BDLhouston
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Discussion for the future of rolling stock on the ayrshire coastline
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Ayrshire coastline rolling stock discussion
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Indeed, ScotRail will likely lose some classes of stock in the medium term (5-10 years), but the 380’s almost certainly won’t be among them.
They work very well on the Ayrshire coast and will likely do so for at least the next decade.
Beyond that, probably EMU’s for most services, with BMU’s for Stranraer trains, but that’s just speculative.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
Perfect for this thread then, seeing as this is the Speculative Discussion subforum
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Perfect for this thread then, seeing as this is the Speculative Discussion subforum
Gods must gave mopped it, it was in Traction & Rolling Stock earlier.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
In English please?
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Sorry, fixed it noeIn English please?
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
Not sure fixed is quite the right word, but thanks for the explanation, I get the gist
hexagon789
Veteran Member
*Sigh* , I do hate autocorrect with a passion sometimesNot sure fixed is quite the right word, but thanks for the explanation, I get the gist
*Mods
Sprinter156
Member
I'm guessing Glasgow/Kilmarnock - Girvan/Stranraer will have 158's for a while once the 156's go. Electric services will probably stay 380's only for many years to come.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
It's quite possible the Girvan/Stranraer services go straight from 156s to the replacement stock.
Potentially Girvan could even be electrified in the future, I think it could sustain an hourly extension of a Glasgow-Ayr; Stranraer would then quite possibly go to just a few shuttles to/from Girvan - ideally connecting into a train from Girvan to Glasgow.
I’m guessing the eventual plan is entire GSW electrification (bar Ayr - Stranraer?)
I understand the platforms don’t suit 158’s at the moment due to the clearance needed for the doors? May be totally wrong on that though!
I understand the platforms don’t suit 158’s at the moment due to the clearance needed for the doors? May be totally wrong on that though!
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Given that originally (late-80s) 158s were planned to run the Glasgow-Paisley/Kilmarnock-Ayr-Stranraer/Dumfries-Carlisle services I assume something could/would've been sorted.
Under the decarbonisation plan as published in August 2020, Ayr-Girvan would be wired, but that may change.
Sprinter156
Member
I found a publication posted back in May 2022 suggesting that
(page 125)
In the 2020 decarbonisation plan, Ayr-Girvan was to be electrified by 2045 so hopefully this means they're bringing it forward a bit.
And also
(page 124)
Also mentions Class 170's being cascaded to SW Scotland by 2030. It's quite interesting, hope it all comes to fruition.
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Falcon1200
Established Member
Going on past experience, when Scotrail do get some new EMUs might these be allocated to Ayrshire with the 380s cascaded elsewhere, as happened with the Class 318s and 334s?
hexagon789
Veteran Member
The next lot will be to replace the 318/320s on Argyle/Cathcart/Inverclyde/Barrhead & EK by then. Followed next by bi-modal units with hybrid battery power for Fife etc, those won't be going to Ayrshire.
I don't see either of those going to Ayrshire.
I don't see either of those going to Ayrshire.
the 380s are well suited to the routes. I could perhaps see a couple of battery hybrids being borrowed to do the Ardrossan and Largs routes during times of bad weather at Saltcoats so the power can be turned off.
BDLhouston
Member
Services from kilmarnock-girvan go via ayrshire so ayrshire might see the new bi-mode or hydrogen stock
hexagon789
Veteran Member
The county quite probably yes; the Ayrshire Main Line was what I thought was the subject of the thread, sorry.
Why? The 380 fleet is more than sufficient for Ayrshire and Inverclyde to the extent that some get used elsewhere. I can't see any benefit in running 385s to Ayr, Ardrossan or Largs.
If the 380s have another outage like they did last time, then 385s could run a skeleton service on those routes.
Sprinter156
Member
I remember it being mentioned on here but i believe it was rumours and speculation rather than actual conformation.
Falcon1200
Established Member
One would have to ask, what would be the reason, and the benefits? Operating a service with a single fleet of compatible units is by far the most efficient means, and there would not be sufficient Class 385 units to run the full service.
I don't think there's any suggestion of the 385s taking over the Ayrshire routes. I do think running 8-car 385 on peak services would be a slight increase in seating capacity though (16?). Whether that justifies training the staff on the class and the expense that entails? I doubt it.
adrock1976
Established Member
My own thoughts is that I cannot see 158s running to Stranraer when the 156s are retired.
The 156s were built 1987-88, and the 158s were built 1989-92 meaning that they are not much younger.
When Paisley Gilmour Street - Largs/Ardrossan/Ayr was electrified in 1986, BR built a fleet of Class 318 trains for those routes, and in 1990 the Class 320s too. I think the former Anglia 321s were built 1988-90, which Scotrail does have some that have been shortened to 3 coach sets.
In 2002-03 I remember the 334s running on the Ayrshire and Inverclyde routes, then subsequently transferred to run on the Queen Street/Central low level routes as the 303s had been retired. When the 380s were introduced in 2010 and after various faults were ironed out, the 334s went to the Helensburgh/Milngavie - Edinburgh via Airdrie route.
As the 318s, 320s, and converted 321s will be the first to approach 40 years in service, I believe that these will go first and a fleet of electric bimode operation trains (whether small diesel engine, hydro, or battery as the second source of power) will be considered bearing in mind the electrification of East Kilbride, Barrhead, and hopefully to Kilmarnock/Barassie (maybe also Gretna Jct - Dumfries as Carlisle - Dumfries is every 60 minutes).
Personally, I would prefer the Girvan - Stranraer section to be mothballed, but compensated with a rail replacement bus service integrated in the railway ticketing system, which would also connect intermediate settlements (e.g. Pinwherry, and Cairnryan) to the railway network with not so much operating cost compared with the present railway line. This replacement bus is similar to Peterborough - Kings Lynn, and Malton - Whitby.
The 156s were built 1987-88, and the 158s were built 1989-92 meaning that they are not much younger.
When Paisley Gilmour Street - Largs/Ardrossan/Ayr was electrified in 1986, BR built a fleet of Class 318 trains for those routes, and in 1990 the Class 320s too. I think the former Anglia 321s were built 1988-90, which Scotrail does have some that have been shortened to 3 coach sets.
In 2002-03 I remember the 334s running on the Ayrshire and Inverclyde routes, then subsequently transferred to run on the Queen Street/Central low level routes as the 303s had been retired. When the 380s were introduced in 2010 and after various faults were ironed out, the 334s went to the Helensburgh/Milngavie - Edinburgh via Airdrie route.
As the 318s, 320s, and converted 321s will be the first to approach 40 years in service, I believe that these will go first and a fleet of electric bimode operation trains (whether small diesel engine, hydro, or battery as the second source of power) will be considered bearing in mind the electrification of East Kilbride, Barrhead, and hopefully to Kilmarnock/Barassie (maybe also Gretna Jct - Dumfries as Carlisle - Dumfries is every 60 minutes).
Personally, I would prefer the Girvan - Stranraer section to be mothballed, but compensated with a rail replacement bus service integrated in the railway ticketing system, which would also connect intermediate settlements (e.g. Pinwherry, and Cairnryan) to the railway network with not so much operating cost compared with the present railway line. This replacement bus is similar to Peterborough - Kings Lynn, and Malton - Whitby.
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