Seat reservations still not working (Avanti from Lime St this morning) - train manager just asked people to sit in their reserved seats, or sit in U or C if no reservation. No guidance on what do in standard premium, but I’m in there now with the coach to myself so they are probably playing that by ear! Does anyone know what’s caused it - is it just Avanti, or network-wide?
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Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium
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Vespa
Established Member
Probably Avanti, I have noticed they're dropping in standards, quality, first class offerings nothing like Virgin, no seat picker either.
Not a very good sign so early in the franchise.
And more reasons to focus on getting the basics right first rather than the distraction of attempting to introduce a third class.
I am not sure how many have seen the latest Rail magazine, where the introduction of Standard Premium gets a right slagging off.
That makes me feel even more positive about it tbh. If you annoy Rail then you are probably doing something right
They’ve disabled seat reservations on the West Coast route due to the weather splitting services. Not sure if this applies across the board on all Avanti or just services to/from Preston.
Sentinel
Member
The new first class offering is much better than Virgin’s offer ever was. Excellent choice all day, and all properly plated. Also a good range of food is available in the lounges - Virgin never did this. Look at the online menu for the good choice on the trains, especially the vegetarian options. Even the Milton Keynes passengers now get a welcoming alcoholic drink including Prosecco. You clearly havent travelled 1st class since the new service was introduced this Autumn.
Finally, the seat picket is available on Avanti’s website. Where are you trying to buy your tickets? It was only available previously on Virgin’s site anyway.
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Perhaps rather than reading Rail magazine you need to get on the Avanti services from Manchester to London where Standard Premium is getting increasingly busy. Much better than dragging around fresh air in the very empty coaches G, H and J as was increasingly the case prior to Covid lockdown. And the at seat service via the app seems to work well. Isn’t this all getting the basics right and reflecting changing patterns in demand?
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Vespa
Established Member
For your information if you were to read my past posts, I HAVE travelled on Avanti First Class before and after Covid, I can tell you compared to Virgin, service standards have fallen, the general consensus on this forum is that it has gone downhill, seat picker is a major loss of service, anything Avanti does will be compared to Virgin and it hasn't measured up at all.
So you're either lucky or work for Avanti PR department
Sentinel
Member
Sorry, I don’t work for Avanti. The seat picker is available, just get on the Avanti site, attempt a trial booking and you should be able to find it. I used it on Tuesday for a trip on Wednesday and successfully changed two seats in coach J for my outward and return trips.
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and regarding the 1st class meal service, please enlighten us all by telling us when Virgin offered full 1st class meal service including hot breakfasts on Saturdays and Sundays, as well as a full range of complimentary food in the lounges? I really don’t believe you have been travelling 1st class on Avanti recently since the new offerring was introduced.
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Sadly, that has not been my experience as a vegetarian. For example, travelled up to Manchester last Friday in the evening peak, and the only veggie option was cheese and biscuits.
Last time I travelled Avanti First Class, which was recently, there was no catering, no seat reservations and no coffee in the First Class lounge.
Whilst I am not a great fan of Rail magazine the article by Barry Doe is well worth a read and highlights many of the issues that have already been discussed on this forum.
Blinkbonny
Member
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I should imagine any business could aspire to offer a better service by tripling their prices.
This is what has effectively happened for me with Avanti and as a result I just don't travel with them - despite sticking with them during their absolutely dire offering during the epidemic.
This is what has effectively happened for me with Avanti and as a result I just don't travel with them - despite sticking with them during their absolutely dire offering during the epidemic.
Deafdoggie
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At the loss of meat options. There really isn't much for meat eaters in the day.
Ramming all the first class passengers into K and a little of J won't make them feel valued either.
Does anyone remember how long virgin wc kept their 3 class train - purple, blue and gold zones before they went back to std and 1st class? Having just booked SP, the prices seem very similar to the old 1st class, so would everyone say Avanti have just “withdrawn” the cheaper 1st class advance tickets and “redesignated” them as SP ones?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It didn't last long, but probably at least a year. The problem with that attempt was that the "middle class" used both Standard and First Class coaches.
And it was withdrawn by Chris Green when he became MD.
Incidentally and coincidently the same man who has spoken negatively about the introduction of the three class system by Avanti.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
An excellent railwayman, but only one person, so while he seems to be idolised he isn't necessarily right. Three class systems are used on many railways elsewhere and most long haul airlines.
Only one person but to be fair his opinion is likely to be of more value than that of most individuals on this forum. And ditto Barry Doe.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The people (collectively) whose views are most important are the consumers, and specifically whether the effect of it on their spending is such that Avanti makes more money than with the traditional arrangement.
Grumpy Git
On Moderation
I used Avanti First a couple of times pre-pandemic on evening services out of Euston and was never offered anything other than the awful cheese and biscuits! I thought the other menu options were figments of my imagination.
Pretty much. I think a lot of the arguement is about whether that's a good thing or not.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I wonder if some of this is down to who uses Advances and who doesn't? I very rarely do, so I love SP because it offers me an affordable walk-up way to have a First Class seat on a weekday as per Weekend First, at a total price I consider reasonable (around 1.5 times the Standard fare which reflects the amount of extra floorspace taken up per seat). I'd be quite happy if the same upgrades were charged with it being one class, but I'm not up for paying more for freebies I don't want.
I take nothing Mr Doe says seriously after an incident in which a complaint went in and he brazenly lied about the conversation we had onboard the train and what was or was not being served or was available.
Vespa
Established Member
I refer you to the comments subsequent to our last, my opinion on the dire standards of Avanti is much repeated by others.
The inability to see to what seat is available on a graphic representation of a train carriage is not available, Virgin had this and it was very useful as you can have an overview of what the seats are like in relation to windows, toilets and luggage racks.
On the seat picker thing, I recently needed to book using my Android 7 phone and the graphic would not render correctly. The screen was a complete mess and nothing could be selected.
Instead, I let the system pick the seats for me. When I expressed a preference for two forward-facing seats, it allocated rear-facing. When I tried again without expressing a preference, it allocated two forward-facing. That's happened to me a few times.
Delay Repay is another issue with Avanti. Every case now requires at least one appeal to get what is due. And when they declassified a train and downgraded me from my first-class seat to standing, all they did was refund the difference between what I paid and some pretty high, standard-class fare that doesn't exist. Virgin would have paid out compensation too, and rightfully so.
Instead, I let the system pick the seats for me. When I expressed a preference for two forward-facing seats, it allocated rear-facing. When I tried again without expressing a preference, it allocated two forward-facing. That's happened to me a few times.
Delay Repay is another issue with Avanti. Every case now requires at least one appeal to get what is due. And when they declassified a train and downgraded me from my first-class seat to standing, all they did was refund the difference between what I paid and some pretty high, standard-class fare that doesn't exist. Virgin would have paid out compensation too, and rightfully so.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
And sometimes they pay you too much with no means of returning it despite you having selected the correct level! I donated the balance to charity, FWIW, though if you claim often I could see it making sense to keep it on the basis that others will be underpaid. I remember a similar situation with Subway sandwich shops charging me wrongly (both ways) and decided to give up arguing and let it average out.
The payment should be to the same level of Standard Advance, or to the cheapest valid Standard walk-up ticket for that train if it's a walk-up (or half of it in case of a return).
Sentinel
Member
Sorry, the train / coach seat graphics showing what is, or is not, available are available on the Avanti website. You just don’t seem to be able to use it. Book a ticket, ask for a seat reservation, it gives you one, then if you want to change it, click on the big bar that says “Seat Selector”. Can’t you do this?
For what it’s worth I’ve travelled both Standard Premium and in First this month with Avanti.
Joining at Stafford this morning up to Liverpool I had a seat reserved in K - it’s just me and one other chap in here.
In Virgin days you’d have been lucky to be offered food at all on this run, and there were many occasions when the drinks didn’t materialise either.
I was greeted at the door to coach K, offered food and drinks immediately after we’d left and the coffee was served within a minute. Plates, cups and rubbish cleared as soon as they were done with. Much more attentive service than Avanti could’ve provided over 3/4 carriages of First.
So for me, the introduction of SP isn’t actually a bad thing - the ambience has still been nice when I’ve used it. Of course, YMMV!
Oh and the seat reservations on here are working again
Joining at Stafford this morning up to Liverpool I had a seat reserved in K - it’s just me and one other chap in here.
In Virgin days you’d have been lucky to be offered food at all on this run, and there were many occasions when the drinks didn’t materialise either.
I was greeted at the door to coach K, offered food and drinks immediately after we’d left and the coffee was served within a minute. Plates, cups and rubbish cleared as soon as they were done with. Much more attentive service than Avanti could’ve provided over 3/4 carriages of First.
So for me, the introduction of SP isn’t actually a bad thing - the ambience has still been nice when I’ve used it. Of course, YMMV!
Oh and the seat reservations on here are working again
Used standard premium on last 2 trips to Scotland. Think it's a good idea myself, 4 first class carriages seems a bit excessive on afternoon trains. I would have presumed that avanti would be a bit more dynamic with the implementation. Overall a good idea, that if implemented slightly better could catch on. Lots of trains carting around fresh air in first at certain times of day, makes sense to utilise this space for extra revenue
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