Autumn refresh for GWR Class 165/166 Turbos

[HamworthyGoods]

How many 2 cars are there at Reading for how many diagrams.

There needs to be a proper solution for the west that doesn't involve stealing units from the Thames Valley.

The 3 cars look like they're staying at Reading for the foreseeable future as the 769s are as good as dead.

The solution will either by 769s or some other cascaded Sprinters.

 

[FGW_DID]

How many 2 cars are there at Reading for how many diagrams.

165 (2): 10 units for 8 diagrams
165 (3): 14 units for 12 diagrams

 

[Snow1964]

That's not worse than 2 car 165s/158s on the Portsmouths. 150s have a half-hourly service and were often run with single units pre COVID. The 3-158s used before the Turbos on Portsmouths were notorious for their overcrowding and even that is longer than 2 car 165s/158s.

I assume when the 166s go for refurbishment there will be even more of a shortage, unless Henley remains 2 car meaning an extra 3-165 can go to cover.

And at current time, chances of getting a refurbished unit on Portsmouth services is a lottery, and because of random mix of 158, 165 and 166 units (frequently single units, even 2car units on their own) most people will remember the crowding rather than a nice train ambience.

No one can say the service and comfort has improved on every train, so the refurbishment is to some extent wasted, especially where return journey is in a train with lack of seats & tatty carpets etc.

 

[Anonymous10]

The solution will either by 769s or some other cascaded Sprinters.

soonest that could happen is next year with the tfw fleet becoming available

 

[cactustwirly]

soonest that could happen is next year with the tfw fleet becoming available

That isn't the issue, GWR have plenty of 769s. Just no one to drive them...

 

[Anonymous10]

That isn't the issue, GWR have plenty of 769s. Just no one to drive them...

my comment was in reply to people saying about taking more sprinters the soonest any 15x stock will be available will be the current tfw fleet

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

soonest that could happen is next year with the tfw fleet becoming available

If the drivers moan about now air conditioning in the cabs on the GWR ones, they’ll do the same on the TfW ones. That’s one of the big issues if I’ve understood it correctly.

 

[GWVillager]

And at current time, chances of getting a refurbished unit on Portsmouth services is a lottery, and because of random mix of 158, 165 and 166 units (frequently single units, even 2car units on their own) most people will remember the crowding rather than a nice train ambience.

No one can say the service and comfort has improved on every train, so the refurbishment is to some extent wasted, especially where return journey is in a train with lack of seats & tatty carpets etc.

Indeed. I went on holiday using this line a few weeks ago (in that terrible second heatwave) and though the journey down on a 4 coach 158 was pleasant and relaxing, the return on a 166+165 was so diabolically appalling that I've learnt to avoid the route at all costs. How on earth anyone can be convinced that Turbos (refreshed or not) on Portsmouth to Cardiff is a good idea I really don't know, if only the DfT hadn't blocked that 2+2 idea...

The 165 was refreshed and as I'm sure many others here have commented, it made virtually no difference whether the rammed, swealtering, uncomfortable train had blue seats or grey. Again, that 2+2 and tables arrangement wouldn't go amiss if the trains were a bit longer.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Indeed. I went on holiday using this line a few weeks ago (in that terrible second heatwave) and though the journey down on a 4 coach 158 was pleasant and relaxing, the return on a 166+165 was so diabolically appalling that I've learnt to avoid the route at all costs. How on earth anyone can be convinced that Turbos (refreshed or not) on Portsmouth to Cardiff is a good idea I really don't know, if only the DfT hadn't blocked that 2+2 idea...

The 165 was refreshed and as I'm sure many others here have commented, it made virtually no difference whether the rammed, swealtering, uncomfortable train had blue seats or grey. Again, that 2+2 and tables arrangement wouldn't go amiss if the trains were a bit longer.

Cardiff to Portsmouth is a lovely journey in the 166 ex First Class area. I do it once month in its entirety and always aim for a 166.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

And run two cars to St Ives instead of four as part of the Summer timetable.

Four cars on the St Ives line has occurred for years now. It is the main artery into St Ives in the summer.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Four cars on the St Ives line has occurred for years now. It is the main artery into St Ives in the summer.

I know. The OP asked what had happened since May. Isn’t it only two in the winter?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I know. The OP asked what had happened since May. Isn’t it only two in the winter?

It’s 2 cars November to March, 4 cars from mid-March.

 

[DelW]

The 165 was refreshed and as I'm sure many others here have commented, it made virtually no difference whether the rammed, swealtering, uncomfortable train had blue seats or grey. Again, that 2+2 and tables arrangement wouldn't go amiss if the trains were a bit longer.

Somewhat surprising that the 165 was sweltering - the ones on the North Downs seem to have been coping well with the high temperatures in recent weeks whenever I've been on one. Admittedly those haven't been rammed, but even when pretty busy they've been pleasantly cool.

 

[FGW_DID]

These systems aren’t a climate control that you can set a required temperature like some people (including some train crew) seem to think, they are literally just air cooling. After talking to one of the Techs, i seem to recall him saying that the acceptable range of the kit is dropping the temperature by something like 7-10 degrees.

Fine if it’s a normal, warm day, but If you have temperatures like we did recently plus a train crammed with hot sweaty people all radiating heat as well, you are still going to end up in the mid - high thirties!

 

[Dai Corner]

These systems aren’t a climate control that you can set a required temperature like some people (including some train crew) seem to think, they are literally just air cooling. After talking to one of the Techs, i seem to recall him saying that the acceptable range of the kit is dropping the temperature by something like 7-10 degrees.

Fine if it’s a normal, warm day, but If you have temperatures like we did recently plus a train crammed with hot sweaty people all radiating heat as well, you are still going to end up in the mid - high thirties!

Yes. Remember a person gives out about 100W of heat. 70 in one coach is like having four large electric fires on. That's before the greenhouse effect of the sun shining through the windows

 

[387star]

Do Gatwick to Reading 165s offer first class? Sitting on a three car right now and I assume not as no markings

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Do Gatwick to Reading 165s offer first class? Sitting on a three car right now and I assume not as no markings

They do, it’s just since 165s have started running some west services the marking has become very hit and miss. The vestibule door and exterior door has first class markings.

 

[fgwrich]

They do, it’s just since 165s have started running some west services the marking has become very hit and miss. The vestibule door and exterior door has first class markings.

That’s if the Vestibule door is working though and not just locked / left taped in the open position. At least the Antimacassers do indicate that it is first class, even if the moquette is the same.

 

[jackot]

I’m sure this has been asked before, but will the refurbished 3 cars keep first class? I know they were supposed to ditch it, but with the 769s in the state that they are in, will this change?

 

[GWVillager]

I’m sure this has been asked before, but will the refurbished 3 cars keep first class? I know they were supposed to ditch it, but with the 769s in the state that they are in, will this change?

As far as I'm aware, 165s will lose it regardless, but the 166s will keep it. Feel free to correct me.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

As far as I'm aware, 165s will lose it regardless, but the 166s will keep it. Feel free to correct me.

165s are keeping it for now as they still need it for the North Downs.

 

[REVUpminster]

As far as I'm aware, 165s will lose it regardless, but the 166s will keep it. Feel free to correct me.

If that's right it might support something I heard that the 3 car 165's will end up at Exeter and the 166s in Bristol.

 

[cactustwirly]

If that's right it might support something I heard that the 3 car 165's will end up at Exeter and the 166s in Bristol.

Does Exeter have enough diagrams for 16 3 car units?

This is a long way off yet, as the 769s are still a long way from passenger service

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Does Exeter have enough diagrams for 16 3 car units?

This is a long way off yet, as the 769s are still a long way from passenger service

With the 150s no Exeter doesn’t need that many 16x however the long term plan was always the 165s would work the more suburban type operations (Devon and Bristol local services) with the 166s on the longer distance routes such as Weymouth.

 

[jackot]

165s are keeping it for now as they still need it for the North Downs.

That makes sense, especially judging by the 'progress' of the 769s.

 

[REVUpminster]

Does Exeter have enough diagrams for 16 3 car units?

This is a long way off yet, as the 769s are still a long way from passenger service

Exeter has 20 150s and all the 3 car 158s and a depot rebuilt to handle 3 car trains not being used to it's potential.

Today unusually only 13 of the 150s in service. Paignton had 4 units operating two diagrams, 3 166s and 2 3 car 158s. 3 3 car 158s operating Barnstaple so on paper looks good. If GWR could operate 3 car trains on the Cornwall services maybe by making up some 3 car 150s they could claim seat increase by 50% and get a five car on St Ives although that seems too late for this summer despite platform extensions and what has happened to the extension of platform 1 at Exeter which would have improved capacity.

 

[GWVillager]

165s are keeping it for now as they still need it for the North Downs.

The 165s have had it removed for bicycle space haven't they?

 

[JonathanH]

The 165s have had it removed for bicycle space haven't they?

Only the two car ones (and actually they fitted standard class seats where the first class seats were and put a bike rack at the other end of the train).

 

[GWVillager]

Ah, thanks.

Only the two car ones (and actually they fitted standard class seats where the first class seats were and put a bike rack at the other end of the train)

 

[3973EXL]

STP 10/09 5Q74 0829 Wolverton - Reading Traincare Depot dep 0824
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K04828/2022-09-10/detailed

STP 10/09 5Q70 1125 Reading Traincare Depot - Wolverton dep 1135
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K04827/2022-09-10/detailed