Avanti West Coast Shop

[Trackman]

Happens all the time. And afaik there's no way to purchase shop credit through their app.

Would click and collect work? Saying that it doesn't work 90% of the time. I also guess it wouldn't work if the shop's card reader Wi-Fi was down.

 

[p.d87]

Would click and collect work? Saying that it doesn't work 90% of the time. I also guess it wouldn't work if the shop's card reader Wi-Fi was down.

Click and collect only works from the WiFi onboard the specific train. If the WiFi won't allow the card machines to work it won't allow orders via the at seat app.

 

[Rescars]

Perhaps there should be a permanent warning, on the lines of 'Normally we accept cash and card payments on board, but the latter cannot be guaranteed due to occasional internet connection issues'?

Or perhaps an honest statement that " We normally accept cash and cards, but actually we can't guarantee if either or both will be functioning on your journey today!"

 

[Energy]

And this sort of thing is why I always carry both. I was in Luton recently and visited a few pubs. The first one was strictly cash only, but the next one was cards only. Unusual? Maybe. But not unknown. A couple of £20/£10 notes and a few 20p coins (for pay toilets) take up almost no space or weight and may save you some grief, even if you've gone fully cashless in general.

Its not particularly surprising. If you live down the street from the bank then dropping of the cash isn't too much of an inconvenience and is worth it to avoid the card payment fees. I've been to small villages in Cornwall in which the nearest bank is far away and the post office only opens 2 hours a day, 2 days a week. For them dealing with the influx of cash from tourists is inconvenient.

 

[142blue]

I remember working voyagers and it was no card sales til north of Milton Keynes

Personally think it's embarrassing that in 2023 it can't do payments without WiFi

How do Jet2 manage at 30000 feet

And is it reasonable or fair to expect someone go for hours on end without the ability to buy food and drink. Either provide the service AND the payment methods or don't bother and franchise it out to someone who is capable

 

[sheff1]

And is it reasonable or fair to expect someone go for hours on end without the ability to buy food and drink.

That anyone would go on a lengthy journey of any sort without cash is quite baffling, you never know what might happen and when you might need some. If people do choose to go on such journeys without a very easy to obtain back up payment option I have little sympathy.

What is 'unfair' is if a TOC advertises a refreshment service and then fails to provide it without warning - yet people regularly say you should mitigate against such an event by stocking up before you board but seemingly think it is perfectly reasonable not to take mitigating action against the possibilty of needing cash to make a purchase.

 

[Dan_Frank]

the WiFi was working on the train. they did direct people to use click and collect. they said immediately upon leaving Glasgow that the card machines in the shop wouldn't be working for the entire journey. the ticket inspector had a working card machine.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

On a "budget" airline, if the card machine for catering fails or is broken, in my experience staff comp it.

That must be for catering only. I can't imagine them comping a bottle of Chanel No.5 just because the card machine isn't working for duty free!

 

[WillPS]

I don't know how much money an onboard shop takes in any given day, but if I was Avanti I'd be giving staff the means to activate their work phone as a hotspot to enable the terminal to do a card authorisation. Or even using terminals with integrated LTE/NR modems.

It would be a PCI Compliance nightmare to do the former.

 

[ScottGallagher]

Did the Pendolino WiFi even get an upgrade during the refurbishments bearing in mind the cashless trends we are now seeing?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would be a PCI Compliance nightmare to do the former.

Best way would probably just be to have terminals with an integrated SIM card, then the train wifi is irrelevant.

 

[N0G83]

It would be a PCI Compliance nightmare to do the former.

My train operating companies WiFi is Unsecured, is this the same for Avanti’s? How do they mitigate against a WiFi Snffer?

 

[Bletchleyite]

My train operating companies WiFi is Unsecured, is this the same for Avanti’s? How do they mitigate against a WiFi Snffer?

HTTPS is encrypted to as good a standard as anything, what is anyone going to do with the packets even if they sniff them?

 

[Nym]

My train operating companies WiFi is Unsecured, is this the same for Avanti’s? How do they mitigate against a WiFi Snffer?

802.1Q VLANs and separate SSIDs.

 

[HORNIMANS]

802.1Q VLANs and separate SSIDs.

you should always be able to buy with cards and cash.
The DfT want to do away with Wifi on trains altogether on any new trains.
i always get my journey supplies before I get to the station, its a lot cheaper.!

 

[N0G83]

HTTPS is encrypted to as good a standard as anything, what is anyone going to do with the packets even if they sniff them?

I suppose reading their mac address number.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose reading their mac address number.

And doing what with it?

 

[Energy]

My train operating companies WiFi is Unsecured, is this the same for Avanti’s? How do they mitigate against a WiFi Snffer?

Card machines nowadays directly connect to the network with communication to the till being messages like "Payment OK". Its why tills can be running old versions of Windows but the card payments are still secure. The packets will be encrypted so even if you could get the packets they'd be useless.

 

[185143]

As a slight aside, do any other TOCs than Avanti accept cash for catering?

I get the feeling Grand Central might, and have no idea about Greater Anglia. Otherwise I'm pretty sure no one else does.

 

[railfan99]

It’s always been like that. I always carry around £50 in cash for such eventualities.

Travel supplements in major Australian newspapers routinely suggest these days 'all you need is a credit or debit card/app-based payment'. They suggest 'it's OK to not carry any cash'.

I refuse to agree, as some stores (including onboard trains) either do not accept card payments (with stores presumably to minimise tax) or lack working WiFi.

I have a Visa card but it and Mastercard, while loving to mention affiliated frequent flyer/rewards programs, dislike mentioning how banks charge three per cent extra for overseas transactions. Carrying a credit (or debit) card or relying on Internet banking is convenient, but rewards points at which we salivate are negated once we take transaction fees for overseas purchases into account. Pyschologically, we still want the points as we dream of a 'free' business class flight (often unattainable as airlines routinely decrease 'value' of frequent flyer' points, or heavily restrict the number of rewards seats).

Visiting UK/Europe this year, I'll carry GBP and Euro notes. Bad luck if others suggest it's being a Luddite: cash saves from potentially sticky situations.

If GWR declines to accept cash yet publicises this poorly, does it love missing sales when standard class passengers who don't receive freebie meals and drinks present GBP, or when WiFi on its trains is inevitably down?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Travel supplements in major Australian newspapers routinely suggest these days 'all you need is a credit or debit card/app-based payment'. They suggest 'it's OK to not carry any cash'.

A lot of Londoners don't carry cash any more, but there is a major north south divide on it, and to some extent a young old divide too.

I carry some, mostly because my local chippy doesn't do card, pretty much the only cash only business I now use, but also just in case. If the chippy moves to card I'll probably stop.

 

[dk1]

Visiting UK/Europe this year, I'll carry GBP and Euro notes. Bad luck if others suggest it's being a Luddite: cash saves from potentially sticky situations.

Who cares what others think? Unusually I've used 3 taxis in the last couple of days and paid cash each time proudly being a luddite

 

[jon0844]

Who cares what others think? Unusually I've used 3 taxis in the last couple of days and paid cash each time proudly being a luddite

Taxis are now about the only thing I pay cash for, and I suppose the other cash-only spending is on Turkish barber shops...

 

[plugwash]

You would think they would just set up the terminals in the onboard shop to accept payment offline, sure the fraud risk is a little higher, but given how high the gross profit (not net profit) margins must be I would think that the lost sales would be a far bigger issue than the extra fraud risk of offline payments.

 

[PsychoMouse]

The faster cash dies the better.

 

[rmt4ever]

As a slight aside, do any other TOCs than Avanti accept cash for catering?

I get the feeling Grand Central might, and have no idea about Greater Anglia. Otherwise I'm pretty sure no one else does.

They all do except TPE, GWR and LNER. But the guard accepts cash, whats the difference ??

The faster cash dies the better.

In your opinion. I believe everyone should have the choice to pay as they wish

 

[Bletchleyite]

Taxis are now about the only thing I pay cash for, and I suppose the other cash-only spending is on Turkish barber shops...

I gave up paying cash for taxis ASAP, because it removes the rampant fraud - they can only charge what the app says and can't be clamouring for a tip or conveniently not having change. The experience of taxi travel with app booking and payment is so much better than it was in the days of booking one by telephone ("5 minutes" = anything from 30 seconds to an hour) and paying by cash where the fare might as well have been plucked from a tree.

 

[185143]

They all do except TPE, GWR and LNER. But the guard accepts cash, whats the difference ??


In your opinion. I believe everyone should have the choice to pay as they wish

I suspect the answer to that is "because the guard has to accept cash."

Transport for Wales definitely don't accept cash for catering, for the record. And I definitely agree with your second point.

 

[Prime586]

Airlines are different, the transactions are handled offline at time of payment and uploaded and reconciled after landing, sometimes after a couple of days in my recent experience. There is scope for fraud, of course, but at least the airlines generally know more about you than would be the case onboard trains.

On larger airlines with aircraft equipped with satellite broadband systems for onboard WiFi, the paymets are processed in real time over the satellite broadband link. For budget airlines or operators with older aircraft who don't want to go to the expense of installing satellite broadband and onboard WiFi systems, AS-IP Tech have the fflya system, which comprises of an onboard Bluetooth access point with antennas attached to cabin windows that connect to the Iridium satellie network. It provides low data rate messaging services (i.e. SMS, Whatsapp and email) for passengers and allows the onboard EFTPOS terminals to make live card transactions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

On larger airlines with aircraft equipped with satellite broadband systems for onboard WiFi, the paymets are processed in real time over the satellite broadband link. For budget airlines or operators with older aircraft who don't want to go to the expense of installing satellite broadband and onboard WiFi systems, AS-IP Tech have the fflya system, which comprises of an onboard Bluetooth access point with antennas attached to cabin windows that connect to the Iridium satellie network. It provides low data rate messaging services (i.e. SMS, Whatsapp and email) for passengers and allows the onboard EFTPOS terminals to make live card transactions.

Not all airlines do this, some still just process offline. Which is at their risk, but the losses involved are quite small so that's OK.