Bendy buses

[MotCO]

I'm rather mystified by this. Since the front portion has a shorter wheelbase than a normal bus, and the rear portion is prevented by the articulation from cutting the corner, a bendy bus should cut corners much less than a normal one and be less dangerous to any cyclists on the inside.

The new Highway Code tells cyclists to use the middle of the lane and not the inside.

I'm not a bus driver, but I can imagine a 12m rigid will swing further out towards the middle of the road than a bendy, and the bendy trailer will follow the front of the bendy bus which will be closer to the kerb than an outstanding rigid bus. Therefore the bendy bus will be closer to the apex of a corner than a rigid bus.
Or maybe I'm completely wrong!

 

[PG]

Therefore the bendy bus will be closer to the apex of a corner than a rigid bus.

If the driver judges it correctly both nearside rear wheels should be the same distance from the apex. Of course there can be occasions when a misjudgement happens...

Anyone interested further can look up Swept Path Analysis though alternative uses for a couple of hours exist!

 

[RJ]

One other artic that made an appearance earlier this year is owned by Completely Coach Travel of Norwich who operate a 2004 Citaro G on rail replacement work. It's also been known to operate on contracted Sunday services around the city.

That one was sold to a dismantler last year.

 

[railwaytrack]

Does anyone know if Beaver Bus in Leicestershire still have theirs? I think they had at least six (or possibly even more) Mercedes Benz Citaro (not sure on the exact reg numbers of them) but i can not find any more recent photos? I think they were for school routes? Are these still in use?

 

[RJ]

Even if no cyclist was killed by one, they were, however, far and away the most frightening type of bus for cyclists. I know people who wouldn't use combined bus-and-cycle lanes where there were bendy-bus routes. I was run into the kerb by them quite a few times - in each case I wasn't hurt only because of my quick reactions and good brakes. They also damaged pavements on tight corners and came very very close to hitting a pedestrian on one such corner within my direct experience - no doubt it happened often at the spot concerned.

I'm not (to put it mildly) in general a fan of Boris Johnson. But I think that's no reason for me to refuse to acknowledge any occasional good things he did - and getting rid of bendy-buses was one of those things.



They certainly felt like it for cyclists in London!

Although nobody wants to come out and say it - it’s an exceptionally dangerous act when people position themselves between a large vehicle and kerb when it’s turning. As a cyclist, I never stop beside buses or lorries at lights or ride alongside them when they start moving away from lights. And consequently never been touched by one.

However some people absolutely insist on doing so as a matter of course. I would really like to try and understand the thought process of people who choose to stop between the axles of any large vehicle - especially the second and third of an artic. The only reasonable conclusion I could reach is that not everyone understands how vehicles move and the dangers they can pose. Or they make a conscious decision that the driver should be able to see them and are prepared to take that risk to save a bit of time - even though blind spots are a problem as old as vehicles themselves.

Large vehicles have large mirrors and an increasing number of aids to improve safety, but what good is any of that if people do something that’s inherently dangerous and end up in an unfortunate situation?

The powers that be don’t want to do anything to discourage people from getting on their bikes but to save lives it should be compulsory for people to demonstrate that they know enough to keep themselves safe to a reasonable degree when on the road - or outlaw

 

[Mikey C]

The reason stated for not using double deckers on city routes is that the stairs take up a lot of space and they spend longer at bus stops slowing down the routes. They are however being used on regional routes, mostly on routes where higher capacity is needed. (I.e. routes that should be operated by train.)

Have 3 doors and 2 staircases is you're worried about boarding time, as with the E500s (as used in Berlin) or indeed the Borismasters

The Berlin E500s have 80 seats, far more than a Bendy of the same length

 

[Bletchleyite]

However some people absolutely insist on doing so as a matter of course. I would really like to try and understand the thought process of people who choose to stop between the axles of any large vehicle - especially the second and third of an artic. The only reasonable conclusion I could reach is that not everyone understands how vehicles move and the dangers they can pose. Or they make a conscious decision that the driver should be able to see them and are prepared to take that risk to save a bit of time - even though blind spots are a problem as old as vehicles themselves.

In terms of many London cyclists, it's a view that they have the right to be there and so will be there.

However, there is no sense in a gravestone inscription thus: "Here lies Bob. He had the right of way." Thus, I agree, being alongside a large vehicle which looks like it may turn towards you is suicidally stupid. It's best avoided even in a car.

Have 3 doors and 2 staircases is you're worried about boarding time, as with the E500s (as used in Berlin) or indeed the Borismasters

The Berlin E500s have 80 seats, far more than a Bendy of the same length

It all depends what you're using buses for. If buses are used for what they're good at, short journeys from places of residence/businesses to the nearest rapid transit rail station, then bendies are better because their standee capacity is massive. See the "Red Arrows" for an example - taking those to rigid single deck was ideology over common sense.

 

[MotCO]

Thus, I agree, being alongside a large vehicle which looks like it may turn towards you is suicidally stupid. It's best avoided even in a car.

I always remember about 45 years ago an articulated lorry turning right into Vauxhall Bridge Road from the Pimlico one-way system. The lorry was in the middle lane, and a car tried to go past him in the right hand lane. The trailer squashed the car against the railings.

Since then, I've always given long vehicles the respect they deserve, particulary at junctions and roundabouts, always hanging back. Not only is it a case of self-preservation, but it probably makes the lorry or bus driver's life a bit easier.

 

[GusB]

I'm going to knock the cyclist versus bendybus diversion on the head. The thread has already begun to wobble slightly off-topic in that regard and I don't want to see it deviate into a wider discussion about individual behaviours.

 

[Strathclyder]

First Glasgow’s 9 was what I called “The Bendy Route” from 2007-2012, mainly because the route had loads of Wright Eclipse Fusion & Wright Fusion bendy buses (with some High-Floor Deckers, older Single-Deckers, and other Eclipse Buses to fill some gaps).

First Glasgow withdrew the last of it's artics - the few remaining V-GGB reg Wright Fusion bodied Volvo B10LAs left active - in May 2013, just before the SimpliCITY timetable change, whose fates varied as detailed by @Jordan Adam in post #93: some were transferred to Aberdeen for a few more years' service while the rest ended up going for scrap.

 

[JonasB]

Have 3 doors and 2 staircases is you're worried about boarding time, as with the E500s (as used in Berlin) or indeed the Borismasters

A bendy bus with 4 doors will probably be faster.

 

[railwaytrack]

A bendy bus with 4 doors will probably be faster.

In many parts of Mainland Europe (such as in the Czech Republic for an example) they have 5 door bendy buses and 4 door rigid buses in operation. For some reason in the UK we seem to like to have the minimum amount of doors possible. I know in London the bendy buses had a reputation for fare evasion but that could have been very easily sorted by changing the rules to allowing boarding of the bus via the front door only just like they did with the Borismaster buses a few years ago.

 

[JonasB]

For some reason in the UK we seem to like to have the minimum amount of doors possible.

That is something that always amazes me when I'm in the UK. Having buses with only one door seems like a great way to slow them down. Sure you gain a few extra seats but is it worth it?

 

[johncrossley]

That is something that always amazes me when I'm in the UK. Having buses with only one door seems like a great way to slow them down. Sure you gain a few extra seats but is it worth it?

They are obsessed with fare evasion.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

More doors equals less seats too, and it can be four seats missing per set of doors.

 

[theblackwatch]

One of the former Cardiff bendy buses is now based at Town & District Transport Trust's site in Lancashire. Last Saturday it took a trip to Harrogate, and I travelled on it from there to Skipton. It felt quite odd going over the A59 on it, and I was surprised how well it performed on the hills. I would add that it isn't something I'd fancy driving!

 

[mmh]

It all depends what you're using buses for. If buses are used for what they're good at, short journeys from places of residence/businesses to the nearest rapid transit rail station, then bendies are better because their standee capacity is massive. See the "Red Arrows" for an example - taking those to rigid single deck was ideology over common sense.

Did they actually have more real standing capacity than the buses used before and after them though? The buses used before the bendies had a very small number of seats, only in the raised section behind the central door, with a very large open standing area. The ones currently used have the same layout. The bendies only had such areas at the centre and rear doors, and while the official standee number no doubt included down the aisles, that makes for slower loading and unloading. Also from a passenger "comfort" point of view, the vertical swaying of a bendy at speed is far from enjoyable for someone standing.

 

[PG]

Did they actually have more real standing capacity than the buses used before and after them though?

I seem to recall that the standing capacity wasn't based upon the floor space available but upon the plated weight of the vehicle with each standee allocated a certain weight, IIRC 50kg. Thus standee capacity was [GVW (gross vehicle weight) - UW (unlaiden weight)] divided by 50.

Accommodating the official permitted number of standees in the available space was hardly ever achievable in reality!

 

[AlbertBeale]

I seem to recall that the standing capacity wasn't based upon the floor space available but upon the plated weight of the vehicle with each standee allocated a certain weight, IIRC 50kg. Thus standee capacity was [GVW (gross vehicle weight) - UW (unlaiden weight)] divided by 50.

Accommodating the official permitted number of standees in the available space was hardly ever achievable in reality!

But 50kg is about 8 stone in old money. Several generations ago it might have been reasonable to assume an average passenger weight as being around 8 stone - but these days? Surely not. Many people I encounter on buses these days are twice that! If loading numbers are based on that assumption of people's weight, then there will be many very overloaded buses going round... I certainly wouldn't want to be in a lift with a capacity based on that calculation!

 

[Bletchleyite]

But 50kg is about 8 stone in old money. Several generations ago it might have been reasonable to assume an average passenger weight as being around 8 stone - but these days? Surely not. Many people I encounter on buses these days are twice that! If loading numbers are based on that assumption of people's weight, then there will be many very overloaded buses going round... I certainly wouldn't want to be in a lift with a capacity based on that calculation!

It's common for lifts to use 65 or 75kg. I am two people by the former!

To be fair, it also takes children into account.

 

[PG]

But 50kg is about 8 stone in old money. Several generations ago it might have been reasonable to assume an average passenger weight as being around 8 stone - but these days? Surely not

Don't shoot the messenger, I didn't draft the Construction and Use regulations...

 

[MotCO]

Something at the back of my mind thought it had been increased to 80kg (12 stone -ish) several years ago. However, searching on line, https://www.iru.org/sites/default/files/2016-01/en-nea-bus-2007.pdf details EC Directive 97/27 put the limit per passenger at 68kgs (around 10.5 stone). However, the report also says that a survey identified the average weight at 75.6kg (around 12 stone)!

 

[47550]

Route One are reporting 24 hydrogen bendy buses are to be introduced to operate Walsall - Solihull (+100 further hydrogen deckers for the West Midlands). It isn't (quite) April 1st yet...

ZEBRA standard track: £198m for 943 zero-emission buses - routeone

£198m will go towards 943 zero-emission buses through 12 successful bidders to ZEBRA via its standard track mechanism, it has been confirmed.

www.route-one.net

West Midlands Combined Authority (WMCA): £30m towards 124 hydrogen fuel cell-electric buses. 100 of those will be double-deckers and 24 will be articulated examples for the Sprint bus rapid transit route between Walsall and Solihull

Mod note: please remember to add a relevant quote from any article you refer to. Thanks

 

[To the trains]

Have 3 doors and 2 staircases is you're worried about boarding time, as with the E500s (as used in Berlin) or indeed the Borismasters

The Berlin E500s have 80 seats, far more than a Bendy of the same length

Double deckers typically have more seats, but a lot less standing space because the stairs take up a lot of space and you can't stand on the top level

 

[SSmith2009]

Beaver Bus of Leicester are getting rid of their ex Stagecoach London Mercedes bendy buses

Understood to be going for scrap

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[Robertj21a]

Beaver Bus of Leicester are getting rid of their ex Stagecoach London Mercedes bendy buses

Understood to be going for scrap

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Already gone.

 

[RJ]

Brighton & Hove are selling their Citaro-Gs for a fixed price - if anyone wants one it's worth getting in touch with them.

Beaver Bus of Leicester are getting rid of their ex Stagecoach London Mercedes bendy buses

Understood to be going for scrap

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Not all being scrapped!

I'm rather mystified by this. Since the front portion has a shorter wheelbase than a normal bus, and the rear portion is prevented by the articulation from cutting the corner, a bendy bus should cut corners much less than a normal one and be less dangerous to any cyclists on the inside.

The new Highway Code tells cyclists to use the middle of the lane and not the inside.

Bendy buses will cut corners if not handled correctly.

I'm not a bus driver, but I can imagine a 12m rigid will swing further out towards the middle of the road than a bendy, and the bendy trailer will follow the front of the bendy bus which will be closer to the kerb than an outstanding rigid bus. Therefore the bendy bus will be closer to the apex of a corner than a rigid bus.
Or maybe I'm completely wrong!

The middle axle is a bit of a red herring when turning. Unlike a rigid bus that second axle is not the pivotal point - the pivotal point is the turntable which is 1m+ further back.

If the driver treats the middle axle as the pivot then rear section will cut across the path of the front section so poses a risk of kerbing and taking out pedestrians and furniture. The way to get out of this is to increase the lock while cornering, which makes the front of the rear section point away from the corner thus increasing the clearance. If you haven’t got any room to do this then you’re stuffed.

Controlling the direction the rear section is facing when turning is the key to clearing kerbs.

Reversing them is complex because the steering does different things depending on which side of the tractor (rear section) the trailer (front section) is pointing at. Because the trailer is unpowered and isn’t going anywhere without movement from the tractor, the easiest way to reverse into a space is to line it up straight first then reverse. Reversing round a bend takes some skill to angle the tractor and also to straighten the trailer without disturbing the direction tractor is facing. Bonus points for not triggering the jackknife alarm.

All good fun!

 

[railwaytrack]

One of the former Cardiff bendy buses is now based at Town & District Transport Trust's site in Lancashire. Last Saturday it took a trip to Harrogate, and I travelled on it from there to Skipton. It felt quite odd going over the A59 on it, and I was surprised how well it performed on the hills. I would add that it isn't something I'd fancy driving!


View attachment 111481

I just realised that at least two of them seem to have been preserved:

• CN06 GDK (604)
• CN06 GFO (615)

I am not 100% sure but i think that they may possibly be owned by the same people as they seem to be based in the same area.

These other ones also still exist in service with bus operators:

• CN06 GDJ (602) - Connexxions Buses
• CN06 GDO (603) - Portsmouth City Coaches

I am guessing that the rest will probably be scrapped but at least some have been saved.

 

[Dai Corner]

I just realised that at least two of them seem to have been preserved:

• CN06 GDK (604)
• CN06 GFO (615)

I am not 100% sure but i think that they may possibly be owned by the same people as they seem to be based in the same area.

These other ones also still exist in service with bus operators:

• CN06 GDJ (602) - Connexxions Buses
• CN06 GDO (603) - Portsmouth City Coaches

I am guessing that the rest will probably be scrapped but at least some have been saved.

CN06 GDY (619) is with the Cardiff Transport Preservation Group.

Cardiff 619 Has Joined The Collection - Cardiff Transport Preservation Group

The CTPG is pleased to confirm that Cardiff 619 has joined the collection, 619 is the last of the batch of bendybuses purchased by Cardiff in 2006 and was originally in the generic livery of green and cream so it could cover either the Baycar or Ely routes. The Bendybuses did get to Barry...

www.ctpg.co.uk

The CTPG is pleased to confirm that Cardiff 619 has joined the collection, 619 is the last of the batch of bendybuses purchased by Cardiff in 2006 and was originally in the generic livery of green and cream so it could cover either the Baycar or Ely routes. The Bendybuses did get to Barry occasionally on a service to Barry College. 619 was delivered to Llandow by Gareth Stevens and David Conway of Cardiff Bus. 619 will be running at this years events to celebrate the 120th Anniversary of Cardiff Transport.

Many thanks to Cardiff bus. We look forward to preserving this bendy piece of Cardiff bus history for future generations to experience.

 

[PG]

It's common for lifts to use 65 or 75kg. I am two people by the former!

To be fair, it also takes children into account.

I happened to use a couple of new-ish lifts installed side by side in a hospital earlier in the week: one used 76.19kg and the other 75.75kg!

Definitely a more realistic figure than older lifts used...