Autumn refresh for GWR Class 165/166 Turbos

[YSTrains]

Will the FGW liveried 166 get an internal refurbishment too?

 

[Trainfan061193]

Will the FGW liveried 166 get an internal refurbishment too?

Yes they will.

 

[JonathanH]

Were they built before the 158’s? The 158 is soooo much better.

No, Turbos were built later than most of 158s. The 165s were introduced into service from April 1992 on Thames workings. 166s following the next year. 158s were introduced from 1990.

 

[supervc-10]

I was on a Turbo from Bath to Salisbury yesterday. Not sure if it was a 165 or 166 (didn't look) but got in the declassified first class. I've never been in a more depressing, dirty, collapsing train. And I was on my way back from New York, where we'd ridden the subway extensively, somewhere not known for being clean.

The unit was still in FGW blue, the interior was filthy, the leather on the armrests was in tatters, there was cabling for the reading lights hanging out the bottom of the seats. I suppose I should be thankful that all the bays still had their tables...

Chiltern have shown that you can have a really decent train in the 165s. GWR, not so much. I get that the Cardiff-Portsmouth route needs a lot of capacity at times, and why therefore the Turbos are used, but full refit into something closer to Chiltern's designs is needed. BADLY. The interior setup of Northern's 195/331s might also be a good option, although I understand that there are some header tanks in the cabin which make 2x2 difficult in the centre sections.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I was on a Turbo from Bath to Salisbury yesterday. Not sure if it was a 165 or 166 (didn't look) but got in the declassified first class. I've never been in a more depressing, dirty, collapsing train. And I was on my way back from New York, where we'd ridden the subway extensively, somewhere not known for being clean.

The unit was still in FGW blue, the interior was filthy, the leather on the armrests was in tatters, there was cabling for the reading lights hanging out the bottom of the seats. I suppose I should be thankful that all the bays still had their tables...

Chiltern have shown that you can have a really decent train in the 165s. GWR, not so much. I get that the Cardiff-Portsmouth route needs a lot of capacity at times, and why therefore the Turbos are used, but full refit into something closer to Chiltern's designs is needed. BADLY. The interior setup of Northern's 195/331s might also be a good option, although I understand that there are some header tanks in the cabin which make 2x2 difficult in the centre sections.

The GW turbos have had a much tougher life than the Chiltern ones with barely any interior refurbs (unlike Chiltern), that however is finally now in hand.

 

[YSTrains]

Yes they will.

So strange. Exterior green and interior fgw. Now we are gonna have 166s with Exterior fgw livery and green interior.

 

[Parallel]

I was on a Turbo from Bath to Salisbury yesterday. Not sure if it was a 165 or 166 (didn't look) but got in the declassified first class. I've never been in a more depressing, dirty, collapsing train. And I was on my way back from New York, where we'd ridden the subway extensively, somewhere not known for being clean.

The unit was still in FGW blue, the interior was filthy, the leather on the armrests was in tatters, there was cabling for the reading lights hanging out the bottom of the seats. I suppose I should be thankful that all the bays still had their tables...

Chiltern have shown that you can have a really decent train in the 165s. GWR, not so much. I get that the Cardiff-Portsmouth route needs a lot of capacity at times, and why therefore the Turbos are used, but full refit into something closer to Chiltern's designs is needed. BADLY. The interior setup of Northern's 195/331s might also be a good option, although I understand that there are some header tanks in the cabin which make 2x2 difficult in the centre sections.

This would’ve been a 166 - The 165s in the Bristol area no longer have an ex-first class section.

Lucky you weren’t in the Ex-first class section of the refreshed 166… The seat covers are actually disgusting!

3 car 166s also not really adequate for many of the services on that route and they are extremely tatty but at least they’ll be refurbished soon. I used one on Tuesday, was very overcrowded, the air conditioning had failed and it sounded like there was a problem with one of the engines which was giving the train very slow acceleration from stations. At least they replaced the carpets on the units, even if it does now clash!

 

[Western Sunset]

The Cardiff - Portsmouth route is very busy as noted above. As well as serving seven cities (many being tourist centres in their own right), there are well over ten universities, so student flows are high too.

 

[cactustwirly]

The GW turbos have had a much tougher life than the Chiltern ones with barely any interior refurbs (unlike Chiltern), that however is finally now in hand.

Worth noting that the condition of the interior has deteriorated since they moved from Reading.

St Philips marsh appear to be the Newton Heath of GWR

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Worth noting that the condition of the interior has deteriorated since they moved from Reading.

St Philips marsh appear to be the Newton Heath of GWR

At Reading the majority of class 166s returned home each night, with a few outstabled at Worcester and Oxford.

With the 166s at SPM around 50% of the units outstable at either Westbury, Gloucester, Fratton, Weymouth or Exeter.

A fleet that sees its Home Depot often is generally proven to be more reliable and in better condition. Take on LTV when 166s worked there a number went on Reading depot during the day, at SPM there is one turn daytime that visits the depot as the work on West is far less ‘peaky’

 

[supervc-10]

This would’ve been a 166 - The 165s in the Bristol area no longer have an ex-first class section.

Lucky you weren’t in the Ex-first class section of the refreshed 166… The seat covers are actually disgusting!

3 car 166s also not really adequate for many of the services on that route and they are extremely tatty but at least they’ll be refurbished soon. I used one on Tuesday, was very overcrowded, the air conditioning had failed and it sounded like there was a problem with one of the engines which was giving the train very slow acceleration from stations. At least they replaced the carpets on the units, even if it does now clash!

I'm sure you're right! It was a single 3-car unit but it wasn't peak time so was fine. I'm sure it would have got quite nasty though at rush hour.

Either way though- the seat covers were pretty grim. Lovely patch of ingrained dandruff on each headrest, and a tear in the seat base opposite me.

 

[Doomotron]

So strange. Exterior green and interior fgw. Now we are gonna have 166s with Exterior fgw livery and green interior.

Not rare... South Western Railway refurbished most of their trains before repainting a single one. Southeastern refreshed their fleet of Electrostars while they still had the Connex livery outside, with only a handful in the then-standard SE livery. The full refurbishment only came a few years later.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

This would’ve been a 166 - The 165s in the Bristol area no longer have an ex-first class section

The 165 3-cars which operate in the Bristol area still have a first class section as these units are shared with Reading and first class is provided on the North Downs.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The 165 3-cars which operate in the Bristol area still have a first class section as these units are shared with Reading and first class is provided on the North Downs.

He did, however, say that there were tables still fitted, and the tables in the 3-165s have been removed, and were only tiny cup holder size ones anyway

 

[Trainfan061193]

So strange. Exterior green and interior fgw. Now we are gonna have 166s with Exterior fgw livery and green interior.

The FGW liveried 166s will be repainted as well.

 

[fgwrich]

To be fair, the tables (and most of the interior condition) in the 166s were awful before they left Reading. Sending them to SPM has made them significantly worse (though I suspect this is the perils of overworking the fleet at a depot not used to them).

 

[387star]

They have now been on the Portsmouth to Cardiff route for nearly FOUR years with no refresh as yet other than a carpet change

One barely made 50mph not long back. They are worn out trains and the air con is useless. Also note the headache inducing whine....

377s are lovely in comparison cool quiet trains southern rail really well run these days!

 

[thelongestroad]

Bet the 166s absolutely obliterate the service quality audit results.

Such a shame.

 

[supervc-10]

He did, however, say that there were tables still fitted, and the tables in the 3-165s have been removed, and were only tiny cup holder size ones anyway

Yes these were full size tables, so must have been a 166. Long time since I was living in the Windsor area so not too familiar with the Turbos any more!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Any ideas when 165136/137 are off?

 

[FGW_DID]

Any ideas when 165136/137 are off?

165136 next up towards the end of this month. About 2 week s later 137 will go. Towards the end of August should see the first of the 3 car 165s to head off for some TLC.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

165136 next up towards the end of this month. About 2 week s later 137 will go. Towards the end of August should see the first of the 3 car 165s to head off for some TLC.

Cheers.
I’m so intrigued to see what they do with the first class end. Part of me thinks they’ll get rid of it, which would be a silly idea unless 3-165 and 166 will have separate diagrams while all in the west, and be kept off the Portsmouths and Weymouths.

 

[Towers]

Cheers.
I’m so intrigued to see what they do with the first class end. Part of me thinks they’ll get rid of it, which would be a silly idea unless 3-165 and 166 will have separate diagrams while all in the west, and be kept off the Portsmouths and Weymouths.

It'll be staying, I should think. There's a desire for fleet commonality, rather than differing the specs. Just as wheelchair ramps appeared on RDG based 2 car and, recently, 3 car sets, despite this only being required for 'West' use as LTV land has always used station ramps.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Cheers.
I’m so intrigued to see what they do with the first class end. Part of me thinks they’ll get rid of it, which would be a silly idea unless 3-165 and 166 will have separate diagrams while all in the west, and be kept off the Portsmouths and Weymouths.

The first class end isn’t per say needed on either of the routes you mention as first class isn’t offered on those and isn’t planned to be. However Reading 3 car turbos do require first class for the North Downs where it is if free.

The biggest problem with the 3 car 165s at Bristol is the lack of bike space compared to 165 2 cars and 166s

 

[Mike Machin]

The class 165/166 is why I and everyone else I know in the business community have stopped using the train between Southampton/Romsey and Bristol.
There is absolutely no way we will pay gigantic amounts of money to sit and cook in filthy, stinking, howling, squalid run-down clapped-out threadbare trains when a near silent non-polluting electric car can whisk us to our destination in air-conditioned silence door to door running on renewable energy.
We have also stopped using Cross Country to Birmingham for the same reasons.
The class 165s and 166s are only suitable for recycling and nobody should be expected to endure such conditions on lengthy cross-country journeys in the 21st Century. Even when refurbished they are a disgrace and it is insulting to offer such a ’service’ to the public.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The class 165/166 is why I and everyone else I know in the business community have stopped using the train between Southampton/Romsey and Bristol.
There is absolutely no way we will pay gigantic amounts of money to sit and cook in filthy, stinking, howling, squalid run-down clapped-out threadbare trains when a near silent non-polluting electric car can whisk us to our destination in air-conditioned silence door to door running on renewable energy.
We have also stopped using Cross Country to Birmingham for the same reasons.
The class 165s and 166s are only suitable for recycling and nobody should be expected to endure such conditions on lengthy cross-country journeys in the 21st Century. Even when refurbished they are a disgrace and it is insulting to offer such a ’service’ to the public.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but Southampton to Bristol at just over 90 minutes is hardy a lengthy journey, in BR days first generation DMUs and DEMUs ran journeys of similar length. Agreed the Turbos need a refresh but that is in hand.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The first class end isn’t per say needed on either of the routes you mention as first class isn’t offered on those and isn’t planned to be. However Reading 3 car turbos do require first class for the North Downs where it is if free.

The biggest problem with the 3 car 165s at Bristol is the lack of bike space compared to 165 2 cars and 166s

I’m sure you must agree it’s sensible to have the ex first class sections regardless for Cardiff Portsmouth, which is 3.5 hours.

 

[Snow1964]

The class 165/166 is why I and everyone else I know in the business community have stopped using the train between Southampton/Romsey and Bristol.
There is absolutely no way we will pay gigantic amounts of money to sit and cook in filthy, stinking, howling, squalid run-down clapped-out threadbare trains when a near silent non-polluting electric car can whisk us to our destination in air-conditioned silence door to door running on renewable energy.
We have also stopped using Cross Country to Birmingham for the same reasons.
The class 165s and 166s are only suitable for recycling and nobody should be expected to endure such conditions on lengthy cross-country journeys in the 21st Century. Even when refurbished they are a disgrace and it is insulting to offer such a ’service’ to the public.

Actually it is even worse than that, about 40% of the service turns up as even older class 158s, frequently an overcrowded 2car set.

By modern standards they are very poor, noisy, and in a different league on common sections with modern stock (eg Bath-Bristol)

But you are fundamentally correct, St Phillips Marsh depot often turns them out in a condition more akin to one of the many aggregates trains on the line, dirty, dusty. The freight tracks don’t squeak or rattle as much, and are much quieter.

The 165s and 166s might (just) be suitable for some lightly used secondary line, but not busy lines like Cardiff - Portsmouth. The population served is bigger than say York- Newcastle-Edinburgh so why it has to have aging cast offs is a mystery to me.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I’m sure you must agree it’s sensible to have the ex first class sections regardless for Cardiff Portsmouth, which is 3.5 hours.

It’s sensible but not essential!

 

[Snow1964]

I’m sure you must agree it’s sensible to have the ex first class sections regardless for Cardiff Portsmouth, which is 3.5 hours.

Not essential, but when someone like Avanti considers they need a third category on trains of shorter duration like Manchester-London, not even providing two categories on a train serving multiple cities makes you wonder if GWR is missing out on premium revenue.

But GWR has two extremes of train, ones for high speed, and ones for local services, nothing in between. It has never bothered to source a 100mph bi-mode for its important long distance routes that don’t serve London, it is mix of 158, 165, 166 DMUs and castle shorted HST, all of which are 30-50 year old designs with partial modernisation, far from ideal.

The 165 and 166 refurbishment doesn’t magically make them suitable for 3.5 hour services, it just makes then less tatty but still unsuitable.