Avanti West Coast Cancellations

[DarloRich]

this board - discussion of livery and names for some hypothetical change!

the politics here is what should be under discussion. What power do a group of northern mayors and Councils have to change the policy of a differently coloured government?

 

[185]

"A spokesman for the DfT"

Why do these never have a name on them. With clear and open government, the civil servant, secretary or minister must take responsibility for decision made.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Pre-2012 Virgin Trains was a great employer to work for, with some pretty enviable perks across the wider group. It started to go downhill after the refranchising debacle.

2012 was the point when Branson stepped away and let Stagecoach do the JV work, with only minority Virgin involvement in new bids.
While ICWC remained 51-49 throughout, Stagecoach would have controlled the franchise had they won in 2019.

 

[ScottGallagher]

this board - discussion of livery and names for some hypothetical change!

the politics here is what should be under discussion. What power do a group of northern mayors and Councils have to change the policy of a differently coloured government?

They have little to no power, if they were Tory Mayors they may have more influence.

The Anti Avanti drums are only going to get louder as the service worsens , A week is a long time in politics and if there is an opportunity of making hay out of getting rid of Avanti in the run up to the election of course it will be done.

 

[DarloRich]

if they were Tory Mayors they may have more influence.

Is Andy Street involved?

Why do these never have a name on them. With clear and open government, the civil servant, secretary or minister must take responsibility for decision made.

The minister is accountable for all departmental decisions.

The statement is made by a junior press officer to a reporter.

 

[185]

The minister is accountable for all departmental decisions.

A natural assumption as the buck stops with Huw Merriman, but it would be nice to see who has given him the helpful advice that he pretty much has to follow.

 

[DarloRich]

A natural assumption as the buck stops with Huw Merriman, but it would be nice to see who has given him the helpful advice that he pretty much has to follow.

why? What is the point?

 

[irish_rail]

For all those banging on about how bad Avanti is, there is one good reason for this as far as I can see, and it's the Dft. Where comparable TOCs like GWR have been allowed to recruit traincrew none stop for the past 5 years to seriously swell and over populate depots, for some reason this approach hasn't been adopted at Avanti. One can only assume this is at the behest of the DFT looking to run the service with as few drivers as possible. Well sorry, that approach doesn't work. Avanti need to recruit and recruit hard. Not apprentices that are 2 years from becoming productive, but a mass driver recruitment, at all depots , and really swell the numbers in their ranks. Within about 6 months (provided you take on qualified drivers as opposed to apprentices) things will start to pick up.

 

[JW4]

First did take precautions for the possibility of losing the franchise when issuing the latest FirstGroup Travel Cards
“5. This concession is non-contractual and is only available whilst FirstGroup remains the TOC franchise holder.”
If they do the lose the franchise these cards become completely worthless with GWR as the only surviving FirstGroup franchise.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

First did take precautions for the possibility of losing the franchise when issuing the latest FirstGroup Travel Cards
“5. This concession is non-contractual and is only available whilst FirstGroup remains the TOC franchise holder.”
If they do the lose the franchise these cards become completely worthless with GWR as the only surviving FirstGroup franchise.

This has always been on the First Group Travel cards it is nothing new.

Along with GWR, SWR also remains a FG TOC along with open access operators Hull Trains and Lumo.

 

[JW4]

This has always been on the First Group Travel cards it is nothing new.

Along with GWR, SWR also remains a FG TOC along with open access operators Hull Trains and Lumo.

Oh yeah forgot about Hull Trains and Lumo being applicable. And SWR being FirstGroup.

This has always been on the First Group Travel cards it is nothing new.

I assume this has always been there as well, haven’t really paid attention to those details before using it before this. Just remember the details that I feel are necessary to remember.
“It is your responsibility to keep up to date with franchise changes as the list of Train Operating Companies on which this card is valid may alter during the card's validity”
The change to TPE ofc applies to the last travel card period (April 2023-March 2024), they had a similar story with the cancellations and industrial relations that’s causing Avanti problems as well as First not really caring about the standard of service, customer happiness or employee happiness which is helping these cancellations roll on. And then there’s the whole DFT stuff but that’s all tied in.

 

[Snow1964]

Not sure if it is fluke or a panicky reaction, but DfT has 21st March decided to publish the West Coast Partnership agreement and Business Commitments

West Coast Partnership 2023 rail contract

Rail contract and ancillary legal documents for First Trenitalia West Coast Rail Limited.

www.gov.uk

 

[Clarence Yard]

No, it’s just the usual update. GWR was done about a week ago.

The point about the OLR wibble is that TOC staff would never know before any significant DfT announcement about a TOC. That kind of thing is always kept very quiet between Government and the Owning Group, sometimes with the OG only getting a call the day before, usually just after the markets close.

If that happens the OG has only a few hours to get it’s spin together but sometimes the DfT give you a little more time if you need to agree the spin with the DfT, but the TOC is usually kept in the dark, because of the sensitivities involved.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Is Andy Street involved?

No, Transport for the North covers the North West of England (Cheshire to Cumbria), Yorkshire and the North East of England, not the West Midlands.
The West Midlands is in fact in the Southern half of England, Birmingham is 80 miles South of Manchester and 80 miles North of Bristol.

https://transportforthenorth.com/our-north/local-authorities

 

[Elecman]

There was a case some years ago where virgin took a passenger to court for having a Lancaster-Euston season ticket but was boarding and alighting at Preston. For that very reason, it was cheaper from Lancaster than Preston.

And still is

 

[weeklycommuter]

They have little to no power, if they were Tory Mayors they may have more influence.

Some of the Board members are Conservatives, the Chair Lord McLoughlin is a Conservative and the Board's decision to call for Avanti's contract to be terminated is reported to be unanimous.

https://transportforthenorth.com/about-transport-for-the-north/our-board/

Northern leaders vote to end Avanti train contract

Mayors and council leaders told representatives from the rail operator that they have 'lost confidence' that services will improve

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

Northern mayors and council leaders have voted for Avanti West Coast to lose its contract. The Transport for the North (TfN) board unanimously backed the move to formally call for the rail operator's contract to be terminated 'at the earliest possible opportunity'.

 

[JW4]

Avanti West Coast won’t be nationalised, says Minister

UK: The government will not terminate Avanti West Coast's operating contract, Rail Minister Huw Merriman has told the House of Commons. At Transport Questions on March 21, Labour's Shadow Rail Minister Stephen Morgan asked 'a simple question to the Minister today, will he strip Avanti of ...

www.railwaygazette.com

Article from the Railway Gazette:

UK: The government will not terminate Avanti West Coast’s operating contract, Rail Minister Huw Merriman has told the House of Commons.

At Transport Questions on March 21, Labour’s Shadow Rail Minister Stephen Morgan asked ‘a simple question to the Minister today, will he strip Avanti of its contract: Yes or no?’

Merriman replied ’No, Mr Speaker, we will not’.

Merriman said the West Coast Main Line has ’issues which will remain regardless of who the operator is, and it is essential to get underneath the bonnet, look at the issues and fix those rather than what’s on the side of the car’.

He said ’taking one four-week period from Christmas, 65% of the delays were not down to the operator, they were down to Network Rail. That involves weather related issues, but sadly trespass and suicide, which we need to minimise’. He also said there are restrictive contracts between the operator and unions which he ’would like to see change’.

Commenting afterwards, Labour’s Shadow Secretary of State for Transport Louise Haigh said ’with Labour, rail franchises will be brought back into public ownership as contracts expire or are broken, and passengers will always come first’.

The question came the day after the Transport for the North board passed a motion to write to the Secretary of State with statutory advice asking for the Avanti West Coast contract to be terminated ‘at the earliest possible opportunity’. The Department for Transport’s Operator of Last Resort should take on responsibility for operations in the short term, TfN recommended.


‘The performance on the West Coast Main Line by Avanti has been so poor, for so long that action now must be taken’, said TfN Chair Lord Patrick McLoughlin. ‘The travelling public deserve a service they can rely on. But Avanti has fallen far too short of expectations for far too long now.’

 

[43066]

Article from the Railway Gazette:

So the can has been kicked down the road, it’s been filed in the “too difficult” pile, etc.

What a surprise!

Quite honestly the striking of a RDW agreement with ASLEF will mean far more for performance, at least in the short term, than whose name is above the door, as I think has already been seen.

 

[Wolfie]

Merriman makes Grayling look uber efficient. Avanti are now so poor that l routinely book LNWR tickets because although they are slower in the timetable in reality they are often, courtesy of cancellations and unreliablity, faster in reality..... Not to mention massively cheaper....

 

[185]

Article from the Railway Gazette:
TfN Chair Lord Patrick McLoughlin. ‘The travelling public deserve a service they can rely on. But Avanti has fallen far too short of expectations for far too long now.’

It should be noted, that in 2012, Pat McLoughlin terminated FirstGroup's hopes & dreams to ruin take over the WCML. Keep up the good work Pat!

 

[YorkRailFan]

Yes service may not see a significant improvement, but at least the DFT wouldn't be giving Avanti "Free Money" (Avanti’s words not mine) to operate the shambles of a service.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It should be noted, that in 2012, Pat McLoughlin terminated FirstGroup's hopes & dreams to ruin take over the WCML. Keep up the good work Pat!

He (or EU procurement policy) then hobbled Virgin with four no-change 2-year direct awards until the franchise was rebid in 2019.
That meant no significant change in operation for essentially a decade, with only a short contract horizon.
About the only real change in that period was the successful merging of Euston-West Mids and West Mids-Scotland services.

 

[donny12]

So the can has been kicked down the road, it’s been filed in the “too difficult” pile, etc.

What a surprise!

Quite honestly the striking of a RDW agreement with ASLEF will mean far more for performance, at least in the short term, than whose name is above the door, as I think has already been seen.

43066 - possibly not the right way to do it but would appreciate your advice on something having seen some of your other posts. Can you DM me as your profile is currently private. Cheers

 

[bengolding]

Avanti advise that a staff meeting is taking place at Euston on Monday so make of that what you will.

 

[Toby268]

Avanti advise that a staff meeting is taking place at Euston on Monday so make of that what you will.

There’s staff meetings every day of the week. What is the difference with this one?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

For all those banging on about how bad Avanti is, there is one good reason for this as far as I can see, and it's the Dft. Where comparable TOCs like GWR have been allowed to recruit traincrew none stop for the past 5 years to seriously swell and over populate depots, for some reason this approach hasn't been adopted at Avanti. One can only assume this is at the behest of the DFT looking to run the service with as few drivers as possible. Well sorry, that approach doesn't work. Avanti need to recruit and recruit hard. Not apprentices that are 2 years from becoming productive, but a mass driver recruitment, at all depots , and really swell the numbers in their ranks. Within about 6 months (provided you take on qualified drivers as opposed to apprentices) things will start to pick up.

Depleting other operators isn't going to help the industry

 

[350401]

The new day working agreement seems to making a real difference today. There are significantly fewer cancellations today compared to previous Saturdays. I’m currently on a fairly lightly loaded Euston to Manchester service, with the loadings being lighter as having a proper 3tph service is mopping up the crowds nicely. Hopefully this keeps up, it’s a nice change.

 

[JW4]

390001 seems to be stationary on Coventry Platform 3 with all doors locked. Any idea what might have happened.

9G15 10:40 Birmingham to Euston cancelled due to a broken down train (C501) - Darwin, problem with the traction equipment (MD) - RTT

1B38 11:47 Birmingham to Euston cancelled due because of more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time (CS507) - Darwin

11:56 EUS —> BHM and therefore 12:47 BHM —> EUS both cancelled because of a broken down train.

Presume the broken down train being referred to is that Pendolino in Platform 3 and therefore traction equipment might be the issue.

14:47 Birmingham to Euston is again a Double Voyager instead of a Pendolino, happened quite a lot a Double Voyager doing one of the fasts from Birmingham in recent weeks.

 

[800001]

390001 seems to be stationary on Coventry Platform 3 with all doors locked. Any idea what might have happened?

Loss of power last night while working 9G49.
Unit expected to move towards Oxley at roughly 16:00, fitters have attended and rectified the faults.

 

[JW4]

Loss of power last night while working 9G49.
Unit expected to move towards Oxley at roughly 16:00, fitters have attended and rectified the faults.

I see, thanks for the info.