Austria (and perhaps other European countries?) return to full lockdown

nw1

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That's quite a drop in cases over in the Netherlands. Absolutely bonkers beyond belief that they're going into a full "tough lockdown" and using Omicron as an excuse.

Certainly against the popular idea of the Netherlands being run by libertarian governments (soft drugs laws, etc). Seems pointless, and a sure way for the Prime Minister to lose the next election.
 
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greyman42

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I'm going back into London to go to more pubs today and see some friends. I do love a good pub and I'm not going to be scared off showing them some support by the potential of getting a bad cold.
Great to see that some of us are just getting on with life and not hiding behind the settee.
 

NorthKent1989

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Great to see that some of us are just getting on with life and not hiding behind the settee.

Was out in Oxford on Saturday and other than masks everyone was out and about in pubs and bars and restaurants, people are clearly done with this.
 

ExRes

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Certainly against the popular idea of the Netherlands being run by libertarian governments (soft drugs laws, etc). Seems pointless, and a sure way for the Prime Minister to lose the next election.

It makes me laugh that anyone is still using 'libertarian' as a description for any of these EU countries, personally I don't see that word and using mounted police, tear gas and water cannon against their citizens quite fit together
 

brad465

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Many European countries are now bringing more restrictions in. This is despite many of them arguably having higher compliance with mask mandates and restrictions generally, and in the case of countries like Portugal, a very high vaccination rate:


European leaders are reinstating coronavirus restrictions as the new Omicron variant continues to spread across the continent.
Germany and Portugal are among nations announcing post-Christmas curbs and greater social distancing measures.
Omicron is already the dominant strain in many European countries.
Spain has reported its highest number of daily cases since the start of the pandemic and France has warned daily cases there could soon pass 100,000.
French Health Minister Olivier Véran said the increase in daily infections in the country, currently at about 70,000, would be driven by the Omicron variant, which he said was likely to become the dominant variant by early January.

The surge in cases across Europe will push health systems towards the brink of collapse, the World Health Organization's top official in the continent has warned.
Hans Kluge said "another storm" was coming and governments should brace for significant increases in cases.
France began vaccinating children between the ages of five and 11 on Wednesday, but said that boosters were not currently being offered to 12 to 15-year-olds.
Germany announced that from 28 December limits would return that restrict private gatherings to 10 people and nightclubs would close. Football matches from that date will also be played behind closed doors.
"Coronavirus doesn't take a Christmas break," Germany's Chancellor Olaf Scholz said on Tuesday.
"We cannot - and must not - close our eyes to this next wave, which is beginning to loom over us," he added.
Meanwhile, Portugal ordered bars and nightclubs to shut from 26 December, and made working from home obligatory from that date until 9 January. Outdoor gatherings will be limited to 10 people.
Bars and restaurants in Finland will have to close at 22:00 on 24 December, as the Nordic nation sees infections at a record level. For three weeks from 28 December, restaurants will have to close at 18:00 with limited seating. Travellers coming from the EU's border-free Schengen zone will have to show a negative Covid test.
 

island

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France announced this evening that it would be removing the option to show a negative test rather than a vaccine or recovery pass to enter large events, theme parks, bars and restaurants, starting from mid-January.

It won't affect British tourists, who remain prohibited from entering.
 

philosopher

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France announced this evening that it would be removing the option to show a negative test rather than a vaccine or recovery pass to enter large events, theme parks, bars and restaurants, starting from mid-January.

It won't affect British tourists, who remain prohibited from entering.
They are also banning people from eating food on trains, which I assume is so people don’t take their masks off to eat food:
France announced a raft of Covid measures today as the country braces for a surge in cases due to the rapidly spreading Omicron variant in Europe.

Working from home is now mandatory for at least three days a week while indoor events have limits on attendance and people are banned from eating on long-distance trains.
 

Jonny

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NorthKent1989

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France announced this evening that it would be removing the option to show a negative test rather than a vaccine or recovery pass to enter large events, theme parks, bars and restaurants, starting from mid-January.

It won't affect British tourists, who remain prohibited from entering.

They are also banning people from eating food on trains, which I assume is so people don’t take their masks off to eat food:

All this to stop a virus with a 99% survival rate.....pathetic really
 

yorkie

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The virus cannot be "stopped" and the infection fatality rate is almost impossible to calculate, due to the risks being exponentially higher with age, the huge effectiveness of vaccines, and of course any comorbidities. But for the vast majority of the population the survival rate will be a huge magnitude greater than 99%. We are all going to be exposed to Sars-CoV-2 and it is only a matter of when.

Not if, but when. No ifs, no buts.
 

43066

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So if everyone in the UK caught it there would be 600,000 deaths. Happy with that?

There will be deaths whatever we do. I rather suspect 600k is a number you just plucked out of thin air?

Do you know for a *fact* the restrictions we have adopted over the past two years will result in less than 600k deaths?!

If so I’d be intrigued to see your working…
 

bramling

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I wish them well enforcing that one...

Some of this stuff really is unbelievable. It seems that *nothing* else matters apart from Covid.

It comes to something when our Peppa Pig response is actually, at this point at least, one of the more sensible.

I’d say we are actually at a rather dangerous moment in this, for two reasons. Firstly the continuing obsession with Covid to the now very considerable detriment of other health matters. Secondly that trust in scientists is bound to have diminished once all this is over. Both of these are highly undesirable outcomes.
 

Peterthegreat

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There will be deaths whatever we do. I rather suspect 600k is a number you just plucked out of thin air?

Do you know for a *fact* the restrictions we have adopted over the past two years will result in less than 600k deaths?!

If so I’d be intrigued to see your working…
There is nothing wrong with my maths - 600k is 1% of 60 million. @NorthKent1989 quoted a 99% survival rate - therefore a 1% fatality rate. I am not saying this will happen, merely an extension of the logic. In fact the survival rate is currently in excess of 99.5% (and probably more as omicron appears to be less dangerous)

And no I don't know and neither does anyone else what would have happened without restrictions. However before vaccines the survival rate was around 97% ie 3% fatality rate.
 

takno

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There is nothing wrong with my maths - 600k is 1% of 60 million. @NorthKent1989 quoted a 99% survival rate - therefore a 1% fatality rate. I am not saying this will happen, merely an extension of the logic. In fact the survival rate is currently in excess of 99.5% (and probably more as omicron appears to be less dangerous)

And no I don't know and neither does anyone else what would have happened without restrictions. However before vaccines the survival rate was around 97% ie 3% fatality rate.
97% was of cases not infections. The survival rate from infections has always likely been at or around 99% overall, and is now more like 99.8%. I don't particularly like the "disease with a 99% survival rate" line either, but it was itself in response to a fairly trite non-argument.
 

NorthKent1989

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So if everyone in the UK caught it there would be 600,000 deaths. Happy with that?

Get a grip and please move on from March 2020 and stop being spoon fed by the BBC, Sky, ITV and the newspapers, you may actually stop living in fear and being hysterical.

Covid is here forever, about time you understood that, if you're so scared of what is a minor virus then I strongly suggest you stay home and stop spouting fearful, hysterical nonsense.

People sadly die every day, its part of life.

There is nothing wrong with my maths - 600k is 1% of 60 million. @NorthKent1989 quoted a 99% survival rate - therefore a 1% fatality rate. I am not saying this will happen, merely an extension of the logic. In fact the survival rate is currently in excess of 99.5% (and probably more as omicron appears to be less dangerous)

And no I don't know and neither does anyone else what would have happened without restrictions. However before vaccines the survival rate was around 97% ie 3% fatality rate.

I think you'll find that covid has had a 99% survival rate from the beginning, however 97 or 99, that's still a high survival rate and no reason to get all fearful
 

Peterthegreat

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Get a grip and please move on from March 2020 and stop being spoon fed by the BBC, Sky, ITV and the newspapers, you may actually stop living in fear and being hysterical.

Covid is here forever, about time you understood that, if you're so scared of what is a minor virus then I strongly suggest you stay home and stop spouting fearful, hysterical nonsense.

People sadly die every day, its part of life.



I think you'll find that covid has had a 99% survival rate from the beginning, however 97 or 99, that's still a high survival rate and no reason to get all fearful
Sorry I use your figures and you tell me to get a grip. I am not living in fear nor I am I hysterical. I go out, go to the pub, visit friends, use public transport etc and do not currently support any further lockdowns. However I have calculated the risk to me (or indeed any individual) is low. Unfortunately there are a lot of people so even a low fatality rate can lead to many hundreds of thousands of deaths.
 

NorthKent1989

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Sorry I use your figures and you tell me to get a grip. I am not living in fear nor I am I hysterical. I go out, go to the pub, visit friends, use public transport etc and do not currently support any further lockdowns. However I have calculated the risk to me (or indeed any individual) is low. Unfortunately there are a lot of people so even a low fatality rate can lead to many hundreds of thousands of deaths.

Yes I am saying you should get a grip, covid does have a high survival rate and I really don't think you're helping much by spouting scare mongering possibilities, we aren't in March 2020 anymore we know more about covid and there's vaccines now for those who want it, it's really time to move on from covid
 

nw1

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I wish them well enforcing that one...

Banning eating on trains? That is too much. What if someone's diabetic and falls ill as a result?

Is drinking (tea, coffee, water etc) similarly banned?

Some French train journeys are of the order of several hours. Another reason why the French Trump needs to be dumped next year. He only got in because the only alternative was Le Pen.
 
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Yew

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Sorry I use your figures and you tell me to get a grip. I am not living in fear nor I am I hysterical. I go out, go to the pub, visit friends, use public transport etc and do not currently support any further lockdowns. However I have calculated the risk to me (or indeed any individual) is low. Unfortunately there are a lot of people so even a low fatality rate can lead to many hundreds of thousands of deaths.
We can hardly call a statement made for brevity "figures".

Banning eating on trains? That is too much. What if someone's diabetic and falls ill as a result?

Is drinking (tea, coffee, water etc) similarly banned?

Some French train journeys are of the order of several hours. Another reason why the French Trump needs to be dumped next year. He only got in because the only alternative was Le Pen.
"Liberté, liberté cherie, combats avec tes défenseurs"
 

philosopher

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Banning eating on trains? That is too much. What if someone's diabetic and falls ill as a result?

Is drinking (tea, coffee, water etc) similarly banned?

Some French train journeys are of the order of several hours. Another reason why the French Trump needs to be dumped next year. He only got in because the only alternative was Le Pen.
From what have read elsewhere the ban includes drinks as well as food and extends to cinemas and sports facilities.

The consumption of food and drinks is to be banned in cinemas, sports facilities and on public transport, such as planes and TGV travel. This is so masks remain in place during the journey.
Banning drinks in sports facilities and to a lesser extent long distance trains to me sounds down right dangerous. There is probably a much higher risk of people injuring themselves fainting in a gym due to being unable to drink water than from Covid.
 

Huntergreed

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I’m glad I don’t live in France, that article looks horrific!

Masks mandatory outdoors in town centre, and close contact (household) isolation is currently 17 days? They’ve well and truly lost it!
 

Yew

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I’m glad I don’t live in France, that article looks horrific!

Masks mandatory outdoors in town centre, and close contact (household) isolation is currently 17 days? They’ve well and truly lost it!
All these places the dirty snotrags are required, and they still have tonnes of cases...
 

Jonny

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I’m glad I don’t live in France, that article looks horrific!

Masks mandatory outdoors in town centre, and close contact (household) isolation is currently 17 days? They’ve well and truly lost it!
I would like to think that there is some pushback taking place.

All these places the dirty snotrags are required, and they still have tonnes of cases...
The phrase "logistically unenforceable" springs to mind. You can only really run spot checks, but it is something that needs continuous compliance to work. Also, we had the second and third waves with a requirement in place. The delta variant got established with a requirement in place, and omicron is doing the same thing under the same circumstances.
 

brad465

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I’d say we are actually at a rather dangerous moment in this, for two reasons. Firstly the continuing obsession with Covid to the now very considerable detriment of other health matters. Secondly that trust in scientists is bound to have diminished once all this is over. Both of these are highly undesirable outcomes.
There is a third one I can think of: populists are taking advantage to speak for all those against restrictions, mandatory vaccines, etc., especially in Austria, where the far-right Freedom Party are the only opposition to them. Eventually, if not already, they'll be able to claim victory/vindication and potentially garner more support in pursuit of power, which history shows doesn't end well.
 

nw1

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From what have read elsewhere the ban includes drinks as well as food and extends to cinemas and sports facilities.
That is appalling. If someone falls seriously ill from lack of water when travelling on a train, I hope action is taken against the Macron government.
 
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greyman42

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France announced this evening that it would be removing the option to show a negative test rather than a vaccine or recovery pass to enter large events, theme parks, bars and restaurants, starting from mid-January.

It won't affect British tourists, who remain prohibited from entering.
Why the sudden wall to wall coverage from the British media about what is happening in France?
 

Yew

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Why the sudden wall to wall coverage from the British media about what is happening in France?
The newspapers love the useless snotrags, they've consistently been screaming for the dirty things to be strapped to our faces at all times.
 

3rd rail land

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Why the sudden wall to wall coverage from the British media about what is happening in France?
The media is only interested in restrictions being put in place and since Boris isn't increasing the restrictions in England they are turning to other countries to get their fix, France in this instance. The media seem to think everyone is of the same viewpoint and will therefore be able to sell more newspapers and get more views for their news shows if they endlessly cover stories about increased restrictions.
 

westv

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The media is only interested in restrictions being put in place and since Boris isn't increasing the restrictions in England they are turning to other countries to get their fix, France in this instance. The media seem to think everyone is of the same viewpoint and will therefore be able to sell more newspapers and get more views for their news shows if they endlessly cover stories about increased restrictions.
It's a pity that people often only seem interested in information that reinforces their own viewpoint rather than seeking anything that might contradict it.
 

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