the assessment tests, the end boss if you pass the previous tests.
You’ll be given a sheet of paper with a few questions and you have to answer them, IIRC you get 20 minutes.
You then go into a room and a 1-2-1 with the OPC staff member and I felt you get psychologically evaluated. Your answers probed into more than the DMI. You’re at ease throughout it all and aslong as you don’t bull**** your answers on the sheet of paper and you communicate well then the whole thing is enjoyable I felt.

Good luck with it all.

Love the ‘last boss’ metaphor. That’s exactly what it is

I really enjoyed the whole day. Admittedly I was pretty nervous when arriving and in the weeks leading up to it, but the assessors on the day were lovely and very encouraging.

I was there on my own, not sure if that made it easier or not?

 

[Greaseball3220]

Sat stage 1 in 2014, got a letter through the post saying it was an OPC level pass but not an enhanced TOC pass as required.

Another TOC accepted the OPC pass but I failed their Stage 2 in 2015.

Are both 'lives' gone? Or are these assessments null and void given the 9 to 10 years that have elapsed, for instance back to square one to resit them.

 

[Samzino]

Sat stage 1 in 2014, got a letter through the post saying it was an OPC level pass but not an enhanced TOC pass as required.

Another TOC accepted the OPC pass but I failed their Stage 2 in 2015.

Are both 'lives' gone? Or are these assessments null and void given the 9 to 10 years that have elapsed, for instance back to square one to resit them.

I believe the assements changed around 2015 which woukd have technically reset a lost life. Do you remember what tests you did in stage 1? Regardless if you failed an enhanced stage and then failed again computer which is usually graded as standard(not enhanced) then you'd have 1 more national standard life and no more enhanced lives. But if you sat the tests when the Dover test(reaction blue yellow pedals test) and written communication test were still in use then that live should have been reset.

 

[Greaseball3220]

I believe the assements changed around 2015 which woukd have technically reset a lost life. Do you remember what tests you did in stage 1? Regardless if you failed an enhanced stage and then failed again computer which is usually graded as standard(not enhanced) then you'd have 1 more national standard life and no more enhanced lives. But if you sat the tests when the Dover test(reaction blue yellow pedals test) and written communication test were still in use then that live should have been reset.

These ones, thanks for your reply, didn't sit the Dover and written communication tests.

• Group Bourdon tool
• TEA-OCC (Test of Everyday Attention)
• Trainability for Rules and Procedures test

 

[Samzino]

These ones, thanks for your reply, didn't sit the Dover and written communication tests.

• Group Bourdon tool
• TEA-OCC (Test of Everyday Attention)
• Trainability for Rules and Procedures test

These tests indeed would form part of the new assessment period at the time. So I'd say you've got 1 more life but with only national standard tocs. Give OPC a ring however as they'll be best placed to advise.

 

[stanley99]

I am a type 2 Diabetic and insulin dependant. I have been for 20+ years and my condition is completely managed and causes no issues. Other than this I am very fit, active and healthy with no other issues whatsoever.
I’m wondering if anyone can tell me if I am likely to pass medical and if this would be an issue? Guidelines are very dated and forums unclear as some say yes and others say automatic fail.