Ayr Station Hotel Fire 28/05/2023 and now on fire again 25/09/2023

[380101]

NR tweeted a few minutes ago that they are now able to access the site to check for any damage to their infrastructure. The position should become clearer overnight.

At least 3 overhead line stantions are actually behind the white cover, where the fire is still burning away on all floors of the building. Most NR will be able to do is stand on platform 4 and have a look.

 

[Strathclyder]

Indeed. Perhaps the whole lot should be demolished and bus shelters put in their place?

The council likely would have flattened it by now, were it not for the owner not being a UK resident and therefore being able to blithely ignore any and all CPOs issued against him, which is why this has been allowed to drag on for so long (not the first such case in Western Scotland and it won't be the last) at the expense of the station's safety and usabilty.

I should make it clear I'm not advocating for a brick-by-brick new build exactly resembling the hotel (apart from anything else, far too expensive), but something more substantial than a couple bus shelters as permanent replacements I think is in order here. This has gone on long enough and the long-suffering users of the line/station and the people of Ayr as a whole deserve to be able to move on from this utter fisaco and have a station that's safe, accessible and actually usable.

Can see Stagecoach's X77 having a uptick in passenger numbers going forward, what with trains to/from Ayr (not to mention Stranraer) likely not possible for the foreseeable future.

 

[MadMac]

At least 3 overhead line stantions are actually behind the white cover, where the fire is still burning away on all floors of the building. Most NR will be able to do is stand on platform 4 and have a look.

NR now indicating via Twitter/X that they do not expect to run services into Ayr tomorrow.

 

[hexagon789]

NR tweeted a few minutes ago that they are now able to access the site to check for any damage to their infrastructure. The position should become clearer overnight.

Thanks

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can see Stagecoach's X77 having a uptick in passenger numbers going forward, what with trains to/from Ayr (not to mention Stranraer) likely not possible for the foreseeable future.

If it all falls down later tonight, I suspect the service won't be disrupted for that long, even if they do have to leave the OHLE isolated and run DMUs.

 

[fisher2511]

Is there any reason why they can’t run trains further than Kilwinning? Surely there must be somewhere like Newton On Ayr with reversing facilities.

 

[MadMac]

If it all falls down later tonight, I suspect the service won't be disrupted for that long, even if they do have to leave the OHLE isolated and run DMUs.

Problem with that is getting the DMUs and staff with the relevant combination of traction and route knowledge.

 

[Ayrshire Roy]

Is there any reason why they can’t run trains further than Kilwinning? Surely there must be somewhere like Newton On Ayr with reversing facilities.

Although they could use one of the platforms at Newton on Ayr as the neutral section is under the bridge, I don't know if the North end of Falkland Yards cross over is electrified.

 

[Parallel]

Is there any reason why they can’t run trains further than Kilwinning? Surely there must be somewhere like Newton On Ayr with reversing facilities.

It looked like there were many cancellations to Ardrossan Harbour and Largs earlier too due to ‘a fire on property near the railway’. Is it something to do with staff not being able to access the Ayr depot?

 

[hexagon789]

It looked like there were many cancellations to Ardrossan Harbour and Largs earlier too due to ‘a fire on property near the railway’. Is it something to do with staff not being able to access the Ayr depot?

My first thought was power supply sections - what can be isolated at the flick of a switch as opposed to requiring more in-depth intervention, while permitting trains to run outwith.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Problem with that is getting the DMUs and staff with the relevant combination of traction and route knowledge.

There will be crews who sign both the route and 156s for the Stranraer service, though it will likely mean quite a thin service.

 

[MadMac]

Is there any reason why they can’t run trains further than Kilwinning? Surely there must be somewhere like Newton On Ayr with reversing facilities.

This came up with the previous fire in May. The remote shutdown takes out everything beyond and apparently, going by reports of people on stranded trains, including Kilwinning. They can manually isolate a smaller area, but that takes time and personnel.

 

[hexagon789]

This came up with the previous fire in May. The remote shutdown takes out everything beyond and apparently, going by reports of people on stranded trains, including Kilwinning. They can manually isolate a smaller area, but that takes time and personnel.

That ties in with the way that I thought it worked.

 

[380101]

If it all falls down later tonight, I suspect the service won't be disrupted for that long, even if they do have to leave the OHLE isolated and run DMUs.

The scaffolding, now severely heat affected, is sitting on platform 3 and until it's either inspected for structural integrity or removed, there will be no train movements into or out of the station.

Back in 2018 we weren't even allowed to walk down platform 3 to get to the yard to get sets out. If the station is shut for the immediate future, we'll probably be turning in Falkland yard again and starting/terminating services at Prestwick Town.

Problem with that is getting the DMUs and staff with the relevant combination of traction and route knowledge.

All Ayr drivers and Conductors sign the routes and 156s, and Glasgow Central link 2 drivers sign Ayr - Glasgow and 156s also, so no issues with crewing any dmu services.

 

[MadMac]

ScotRail now reporting disruption ongoing until 0900 on Wednesday.

 

[Strathclyder]

Problem with that is getting the DMUs and staff with the relevant combination of traction and route knowledge.

And that's if there are enough such DMUs floating around spare to run anything upwards of 1-2 trains per hour. ScotRail isn't exactly flush with spare DMUs at the moment.

I suspect services will be terminate/start short (Prestwick Town is most likely as @380101 notes above) with sets being turned at Falkland Yard if Ayr station is inaccessible (which, given the scale of the fire, is very likely).

 

[Sonik]

If it all falls down later tonight, I suspect the service won't be disrupted for that long, even if they do have to leave the OHLE isolated and run DMUs.

I'm not a legal expert but I'm pretty sure the buildings owner's (or their insurers) will be liable for any disruption.

And while still a publicly funded organisation, NR undoubtedly have considerably more resources than the local council to pursue it. So that ought to motivate people wherever they may be based.

 

[d70g]

A fascinating look inside (pre-fire, obviously) for those who've never seen it. https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/threads/station-hotel-ayr-august-2020.126053/

South Ayrshire Council's lack of power - both legislative restrictions and lack of money - have been well documented in this thread. But what does surprise me is that Network Rail have had a long-standing fire risk literally hanging over the track for years; have they had the power to intervene?

 

[Crossover]

Are any units stranded around Ayr (I believe there is one at Stranraer) or did they all get out? I did see one arrival at Ayr around half 5 then resumed service a couple of stops away at it’s booked time so I presume at the first sign of the fire they got the unit the hell outta there!

 

[Ashley Hill]

Somebody really wants it gone. Perhaps it finally is time to pull the old girl down. Prolonging the issue will just lead to more fires until it’s totally beyond help.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Are any units stranded around Ayr (I believe there is one at Stranraer) or did they all get out? I did see one arrival at Ayr around half 5 then resumed service a couple of stops away at it’s booked time so I presume at the first sign of the fire they got the unit the hell outta there!

Traksy shows a 4 car unit stabled in Largs, with two more on their way (22:45 and 23:14) from Glasgow.

According to RTT a few services terminated short heading Westbound at Kilwinning or Lochwinnoch, presumably these all returned back to Glasgow. The majority of units will probably all be in Shields, Corkerhill or Central.

 

[Bill57p9]

Are any units stranded around Ayr (I believe there is one at Stranraer) or did they all get out? I did see one arrival at Ayr around half 5 then resumed service a couple of stops away at it’s booked time so I presume at the first sign of the fire they got the unit the hell outta there!

It would appear that 156495 and 156503 are south of Ayr, which at least gives an option to provide a service between Stranraer and Girvan.

Just to be clear (has been hinted above), when Ayr station last closed thanks to this hotel, services from Glasgow terminated at Prestwick Town and then reversed in Falkland Yard. So yes, the crossover is electrified. I do believe though that the line previously used for reversing is now out of use.

I'm not a legal expert but I'm pretty sure the buildings owner's (or their insurers) will be liable for any disruption.

And while still a publicly funded organisation, NR undoubtedly have considerably more resources than the local council to pursue it. So that ought to motivate people wherever they may be based.

The problem has been though that the owner is outwith the UK and has not engaged, so not entirely sure how they could be pursued for their liabilities.
(I am of the view that this sort of behaviour should be discouraged by allowing UK courts to confiscate assets in these circumstances. And yes, I do appreciate that Scottish Courts are completely independent of England & Wales).

 

[380101]

Picture from social media showing the scale of the fire. The white sheeting has inadvertently contributed to the devastation by preventing the fire fighters from getting any decent amount of water onto the flames and also channelled the strong southerly wind to help fan the flames.

Have also seen mention that the north wing of the building is now ablaze.

 

[MadMac]

And that's if there are enough such DMUs floating around spare to run anything upwards of 1-2 trains per hour. ScotRail isn't exactly flush with spare DMUs at the moment.

I suspect services will be terminate/start short (Prestwick Town is most likely as @380101 notes above) with sets being turned at Falkland Yard if Ayr station is inaccessible (which, given the scale of the fire, is very likely).

Game plan for Tuesday per the ScotRail Journey Check is to turn trains at Irvine: Stranraer services will run to/from Girvan.

 

[The exile]

The problem has been thought that the owner is outwith the UK and has not engaged, so not entirely sure how they could be pursued for their liabilities.
(I am of the view that this sort of behaviour should be discouraged by allowing UK courts to confiscate assets in these circumstances. And yes, I do appreciate that Scottish Courts are completely independent of England & Wales).

Immediate seizure of all assets should be pursued in all cases involving non-residents - only returnable (if above the costs involved) if the owner turns up in person to claim them within a reasonable period.

 

[ld0595]

Network Rail now expecting no services to/from Ayr until tomorrow.

 

[snookertam]

Network Rail now expecting no services to/from Ayr until tomorrow.

And that is exceptionally optimistic from them. This will be several weeks minimum.

 

[Falcon1200]

Isn't it funny how listed buildings seem to catch fire when someone wants to demolish them?

Is (or perhaps was) this building actually listed though?

Although they could use one of the platforms at Newton on Ayr as the neutral section is under the bridge,

The neutral section at Tams Brig, Newton-on-Ayr, is purely because of the low bridge and does not IIRC actually separate overhead line sections.

My first thought was power supply sections - what can be isolated at the flick of a switch as opposed to requiring more in-depth intervention, while permitting trains to run outwith.

Yes; An emergency switch off, which would be the case here initially, must be neutral section to neutral section, or as in this case neutral section to the end of the line at Ayr; And the relevant neutral section is Lochwinnoch! Once staff have attended, carried out switching and erected earths, the affected area is reduced.

 

[rossco156433]

"Two male youths, aged 17 and 13, have been arrested and charged in connection with fire-raising following station hotel fire". A 17 year old was charged with arson for the earlier fire, wonder if it's the same youth?

 

[Morayshire]

"Two male youths, aged 17 and 13, have been arrested and charged in connection with fire-raising following station hotel fire". A 17 year old was charged with arson for the earlier fire, wonder if it's the same youth?

Now on BBC as well

Ayr station hotel fire: Two teenagers charged with starting blaze

Two teenagers have been charged with fire-raising after a blaze at the derelict Ayr Station Hotel.
Firefighters were still tackling the blaze on Tuesday morning after the alarm was raised at about 17:30 on Monday.
Rail services remain disrupted through Ayr and roads have been closed for public safety.
Police said two teenage boys, aged 17 and 13, had been arrested and charged in connection with the incident.
They will be both be reported to the relevant authorities and further inquiries are ongoing.

Sad to see an old building go but not unexpected really.