At what point does lineside vegetation become an issue?

[Last Hurrah]

At what point does overgrown vegetation become an issue ?

In TfW areas where electrification masts have gone up, it’s noticeable vegetation was cut back drastically, some distance from the trackside

Conversely, vegetation in non masted areas seems to be flourishing in quite a number of places

 

[John Webb]

The main problem with overgrown vegetation is the loss of sight-lines (a) for the driver for signals and crossings (b) for the users of such crossings, particularly foot-crossings and user-worked level crossings. In some places special sighting boards have been erected so that drivers and crossing users can see if growing vegetaton is reaching a potentially dangerous level.
I also wonder with present heatwaves (but without steam trains) to what extent excessive vegetation can be a fire hazard....

 

[zwk500]

A big constraint is simply the number of people available to take a chainsaw or hedgetrimmer to the lineside. NR has 10,000 route miles to maintain, and there are only so many people NR can pay at once (especially as you can't just phone round the local landscape gardeners when the job needs people competent to work lineside).

 

[randyrippley]

A big constraint is simply the number of people available to take a chainsaw or hedgetrimmer to the lineside. NR has 10,000 route miles to maintain, and there are only so many people NR can pay at once (especially as you can't just phone round the local landscape gardeners when the job needs people competent to work lineside).

Surely a lot of it could be done with a road/rail tractor or similar with a long-reach flail? Or even a shunter pushing a wagon with a flail attached

 

[zwk500]

Surely a lot of it could be done with a road/rail tractor or similar with a long-reach flail? Or even a shunter pushing a wagon with a flail attached

AIUI flailing is used cautiously because it tends to be indiscriminate about what it cuts. Rather frustrating if the flail goes through a signal cable, rather dangerous if it gets a power cable. Flails also have a tendency to chuck stuff a long distance and the vegetation budget doesn't stretch to repairing everybody's back windors or conservatories.
There aren't any shunters left idle really any more - the ones that are about are in use by their depots and yards enough that you can't steal it for a day like you used to be able to.
A Road/Rail Vehicle can be used, and is when suitable, but their reach is limited and if you're felling larger stuff it needs to be kept clear of the line, something an RRV is inherently not good at. With ecological regulations as they are, and the general trend towards only working on closed lines, the RRV tends to be used to transport the gang to site, with some wagons in tow. They then can get on quickly with the job of strimming, trimming and sawing anything back/down that needs it and process the waste as required, with anything that needs to be removed going in the wagons, logs being sawn up at stacked in piles while other bits are mulched/chipped and spread out of the creepy-crawlies.

 

[Annetts key]

If I could have a pint for every signalling cable cut “accidentally” by the railway itself, including cables that had been flailed, I would be a drunk happily worker….

Network Rail does know about the problem. But despite this every year hundreds of signals get reported by drivers due to vegetation reducing the sighting distance.

Network Rail has it’s own staff (unfortunately nowhere near enough) plus they use contract companies.

 

[WatcherZero]

I am in two minds, it obviously provides a haven for nature but it seems to be becoming more and more of a problem, lots of large and well established buddleia bushes being allowed to grow out of structures, even in public easily accessible locations that is just storing up problems for the future. You look at those photos from the days of steam with the embankments completely clear of foliage and consisting of mown grass and trees all cut back a reasonable distance from the track and know they probably didnt suffer 5% of the leaf fall cost and disruption.

 

[alxndr]

The other issue that hasn't been mentioned yet is excessive vegetation restricting safe walking routes and access to equipment.

There have been times that I've been sent out to maintain something which I'd been able to access without a line blockage for years only to find that the vegetation has grown up so much that it's no longer possible to walk down the cess safely, even with a pair of shears. Or where equipment has vanished into the bushes and a simple job turns into first having to find the dis box, and then try and get to it, despite knowing it must only be a couple of meters away. The worst example I've come across was a location case which people had begun to assume had been recovered during resignalling as they'd repeatedly not been able to find it. One day I happened to walk down a footpath that followed the fence line and discovered that it was indeed still there, but completely hidden from the track by bushes.

 

[Annetts key]

The issue of the cess and walking routes being overgrown has been repeatedly raised by the RMT at various levels over the last ten plus years.

And yes, we have pointed out that as a result, we need lineblocks.

Similarly, we have signals, point machines, location cupboards, terminal boxes (dis boxes), axle counter electronic junction boxes (EAK) all disappearing under or behind vegetation.

 

[Topological]

At what point does overgrown vegetation become an issue ?

In TfW areas where electrification masts have gone up, it’s noticeable vegetation was cut back drastically, some distance from the trackside

Conversely, vegetation in non masted areas seems to be flourishing in quite a number of places

Noting your location as Canton, there is one very close. Whenever the train to Swansea is sent through Ninian Park the side of the train is always hit by a big bush. Even though the chord to get back onto the Swansea line is quite well used by many standards, the vegetation does not naturally die back.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

The train is usually the vegetation cutter........ as you curve into Llandudno junction from Deganwy direction the trains always hit branches over hanging during autumn and winter, and the Conwy valley has more vegetation between the tracks than to the sides. But on all these lines the slow speeds don't make it an issue. Although it could be,

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The train is usually the vegetation cutter........ as you curve into Llandudno junction from Deganwy direction the trains always hit branches over hanging during autumn and winter, and the Conwy valley has more vegetation between the tracks than to the sides. But on all these lines the slow speeds don't make it an issue. Although it could be,

Scottish Highlands must be too surely?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Scottish Highlands must be too surely?

Can only speak on what I know... would love to smash some vegetation in the Highlands

 

[Western 52]

The weeds seem worse this year than ever- do weedkiller trains still operate? They can't be very frequent if they do.

Yesterday I noticed the mess of weeds and mature bushes which have infested the tracks to the west of Cardiff Central. It looks awful and will surely cause problems if they are allowed to grow more.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Loads of rain and loads of sun. Perfect for vegetation including weeds.

 

[furnessvale]

Loads of rain and loads of sun. Perfect for vegetation including weeds.

I don't suppose modern ineffective weedkillers help.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

I don't suppose modern ineffective weedkillers help.

good for the environment though....

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I don't suppose modern ineffective weedkillers help.

Not really no. The old fashioned stuff was used for a reason - they worked!

 

[Taunton]

The "need a line block" argument has become a wonderful excuse for the Can't Be Bothered lot.

Particularly notable is how major routes which were reduced years ago from two to single track then just get left for this to become a particular issue. I have commented about the Cotswold line here in the past, but only this last week on SWR from Dorchester towards Moreton and Poole the Class 444 was getting smashed from both sides at once on the single line.

 

[Hellzapoppin]

So how many line blocks per day do you think are necessary and achievable to tackle the problem?

 

[Taunton]

I look at it separately. The civils should have worked this one out a generation ago, when the concept of line blocks came in, and devised appropriate methods for clearing vegetation, ensuring redundant rails and offcuts are removed, and all the rest of the stuff that is found "inconvenient". They are engineers. That word derives from the Latin, ingenious. Which is someone with the capability to come up with solutions. Not whiney-whiney excuses.

 

[zwk500]

I look at it separately. The civils should have worked this one out a generation ago, when the concept of line blocks came in, and devised appropriate methods for clearing vegetation, ensuring redundant rails and offcuts are removed, and all the rest of the stuff that is found "inconvenient". They are engineers. That word derives from the Latin, ingenious. Which is someone with the capability to come up with solutions. Not whiney-whiney excuses.

The issue is not a lack of solutions, but a lack of money. Its a fairly old maxim in engineering - cost, time, scope (or quality), Pick any 2.
The engineers can come up with all the solutions they can, but if the accountants are involved their hands are somewhat tied.

 

[Hellzapoppin]

Well I'm not really convinced a lack of money is the biggest issue, I think it's more a lack of time. There just isn't enough of that to do everything. As for leaving cut off rail etc trackside then so what, in many cases it's either that or suffer possession overruns.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The issue is not a lack of solutions, but a lack of money. Its a fairly old maxim in engineering - cost, time, scope (or quality), Pick any 2.
The engineers can come up with all the solutions they can, but if the accountants are involved their hands are somewhat tied.

Treasury says no.

 

[D6130]

At what point does overgrown vegetation become an issue ?

IMHO....about 30 years ago!

 

[66701GBRF]

Well I'm not really convinced a lack of money is the biggest issue, I think it's more a lack of time. There just isn't enough of that to do everything. As for leaving cut off rail etc trackside then so what, in many cases it's either that or suffer possession overruns.

The amount of money you have (or dont have) directly influences how much staff and resources you can have.

 

[zwk500]

Well I'm not really convinced a lack of money is the biggest issue, I think it's more a lack of time. There just isn't enough of that to do everything. As for leaving cut off rail etc trackside then so what, in many cases it's either that or suffer possession overruns.

If you had more money, you could throw more resources at the problem, as said above, but...

Treasury says no.

Very much this.

 

[Hellzapoppin]

You still need access and that's the problem. I remember having a chat with the a PWay chap at Bristol Temple Meads and his line block to do the patrolling was 4 minutes if he was lucky.

 

[trebor79]

Surely a lot of it could be done with a road/rail tractor or similar with a long-reach flail? Or even a shunter pushing a wagon with a flail attached

Reminds me of a guy I knew many years ago who used to work for BR. He got a call from a signal post telephone one night "I've clipped the gaffer with the flail machine and he's not very well..."

 

[TheSel]

At what point does overgrown vegetation become an issue ?

When it gets in my way as a photographer!