Bachmann GB quarterly announcements.

[Iskra]

Serves him right - the main graphic on youtube when you has a stack of video listed on the screen looked like real thing regardless of how the contents of the video were sourced. Copyrighhgt regislation is quite strict.

Another incorrect matter in a Youtube Video is Sam Trains one on costs of the hobby where he claims sellers are price fixing. Sorry completely wrong - the maker of a new item is entitled for 6 months to limit the level of discount. So for I think 8 weeks Bachmann for example limit it to 15% hence a number of sellers immediately discounting by 15%.

I thought Sam’s point about Bachmann suddenly being in a position to offer a reasonably-priced class 31 was very pertinent.

Technicalities and jargon aside, we can all see that the initial asking prices asked by Bachmann are ludicrous. They aren’t making themselves look good, and they are appearing extremely complacent. Accurascale are going to wipe the floor with them, and I’m all for it.

 

[Class15]

I thought Sam’s point about Bachmann suddenly being in a position to offer a reasonably-priced class 31 was very pertinent.

Technicalities and jargon aside, we can all see that the initial asking prices asked by Bachmann are ludicrous. They aren’t making themselves look good, and they are appearing extremely complacent. Accurascale are going to wipe the floor with them, and I’m all for it.

I have plenty of Bachmann models, and I have always been very impressed by the quality of Bachmann’s products. The Class 90 is an amazing model, and it’s a pity it’s so expensive. I also have a couple of 66s, which I thought were excellent. As well as 46 and 20 from their slightly older ranges. I’m not sure how good these Accurascale models are, but at the minute I’m sticking with Bachmann. If I do get a 31, it’ll be theirs.

 

[SCH117X]

On the subject of Bachmann v Accurascale has anyone got one of new Bachmann 37s ? I have an Accurascale one which has only so far been run round a running in oval for 2 hours and had its pipework and ploughs added to one end and partly to the other. So far two of the bogie chains have come undone, Accurascale have them fitted with a piece of twisted wire at either end that plainly on two of them was not twisted sufficiently. Wondered if Bachmanns are fitted more robustly. As it is I decided they are a detail too far and removed those for storage with the rest of the unused accessory bits.

Bachmann / Kaders pricing is normally based on how complex a model is to assemble. It might be the 31 has been designed more so than previous models to keep the cost down.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Serves him right - the main graphic on youtube when you has a stack of video listed on the screen looked like real thing regardless of how the contents of the video were sourced. Copyrighhgt regislation is quite strict.

Copyright law allows an exemption for reviews and, more pertinently for the video in question, parody and satire. The Locomotion Motion "Roast" videos were quite clearly satirical. Sam of Sam's Trains is a very experienced YouTuber and gave a very good summation of how copyright law should be applied. You can't claim a breach of copyright because your feelings were hurt.

On the subject of Bachmann v Accurascale has anyone got one of new Bachmann 37s ? I have an Accurascale one which has only so far been run round a running in oval for 2 hours and had its pipework and ploughs added to one end and partly to the other. So far two of the bogie chains have come undone, Accurascale have them fitted with a piece of twisted wire at either end that plainly on two of them was not twisted sufficiently. Wondered if Bachmanns are fitted more robustly. As it is I decided they are a detail too far and removed those for storage with the rest of the unused accessory bits.

Bachmann / Kaders pricing is normally based on how complex a model is to assemble. It might be the 31 has been designed more so than previous models to keep the cost down.

I bought Bachmann's 37430 last year, because that loco in that livery is a favourite of mine. I ordered the Sound fitted deluxe version from Derails Models, they tested it before dispatch and rang me to say it was defective (iirc they said it was running too slow with barely any torque) and they'd liase with Bachmann to sort it out. It ended up being delayed by a few weeks as a result but when it arrived whatever problems it had were fixed. It looks great, sounds brilliant and runs really well... and so it should given the price!

 

[A0wen]

I thought Sam’s point about Bachmann suddenly being in a position to offer a reasonably-priced class 31 was very pertinent.

Technicalities and jargon aside, we can all see that the initial asking prices asked by Bachmann are ludicrous. They aren’t making themselves look good, and they are appearing extremely complacent. Accurascale are going to wipe the floor with them, and I’m all for it.

Bit in bold - Be a bit careful what you wish for. Accurascale's business model is to sell directly, so their "lower cost" is by cutting out the margin the Model Shops would usually make and passing some of it onto the end consumer. That's fine if you're happy to buy direct, but don't then complain when in 5 years time your little local model shop has gone, which is what will happen.

It's also worth noting that it's impossible to see if Accurascale are even profitable - their UK arm is set up as a small company so only needs to file the most basic information (which doesn't include a P&L) to Companies House. Their parent company, Irish Model Railways, are based in the Republic of Ireland and unlike the UK where you can look up any company's information online at Companies House for free, in the ROI such information is chargeable.

Bachmann's accounts are online and viewable by anyone https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02392907 and the company is running about a 3% profit margin (£ 513k profit on £ 17,931,000 turnover) FY ending 31/12/2022.

Now Bachmann are providing support to the retailers, in terms of spares, point of sale, merchandising and all of those other things, but they all have a cost. If you don't want those things, then they can stop quickly enough, but that will kill the model shop trade.

 

[sprinterguy]

Bit in bold - Be a bit careful what you wish for. Accurascale's business model is to sell directly, so their "lower cost" is by cutting out the margin the Model Shops would usually make and passing some of it onto the end consumer. That's fine if you're happy to buy direct, but don't then complain when in 5 years time your little local model shop has gone, which is what will happen.

Accurascale sell through a retail network of around 130 stockists in Great Britain. A quick browse of their stockist locator suggests at least the majority of these have a physical shop.

That's a little under a third of Bachmann's distribution network over the same area, but not bad for a fairly new start-up against one of the countries' most established model railway brands.

 

[A0wen]

Accurascale sell through a retail network of around 130 stockists in Great Britain. A quick browse of their stockist locator suggests at least the majority of these have a physical shop.

That's a little under a third of Bachmann's distribution network over the same area, but not bad for a fairly new start-up against one of the countries' most established model railway brands.

A slight misnomer there, because neither runs a network of dealers. All the model shops are small independents, or very small chains who choose which ranges to stock.

So if Accurascale are a strong product line why have only 1/3rd of Bachmann's stockists chosen to go with Accurascale as well ? There aren't "exclusivity" agreements which prevent a stockist selling multiple brands.

The reality is Accurascale have focused on the larger outlets and their pricing means the retailer's margins will be much lower, probably to the extent of it being uneconomic for many of the smaller outlets to stock them.

 

[SCH117X]

Accurascale sell through a retail network of around 130 stockists in Great Britain. A quick browse of their stockist locator suggests at least the majority of these have a physical shop.

That's a little under a third of Bachmann's distribution network over the same area, but not bad for a fairly new start-up against one of the countries' most established model railway brands.

And that possibly adds to the reasons why Bachmann did not pull their 31 in that over two thirds of their stockists it will be the only one available, plus many stockists of both have already sold out on many of the Accurascale ones. Not sure what percentage of railway modellers pre order models, its something I have only done rarely as I prefer to read reviews of a model first to see if its worth the £££. It also seems to be something as a general thing rather unique to this hobby.

Unfortunately early reviews of the Hornby Rocket failed to say how rediculously fragile the loco tender wiring is with what really looks like such hashed togther prototype arrangement which completely failed to have any handling tests undertaken on it. There is no space in the loco body for any excess wiring, and no cable clamp, meaning the wires to the tender are in tension and even seeking to replace them with my own resulted in my own wires snapping.

 

[Iskra]

A slight misnomer there, because neither runs a network of dealers. All the model shops are small independents, or very small chains who choose which ranges to stock.

So if Accurascale are a strong product line why have only 1/3rd of Bachmann's stockists chosen to go with Accurascale as well ? There aren't "exclusivity" agreements which prevent a stockist selling multiple brands.

The reality is Accurascale have focused on the larger outlets and their pricing means the retailer's margins will be much lower, probably to the extent of it being uneconomic for many of the smaller outlets to stock them.

Yes, but if someone visits a model shop (or their website) to buy an AS loco, they are likely to pick up something else at the same time, or buy something else from the same place in the future. If you’re the 1/3 of shops, it gives you a product the other 2/3 of shops don’t offer, so an additional reason to visit.

 

[A0wen]

Yes, but if someone visits a model shop (or their website) to buy an AS loco, they are likely to pick up something else at the same time, or buy something else from the same place in the future. If you’re the 1/3 of shops, it gives you a product the other 2/3 of shops don’t offer, so an additional reason to visit.

With respect, I think you're missing the point. Accurascale's approach is clearly about not supporting the Model shop trade - AS's production costs are not going to be significantly different to Bachmann or Hornby's, so if they are selling at a lower cost they're doing it by reducing the margin the retailers would usually have, which means either retailers can't "afford" to sell AS's products or, for those who do, they have to sell more just to make the same profit.

If the bulk of their sales are direct i.e. without the retailer, then all AS are doing is pocketing most of the margin the retailer would have made and not providing the support to the retail trade which ultimately is to the detriment of the future of the retail trade.

 

[sprinterguy]

A slight misnomer there, because neither runs a network of dealers. All the model shops are small independents, or very small chains who choose which ranges to stock.

So if Accurascale are a strong product line why have only 1/3rd of Bachmann's stockists chosen to go with Accurascale as well ? There aren't "exclusivity" agreements which prevent a stockist selling multiple brands.

The reality is Accurascale have focused on the larger outlets and their pricing means the retailer's margins will be much lower, probably to the extent of it being uneconomic for many of the smaller outlets to stock them.

I'm just noting that it's inaccurate to say that Accurascale's business model is entirely predicated on direct sales. I'm uncertain what proportion of their current number of retailers that Bachmann had access to after a comparable five years of trading, and it's not possible to say where Accurascale might be if they survive another thirty years to put them where Bachmann are now.

Though given the increasing trend towards online sales, it seems a certainty that there will be further reduction in the number of independent, bricks and mortar model shops over the next five, ten or thirty years, regardless of the ebb and flow of the model manufacturers themselves. While the recent closure of Hattons indicates that even the most established and respected names aren't safe, I would assume that the larger outlets, with a greater online presence, might stand a greater chance of survival.

 

[A0wen]

I'm just noting that it's inaccurate to say that Accurascale's business model is entirely predicated on direct sales. I'm uncertain what proportion of their current number of retailers that Bachmann had access to after a comparable five years of trading, and it's not possible to say where Accurascale might be if they survive another thirty years to put them where Bachmann are now.

Though given the increasing trend towards online sales, it seems a certainty that there will be further reduction in the number of independent, bricks and mortar model shops over the next five, ten or thirty years, regardless of the ebb and flow of the model manufacturers themselves. While the recent closure of Hattons indicates that even the most established and respected names aren't safe, I would assume that the larger outlets, with a greater online presence, might stand a greater chance of survival.

Bachmann was formed over 30 years ago as you say, at which time there were far more model shops, along with a number of Toy chains who also stocked their products e.g. Beatties, Zodiac Toys. So had a far bigger pool of potential customers even then. Given there are much fewer, you might have expected Accurascale to have secured far more than they have - that they haven't is almost certainly down to their model, which is more selling direct at a lower price, by squeezing the margin out. As I keep saying, if people are happy that buying Accurascale means in 5 years time their local model shop is gone, then that's fine, but it's a bit of a narrow view IMO. What it will ultimately do is lead to increased prices on the multitude of small 'widgets' and spares that you currently pick up for a couple of pounds in your local model shop, because the online sellers will have to add post and packing onto the cost - so that £ 2 tube of glue will become a £ 3 or £ 4 tube of glue.

I wouldn't read too much into Hatton's closure as a decline in the hobby - yes they were a "well known" store, but you might need to look at why they've shut up shop having already abandoned 'bricks and mortar' almost a decade ago. That one's got more to do with strategy and direction of the director's.

 

[SCH117X]

Though given the increasing trend towards online sales, it seems a certainty that there will be further reduction in the number of independent, bricks and mortar model shops over the next five, ten or thirty years, regardless of the ebb and flow of the model manufacturers themselves. While the recent closure of Hattons indicates that even the most established and respected names aren't safe, I would assume that the larger outlets, with a greater online presence, might stand a greater chance of survival.

The hobby has seen stores/suppliers come and go all the time. Hattons got a reputation as being the supplier to many and at times made money out of that overcharging for items. The hobby has survived the loss of Railmail, Beatties and Modelzone to name three. My expenditure has normally been elsewhere anyway. I understand the main issue that has arisen is for those ordering from abroad where Hattons postage charge was far cheaper than other suppliers.

 

[A0wen]

The hobby has seen stores/suppliers come and go all the time. Hattons got a reputation as being the supplier to many and at times made money out of that overcharging for items. The hobby has survived the loss of Railmail, Beatties and Modelzone to name three. My expenditure has normally been elsewhere anyway. I understand the main issue that has arisen is for those ordering from abroad where Hattons postage charge was far cheaper than other suppliers.

Bit in bold - "survived" is an interesting word. What the loss of Beatties and Modelzone (and a couple of others) has done is mean the hobby gets far less exposure to potential new customers. For the "serious" modeller, that's fine, they probably weren't using those stores except in an emergency or if they had a special of some kind. But how does the hobby get new customers, particularly at the younger end of the market, when those specialists are "off the beaten track" if you'll pardon the pun.

 

[Iskra]

With respect, I think you're missing the point. Accurascale's approach is clearly about not supporting the Model shop trade - AS's production costs are not going to be significantly different to Bachmann or Hornby's, so if they are selling at a lower cost they're doing it by reducing the margin the retailers would usually have, which means either retailers can't "afford" to sell AS's products or, for those who do, they have to sell more just to make the same profit.

If the bulk of their sales are direct i.e. without the retailer, then all AS are doing is pocketing most of the margin the retailer would have made and not providing the support to the retail trade which ultimately is to the detriment of the future of the retail trade.

I'm not sure I agree, if they weren't interested in supporting model shops, they wouldn't sell through them at all. It would probably actually be easier to sell just directly. It doesn't matter if the margin on an AS model is small for a model shop, if it drives additional footfall (or clicks) to a model shop as they can make money on additional products and services with that sale.

 

[SCH117X]

Dapol, Hornby, KR, Rapido and Revolution also sell direct