Avanti ticket sales suspension - Making users think it isn't possible to travel.

[Failed Unit]

Not sure best place to put this.

With the current situation with Avanti, we actually have an example of how it is hurting rail more generally.

Let us take the long distance example:
Put London Terminals - Glasgow Central / Queen Street in a journey planner you can't book anything. So what will someone that isn't familiar with rail do? Do to Easyjet or BA (not Heathrow)

However if you select via Edinburgh - you get some options. (But why would a "normal" person do this?) - Even now some LNER services are totally sold out (as is typical at this time of year). Doing a quick look at the key cities they serve, the only options I could find a fare for without changing filters was Birmingham.

Not sure if they will change the journey planners. But personally feel when Mr Shapps is doing is best to close down the rail and encourage people to fly (cutting APD as an example) this is giving him the perfect ammo. I think this is very damaging to rail, they really need the trains removed from the booking engine if possible, so the slower alternatives can at least be quoted. This is very bad to helping rail recover considering it should be one of the first lines to get back it passengers, but it is also impacting the rural lines.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Yep I wanted to book Euston to Stockport on Saturday when I got up at 5am. Not only was the first train 8:20am but both it and the 9:20 said Sold Out!

Of course I booked the 10:20 Off Peak ticket and travelled on the 8:20 but I've not ever seen Sold Out trains before

 

[HST274]

Out of interest why can't you book anything for weekdays say in September? Have the tickets simply not been made available yet?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Out of interest why can't you book anything for weekdays say in September? Have the tickets simply not been made available yet?

Correct.

 

[Carlisle]

In fairness to Avanti these practices aren’t exactly new, around 15 years ago I took advantage of an offer in the local paper from GNER, however trying to actually find a train that wasn’t fully booked was akin to a needle in a haystack.

 

[AgeoftheTrain7]

But personally feel when Mr Shapps is doing is best to close down the rail and encourage people to fly (cutting APD as an example) this is giving him the perfect ammo.

I would agree - it's proven over many years how Tory governments don't like the railways and prefer private transport or flying to be favoured!

 

[LowLevel]

I've had a panicked message from a mate who needs to travel home from work from Scotland next week who is thoroughly perplexed by every train showing Sold Out. It really is a crap interface

 

[HST274]

Correct.

Thanks for the clarification. I wondered because for short term journeys (tomorrow for example) tickets were available on trainline albeit at a ridiculous price

 

[Bald Rick]

It’s because the new timetable has yet to be processed fully through the planning systems.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

For once Avanti have done the right thing, they just need to make sure the message gets out to people so they understand the reason why they've taken tickets offline.

 

[Failed Unit]

For once Avanti have done the right thing, they just need to make sure the message gets out to people so they understand the reason why they've taken tickets offline.

I agree. If they are really going to hourly to Manchester the trains could be full once they have planned the timetable they trains could all be full anyway. It is just a pity that you cant see feasible alternatives as they are slower.

LNER + Scotrail is about 1 hour slower, but unknown to the causal passengers.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Out of interest why can't you book anything for weekdays say in September? Have the tickets simply not been made available yet?

The timetable hasn't been written yet

 

[Bald Rick]

The timetable hasn't been written yet

It has. It just hasn’t been processed through the planning systems. That takes a couple of days.

 

[Failed Unit]

Even if it had, I suspect many trains will be sold out as soon as they go live. Peak season and no capacity = problems.

 

[XAM2175]

For once Avanti have done the right thing, they just need to make sure the message gets out to people so they understand the reason why they've taken tickets offline.

Yes, defaulting to "sold out" is lazy and perpetuates the confusing messaging.

 

[smid]

BBC is reporting avanti ticket sales are suspended for a month today, I came on here to see what the thoughts are with this, and the practicalities of this (can I book an off-peak return from Wolverhampton to Glasgow via cross country, for instance).

I'm not completely sure this news was clear given the replies to the thread just about not being able to book some trains...

 

[realaledrinker]

BBC is reporting avanti ticket sales are suspended for a month today, I came on here to see what the thoughts are with this, and the practicalities of this (can I book an off-peak return from Wolverhampton to Glasgow via cross country, for instance).

I'm not completely sure this news was clear given the replies to the thread just about not being able to book some trains...

No if you read on it says they will release tickets on a rolling weekly basis, a week in advance., from next Sunday.

 

[smid]

No if you read on it says they will release tickets on a rolling weekly basis, a week in advance., from next Sunday.

Ah thanks, reading the headline, and then missing the vital bits

 

[TUC]

Frankly, why should I or anyone rlse want to travel by rail when Avanti come up with such an incompetent, passenger-unfriendly approach which makes it impossible for people to plan travel and gives misleading messages about what will turn out to be actual availability a couple of werks later? Worse, the other TOCs are complicit in not caring about passengers by not publicly criticising Avanti for an approach that damages their own businesses?

Let the whole industry fall into financial ruin until it learns how to operate like any other business. Plenty of us have got other ways to travel

Ah thanks, reading the headline, and then missing the vital bits

What use is that? If I'm goung away with my family in three weeks' time I want to plan that now or make other arrangements. Why would anyone wait until a week before?

 

[Fiyero]

I was planning to go from Eastleigh to Milton Keynes in a few weeks time. The journey planners would only route me on Avanti out of London rather than slower options but wouldn't give a fare. I changed my plans for other reasons but I am sure that would make many people give up!

 

[norbitonflyer]

We have advance tickets on Avanti to return home on Sunday evening, but now have no idea whether our train will be running. As one of our party is on crutches (due to an accident that happened long after we booked the tickets) it is quite important that we find out as soon as possible what is actually going to run.

If our train isn#'t one of those running, will our tickets be honoured on other trains and will we be able to reserve seats (or at least one!)?

 

[Bletchleyite]

We have advance tickets on Avanti to return home on Sunday evening, but now have no idea whether our train will be running. As one of our party is on crutches (due to an accident that happened long after we booked the tickets) it is quite important that we find out as soon as possible what is actually going to run.

If our train isn#'t one of those running, will our tickets be honoured on other trains

Yes.

and will we be able to reserve seats (or at least one!)?

Probably not, but realistically if someone on crutches goes into a coach someone will give their seat up. First place to try is a priority seat.

 

[pemma]

In fairness to Avanti these practices aren’t exactly new, around 15 years ago I took advantage of an offer in the local paper from GNER, however trying to actually find a train that wasn’t fully booked was akin to a needle in a haystack.

The difference with Avanti is you can select a full price Anytime Single or Return and still be told that the train is fully booked, not just that you can't reserve a seat on it. If you turn up at a ticket office and asked for the same ticket, you wouldn't be asked which train do you want to travel on, to then be told the one you want is unavailable!

 

[david1212]

For any open ticket be it Anytime or Off-Peak valid on all permitted routes rather than a train or operator specific ticket neither a booking office, TVM or online system ought by default ask the intended day(s) and times(s) of travel. Fine to have the option to enter these to show a choice of options so the intending passenger to decide if to proceed. The system should only show no available train when actually true. If the journey is reasonably possible but off route with separate tickets at a higher combined price that should be shown. Following only if you choose to book a seat on a specific train will you then be told non are available.

I wonder with an open ticket for an Avanti route how many journeys can not be made by using other operators probably with train changes and/or taking another permitted route?

 

[TUC]

Yes.



Probably not, but realistically if someone on crutches goes into a coach someone will give their seat up. First place to try is a priority seat.

Surely if on crutches it would be reasonable to arrange assistance and thus for alternative trains and a reserved seat being identified via that route?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely if on crutches it would be reasonable to arrange assistance and thus for alternative trains and a reserved seat being identified via that route?

True, the "table for two" by the shop is generally kept back for that purpose.

 

[TUC]

It speaks volumes about the poor speed of response that National Rail have not amended the algorithms to make alternative journeys much more readily visible.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Surely if on crutches it would be reasonable to arrange assistance and thus for alternative trains and a reserved seat being identified via that route?

Difficult to arrange assistance if you don't know what train you will be on because you don't know what trains are avalable because they still haven't published the timetable.

 

[TUC]

Difficult to arrange assistance if you don't know what train you will be on because you don't know what trains are avalable because they still haven't published the timetable.

I'm suggesting that by booking assistance that becomes the TOC's problem to figure out and to come back to you with alternatives.

 

[hkstudent]

Frankly, why should I or anyone rlse want to travel by rail when Avanti come up with such an incompetent, passenger-unfriendly approach which makes it impossible for people to plan travel and gives misleading messages about what will turn out to be actual availability a couple of werks later? Worse, the other TOCs are complicit in not caring about passengers by not publicly criticising Avanti for an approach that damages their own businesses?

Let the whole industry fall into financial ruin until it learns how to operate like any other business. Plenty of us have got other ways to travel


What use is that? If I'm goung away with my family in three weeks' time I want to plan that now or make other arrangements. Why would anyone wait until a week before?

Indeed. And something worse is: when Avanti ticketa are blocked, other alternatives are not shown as well, such as LNR+TfW ticket from London to Manchester, or LNER ticket from London to Glasgow.
That's not helpful.