Avanti West Coast Cancellations

[Howardh]

Due to diversions two Avanti trains came through Bolton, around 1930, between them they probably had fewer than 50 pax on, but if the lines good enough for a diversion, let's have a regular service and link, directly, a town of 250000 to London.

 

[dk1]

Due to diversions two Avanti trains came through Bolton, around 1930, between them they probably had fewer than 50 pax on, but if the lines good enough for a diversion, let's have a regular service and link, directly, a town of 250000 to London.

So much engineering work on the WCML this weekend with nothing going through to London it’s hardly surprising loadings are poor.

 

[Peter0124]

Due to diversions two Avanti trains came through Bolton, around 1930, between them they probably had fewer than 50 pax on, but if the lines good enough for a diversion, let's have a regular service and link, directly, a town of 250000 to London.

No trains north of Preston today so not surprised about the lack of pax. Tomorrow might be different though.

 

[The Planner]

Due to diversions two Avanti trains came through Bolton, around 1930, between them they probably had fewer than 50 pax on, but if the lines good enough for a diversion, let's have a regular service and link, directly, a town of 250000 to London.

Was Wigan blocked? Otherwise going via Bolton is something Avanti dont normally accept.

 

[james_the_xv]

if the lines good enough for a diversion, let's have a regular service and link, directly, a town of 250000 to London.

Not always a convincing argument for those in the bean counter's office

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Was Wigan blocked? Otherwise going via Bolton is something Avanti dont normally accept.

Line is blocked around Golborne.

 

[Peter0124]

As the Pendolinos can't serve Manchester 13/14, I think the route via Bolton wouldn't be much beneficial apart from during diversions like this, even if you stopped at Bolton as you lose out on serving Wigan/Warrington.

In the event of 13/14 being able to be used, the Scottish TPEs could be transferred to Avanti and merged with a Manchester-London service and you'd have a 1tph Scotland-Bolton-Manchester-London service all in one.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

As the Pendolinos can't serve Manchester 13/14, I think the route via Bolton wouldn't be much beneficial apart from during diversions like this, even if you stopped at Bolton as you lose out on serving Wigan/Warrington.

Since when could they not serve 13/14?
They definitely were able to in the past.

 

[Peter0124]

Since when could they not serve 13/14?
They definitely were able to in the past.

They were, but I believe only on a set down/pick up only basis when the through diversions from Scotland happened in 2019 (ie pax could only use them between Manchester and London as I think they merged into the xx.55 services)

Right now they're just passing the station though. I remember they used to fully call at Stockport during diversions but that looks to be done away with too.

 

[M60lad]

I thought the diversions were stopping at Stockport, as for Manchester Piccadilly Platforms 13/14 I thought the reason why they don't stop there is due to sight reasons due to the length of the trains and also the fact that both platforms are on a bend which makes sightlines a problem making dispatching them difficult.

 

[dk1]

That seems like a FirstGroup issue as TPE also had that issue during the pandemic.

No surprise there with those two. Both seem to be ran appallingly compared to GWR which was also under FG banner.

 

[Deafdoggie]

They were, but I believe only on a set down/pick up only basis when the through diversions from Scotland happened in 2019 (ie pax could only use them between Manchester and London as I think they merged into the xx.55 services)

Right now they're just passing the station though. I remember they used to fully call at Stockport during diversions but that looks to be done away with too.

In Virgin days they called on 13/14 as a normal stop in both directions. What has changed since then I don't know.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In Virgin days they called on 13/14 as a normal stop in both directions. What has changed since then I don't know.

Presumably the Ordsall White Elephant, sorry, Chord, making congestion on those platforms much, much worse.

 

[The Planner]

Presumably the Ordsall White Elephant, sorry, Chord, making congestion on those platforms much, much worse.

Nothing to do with that. It takes too long to dwell and the platforms are too narrow to deal with the amount of people. Avanti won't do it.

 

[jfollows]

As Peter0124 says above, Avanti stopped in Piccadilly platforms 13/14 back in 2019, but it was a mess.

Platforms were overcrowded and (for other reasons) trains ran late also.

My only time over the Ordsall Chord I came from Victoria, saw the Pendolino from Glasgow waiting in the traffic jam at Castlefield Junction to follow us in due course, got off at Piccadilly and got as far away as I could from the scrum at platform 13, caught a Pendolino from the main station instead, saw the Glasgow Pendolino arriving as we were leaving, it then followed us in due course and I caught it from Stockport to Wilmslow. Where I didn't even bother trying to find a seat.

And the Glasgow service became the xx.55 from Piccadilly with the usual calls, hence why I eventually caught it at Stockport. But anyone having a reservation for it had to put up with platform 13 and the train's significant delay.

I think the Stockport calls used to be for traincrew purposes, presumably now they're not necessary and the crew can work the train Preston-Crewe. As long as there are enough "normal" trains then it makes sense to avoid stopping anywhere.

 

[dk1]

Presumably the Ordsall White Elephant, sorry, Chord, making congestion on those platforms much, much worse.

I thought services along the Castlefield corridor had been thinned out a little.

 

[BrokenSam]

I thought services along the Castlefield corridor had been thinned out a little.

Does seem a little quicker to get through these days.

 

[dk1]

Does seem a little quicker to get through these days.

It has certainly helped although whether that makes the Ordsall chord rather a poor investment is another story.

 

[Howardh]

Tried to count the number of coaches on the pendos as they passed me by, think there were nine on each, if anyone can look it up on RTT to confirm? If it were 9 I would assume they would fit into 13/14.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Tried to count the number of coaches on the pendos as they passed me by, think there were nine on each, if anyone can look it up on RTT to confirm? If it were 9 I would assume they would fit into 13/14.

9 and 11 car trains were both running, 11 cars fit into 13/14 fine.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Bolton all day on 31/03/2024

Train information at Bolton all day on 31/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Bungle965]

Nothing to do with that. It takes too long to dwell and the platforms are too narrow to deal with the amount of people. Avanti won't do it.

A small point of order, it isn’t that they won’t do it rather it is completely the last option. The last time that I remember was September 2020 when the Italian signalling from Cheadle Hulme onwards went pop, they were running shuttles from Platform 14 to Crewe.

Of course it all went tits up when one had no driver to take it forward and completely stuffed the junction.

 

[The Planner]

A small point of order, it isn’t that they won’t do it rather it is completely the last option. The last time that I remember was September 2020 when the Italian signalling from Cheadle Hulme onwards went pop, they were running shuttles from Platform 14 to Crewe.

Of course it all went tits up when one had no driver to take it forward and completely stuffed the junction.

OK, on a planned basis due to engineering works, they won't do it. All bets are normally off for any normal procedure when it all goes tits up.

 

[Howardh]

9 and 11 car trains were both running, 11 cars fit into 13/14 fine.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Bolton all day on 31/03/2024

Train information at Bolton all day on 31/03/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Thanks, at least I was correct with one!

 

[Clarence Yard]

No surprise there with those two. Both seem to be ran appallingly compared to GWR which was also under FG banner.

No, it had more to do with how many trained drivers you had to run your trains when COVID struck. It really was the luck of the draw.

GWR had just gone through a big recruitment and training exercise so had plenty spare to cover sickness and attrition during the COVID period otherwise they would have been stuffed too. TPE, Avanti and others were just starting and then it all came to a grinding halt, leaving them progressively shorter of staff as time went by.

 

[dk1]

No, it had more to do with how many trained drivers you had to run your trains when COVID struck. It really was the luck of the draw.

GWR had just gone through a big recruitment and training exercise so had plenty spare to cover sickness and attrition during the COVID period otherwise they would have been stuffed too. TPE, Avanti and others were just starting and then it all came to a grinding halt, leaving them progressively shorter of staff as time went by.

So strange that they didn’t start training again like some other TOCs did and very successfully too during the pandemic but that’s all water under the bridge now. Both Avanti & TPE appeared to turn toxic.

 

[Clarence Yard]

I think it really depended on the “minding” regime from the DfT at that TOC, together with the attitude from the reps/local officials to training during COVID.

In some cases there was a great reluctance from the staff side to allow anyone extra in the cab and in others, the DfT minder took COVID as an excuse to turn the screw on the TOC from doing any recruitment or training, to save the DfT some money.

It really varied across the industry and even between TOCs in the same owning group.

 

[Leisurefirst]

Booked Euston to Liverpool Lime Street Advances for this morning 06:33 arr 09:04 a couple of weeks or so ago and Superfares returning this evening.
06:33 got canned a few days ago but I only found out at the bottom of an e-mail I could easily have deleted full of marketing fluff.
Also received another e-mail full of nonsense like playlists for my journey and how to make it more special etc. again with our train crossed-out and cancelled only when scrolling right down the bottom.
Got 07:43 arr 10:04 instead which (of course) arrived one minute early denying me a full refund.
Was allocated last direct train back at 19:43 this evening by e-mail yesterday morning. During lunch thought I'd better check still running.
Also cancelled along with services afterwards requiring a change IIRC.
Complete fluke I checked.
Would have ended-up stranded and required road transport or hotel presumably.
Forced to miss two hours of the day as it was and lucky to not be at an event we could not have left early and not be spending the night away from home with a vulnerable person, no toiletries or change of clothes and an event to attend in London tomorrow.
When politely express dissatisfaction nobody could e-mail me or text me was (nicely, but still) told we always advise people check their journey.
Why should I?
When did this become acceptable?
(Passenger Assistance also booked, never heard from them either).

 

[Horizon22]

I think it really depended on the “minding” regime from the DfT at that TOC, together with the attitude from the reps/local officials to training during COVID.

In some cases there was a great reluctance from the staff side to allow anyone extra in the cab and in others, the DfT minder took COVID as an excuse to turn the screw on the TOC from doing any recruitment or training, to save the DfT some money.

It really varied across the industry and even between TOCs in the same owning group.

Yes it was very luck of the draw. Places like GWR had copious spares as the timetable ramped up after Covid, Avanti started falling apart.

Standard DfT "cost of everything, value of nothing" approach.

 

[glasgowniteowl]

Why do avanti continue to sell advances ticket for travel when they know that they are having resource issues?

For example my friend at avanti control has told me that tomorrow avanti are really struggling to cover services on wcml but a quick check shows advances available on all their services, surely they should have some sort of communication internally that says pull those advances from sale as we are going to have to put on bus replacements

 

[uww11x]

Why do avanti continue to sell advances ticket for travel when they know that they are having resource issues?

For example my friend at avanti control has told me that tomorrow avanti are really struggling to cover services on wcml but a quick check shows advances available on all their services, surely they should have some sort of communication internally that says pull those advances from sale as we are going to have to put on bus replacements

It's all about as making as much money as possible. Horrible company Avanti.