Birmingham to Teignmouth (or locality)

[chutuk]

Hi Guys,

Myself and a friend are attending a wedding in a small village called Stokeinteignhead in Devon on 7th Sep and was wondering if you could help me find tickets.

The nearest station would appear to be Teignmouth, and this is our preferred choice, however would settle for somewhere else local (within 3-5 miles) if there is a massive difference in fare.

We'd be looking to travel on Friday 6th Sep at around 4pm and return on the 8th at anytime between 11am and 5pm.

Tickets so far are coming up very expensive, was wondering if you could help find a discount/cheaper option. We used to have a 2together railcard but this has now expired. If any other railcard is suitable then please advise, we're both adults, aged 28/29.

In summary:

Depart: Birmingham New St at approx 4pm on 6th September
To: Teignmouth (or vacinity)
Return: Any time during the day on 8th September
Prefer quick journeys, minimal changes

Thanks all!

 

[bb21]

CrossCountry Advances are looking to be very expensive at the moment, and with Friday afternoon being a very busy time, I am not surprised.

An alternative option is to go with CrossCountry to Reading and change for a Great Western service, however Great Western Advances are not yet on sale for your dates of travel.

Another alternative if to go via London, however likewise Virgin Advances are not on sale yet for the dates you want to go.

There are some £27 Advances for the Sunday, and they are likely to disappear fairly quickly. You can buy them now and then hope that cheaper fares are released for the Friday with Virgin and Great Western, but there is no guarantee that any will be released. If none are released then you will likely be stuck with paying for a walk-on single, which is very expensive. So entirely your call.

In comparison the flexible walk-on Off-Peak Return is £88.10, so for Advance fares with no flexibility, I would be looking at paying no more than £70 in total, otherwise it is not worth the risking of missing your train and having to buy another ticket.

 

[telstarbox]

In comparison the flexible walk-on Off-Peak Return is £88.10, so for Advance fares with no flexibility, I would be looking at paying no more than £70 in total, otherwise it is not worth the risking of missing your train and having to buy another ticket.

You could 'split' at Cheltenham Spa and get the price down to £71.80 instead of £88.10. You can use any train after 0930 on the Friday and any train on the Sunday:

Birmingham Stations - Cheltenham Spa Off-Peak Return £23.30
Cheltenham Spa - Teignmouth Off-Peak Return £48.50

To use these tickets your train must call at Cheltenham Spa, but all the suggested journeys on National Rail Enquiries do this anyway so it's not a problem. There might be further splits which would reduce the price further.

 

[bb21]

You could 'split' at Cheltenham Spa and get the price down to £71.80 instead of £88.10. You can use any train after 0930 on the Friday and any train on the Sunday:

Yes, so even £70 is a bit much to pay for Advances.

 

[telstarbox]

There's probably a cheaper way to do Birmingham to Cheltenham too.

 

[bb21]

There's probably a cheaper way to do Birmingham to Cheltenham too.

Not for inexperienced travellers I don't think.

 

[soil]

Hereford - Teignmouth at £60 Anytime Return evades the XC tax and is valid via Birmingham, albeit it may come under the 'experienced travellers' bracket.

 

[bb21]

Hereford - Teignmouth at £60 Anytime Return evades the XC tax and is valid via Birmingham, albeit it may come under the 'experienced travellers' bracket.

Will need some tweaking. Not valid due to Easement 700189.

Customers travelling from Hereford, Ledbury, Colwall, Great Malvern, Malvern Link, Worcester Foregate Street and Worcester Shrub Hill to Cheltenham Spa and beyond, may not travel via Bromsgrove. This easement applies in both directions.

 

[chutuk]

Will need some tweaking. Not valid due to Easement 700189.

Would it be possible to get a Hereford to Teignmouth ticket via BHM but just not use the Hereford to Birmingham portion, joining the train at Birmingham?

 

[bb21]

Would it be possible to get a Hereford to Teignmouth ticket via BHM but just not use the Hereford to Birmingham portion, joining the train at Birmingham?

There isn't one available, unfortunately.

Even if one exists specifically for this purpose, it will almost certainly be priced higher than the £88 ticket.

 

[telstarbox]

No due to the easement quoted above, because Birmingham - Teignmouth involves going via Bromsgrove. The easement applies to the validity of the ticket, not the journey you actually make.

 

[chutuk]

No due to the easement quoted above, because Birmingham - Teignmouth involves going via Bromsgrove. The easement applies to the validity of the ticket, not the journey you actually make.

Bum. :cry:

 

[Goatboy]

If you are making a return trip it's very hard to find a situation where XC Advance Fares serve any real purpose, as 2x Advance is often greater in price than the offpeak return.

Never mind though - at least you get a quality service for your money and you won't be stood in the vestibule of a 4 coach DMU.

 

[richw]

You could 'split' at Cheltenham Spa and get the price down to £71.80 instead of £88.10. You can use any train after 0930 on the Friday and any train on the Sunday:

Birmingham Stations - Cheltenham Spa Off-Peak Return £23.30
Cheltenham Spa - Teignmouth Off-Peak Return £48.50

To use these tickets your train must call at Cheltenham Spa, but all the suggested journeys on National Rail Enquiries do this anyway so it's not a problem. There might be further splits which would reduce the price further.

This suggestion throws up an interesting anomaly in fares, Cheltenham Spa to Exeter St Davids is £55.70 off peak return

On a more helpful point Cheltenham - Newton Abbot is also £48.50 off peak return, as is Cheltenham to Torquay and Stokeinteignhead is within the Newton Abbot/ Torquay and Paignton Plus Bus area (Teignmouth doesn't have a plus bus scheme as far as I can see). This may save poster on onward travel should they require it.
Newton Abbot/ torquay/ paignton Plus bus map is here http://data.client.itoworld.com/plusbus/zones/NABT.html
I am unsure of bus times so cant guarantee there being appropriate bus times to suit your requirements. A look on Traveline may help to answer this.
Plus bus is £2 per day for the add on in this area, and I believe to be valid all day for as many bus journeys as required by the ticket holder.

 

[bb21]

This suggestion throws up an interesting anomaly in fares, Cheltenham Spa to Exeter St Davids is £55.70 off peak return

On a more helpful point Cheltenham - Newton Abbot is also £48.50 off peak return, as is Cheltenham to Torquay and Stokeinteignhead is within the Newton Abbot/ Torquay and Paignton Plus Bus area (Teignmouth doesn't have a plus bus scheme as far as I can see). This may save poster on onward travel should they require it.

Interesting discovery.

I would hazard a guess that Cheltenham - Newton Abbot is one of the flows taken over by CrossCountry from Great Western somewhere along the line in the last few years, as it has a typically FGW restriction WG (after 0833 with a large list of local easements), rather than XC's 2V (after 0930). I could be wrong though regarding the takeover. If true, then this is another example of rip-off fares charged by traditional XC practice as evidenced by the Exeter fare.

 

[soil]

Will need some tweaking. Not valid due to Easement 700189.

Oops, Leominster - Teignmouth then. £63.50 Anytime Return.

 

[bb21]

Oops, Leominster - Teignmouth then. £63.50 Anytime Return.

Very good. I was going to ask if you could have a look at something along the line towards Shrewsbury.

@OP. Very important.

The ticket suggested by soil is a perfectly valid ticket for travel Birmingham - Teignmouth, however you will likely be challenged if using it from Birmingham. Are you happy to argue your case with reference to the National Routeing Guide if needed?

We are happy to help you understand the document if needed, however you need to be aware that if your explanation is not accepted by the guard, you might well have to fight an Unpaid Fares Notice, and the associated inconvenience. If you just want a smooth journey then this might not be for you, and we need to look at other alternatives.

Don't go with this option unless you are 100% happy with it.

 

[chutuk]

Very good. I was going to ask if you could have a look at something along the line towards Shrewsbury.

@OP. Very important.

The ticket suggested by soil is a perfectly valid ticket for travel Birmingham - Teignmouth, however you will likely be challenged if using it from Birmingham. Are you happy to argue your case with reference to the National Routeing Guide if needed?

We are happy to help you understand the document if needed, however you need to be aware that if your explanation is not accepted by the guard, you might well have to fight an Unpaid Fares Notice, and the associated inconvenience. If you just want a smooth journey then this might not be for you, and we need to look at other alternatives.

Don't go with this option unless you are 100% happy with it.

Thanks all for the advice. I'm going to have to read into the routing guides to get myself fully au fait with the ticketing/routing restrictions etc, however, using the suggested ticket above (Leominster to Teignmouth via Birmingham) what issues am I likely to encounter?

If the route is allowed and valid what challenges or questions am I likely to face from train guards and how do I best answer these challenges?

Thanks again
Andy

 

[bb21]

Thanks all for the advice. I'm going to have to read into the routing guides to get myself fully au fait with the ticketing/routing restrictions etc, however, using the suggested ticket above (Leominster to Teignmouth via Birmingham) what issues am I likely to encounter?

If the route is allowed and valid what challenges or questions am I likely to face from train guards and how do I best answer these challenges?

Thanks again
Andy

The guard might tell you that the ticket is not valid via Birmingham. If you object, he might ask you why you think the ticket is valid via Birmingham, and an answer such as "I was informed so by people on an internet forum" is unlikely to wash. Even if you can explain the Routeing Guide fluently, bear in mind that many guards have never heard of the document as they are not always very well trained. Condition 13 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage explains what the Routeing Guide is for, so it might be prudent to have a copy of the NRCoC available on you to show the guard. It is also recommended to have the relevant pages from the Routeing Guide with you to show the guard if needed, however that would only work if you understand the document yourself.

If a guard is not happy with the ticket, then likely actions could range from you being "let off", charged a new ticket for Birmingham - Cheltenham, or even a brand new ticket completely. You could also be reported for a ticket irregularity. I recommend that you do not part with any money if demanded, and instead provide your details so that the matter can be reported by the guard. (Your ticket may also be withdrawn, however in that case, you must be provided with a free replacement to enable you to complete the journey.) It is much easier to fight an investigation than to ask for your money back.

Of course you might not experience any problem at all.

As I said, only proceed with this option if you are 100% comfortable with confrontations and can remain calm in these situations. Otherwise we need to look at alternative options.

 

[soil]

It's perfectly possible, of course that you won't be questioned.

The ticket looks reasonable, IMO.

 

[chutuk]

It's perfectly possible, of course that you won't be questioned.

The ticket looks reasonable, IMO.

Thanks both for your help. I've looked into the routing guides, albeit briefly and from what I can tell, for the suggested routing points (Craven arms to Exeter group) maps BD+CE are perfectly valid for travel. Unless there's an 'easement' that I/We don't know about.

Obviously I won't be completing the full journey but this shouldn't be an issue should it?

I feel happy and comfortable enough to politely challenge a guard if necessary, however don't want to be in a situation where travel is denied or extra money demanded.

As long as the ticket is valid via my desired route I think this is definitely the best choice. It's not a huge saving but I'd rather have the extra £15-20 in my pocket than theirs!

Thanks again all!

 

[bb21]

Thanks both for your help. I've looked into the routing guides, albeit briefly and from what I can tell, for the suggested routing points (Craven arms to Exeter group) maps BD+CE are perfectly valid for travel. Unless there's an 'easement' that I/We don't know about.

Craven Arms fails fares check for the Leominster ticket (Craven Arms - Teignmouth Anytime Day Single £53.50, Leominster - Teignmouth Anytime Day Single £50.50), however as the Craven Arms Anytime Return ticket is the same price at £63.50, make sure you buy that one (Craven Arms - Teignmouth Anytime Return).

I am glad that you are happy with this option. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[30907]

Out of pure (60's Devon General) nostalgia I looked up the buses - Stoke gets two return trips a day on Wednesdays and Fridays, and the main Teignmouth-Torquay service sticks to the main road

 

[maniacmartin]

Another option if you aren't comfortable with justifying the Leominster ticket's route to staff is a split under 19(c) of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (NRCoC). If you plan on doing this, I suggest you print the relevant page out.

Section 19(c) allows you to use one season ticket with some other non-season tickets without the train having to call at the changeover station.

For £70.70 you can get:

BIRMINGHAM STNS to BROMSGROVE
ANYTIME DAY S (x2) £11.00
Route: ANY PERMITTED

BROMSGROVE to YATTON
OFF-PEAK R
£23.70
Route: NOT VIA BIRMNGHM

YATTON to EXETER ST DAVIDS
OFF-PEAK R
£22.60
Route: DIRECT

EXETER ST DAVIDS to EXETER ST THOMAS
7 DAY SEASON
£5.60

EXETER ST THOMAS to TEIGNMOUTH
OFF-PEAK DAY S (x2)
£7.80
Route: ANY PERMITTED

If you do use these tickets, expect to be challenged and possibly have to appeal a Unpaid Penalty Fare Notice.

(I realise this is only a modest saving on the £88.10 through ticket, so it may not be worth the hassle)

 

[bb21]

Another option if you aren't comfortable with justifying the Leominster ticket's route to staff is a split under 19(c) of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (NRCoC). If you plan on doing this, I suggest you print the relevant page out....

While I have no doubt that this is valid, it will almost certainly be more hassle than the Craven Arms / Leominster ticket. Unless you run into a highly knowledgeable guard, this sort of combination will almost certainly be challenged.

Not recommended for novices.

 

[OwlMan]

While I have no doubt that this is valid, it will almost certainly be more hassle than the Craven Arms / Leominster ticket. Unless you run into a highly knowledgeable guard, this sort of combination will almost certainly be challenged.

Not recommended for novices.

You could also do a similar split with a Freedom of Severn & Solent 3 in 7 rover saver
£3.40 x2 Birmingham - Barnt Green singles
£4.40x2 Barnt Green - Worcester not Birmingham single(stop short at Ashchurch)
£45 FOSS
£13.70 Tiverton - Teignmouth SVR

Total £74.30

 

[bb21]

You could also do a similar split with a Freedom of Severn & Slent 3 in 7 rover saver
£3.40 x2 Birmingham - Barnt Green singles
£4.40x2 Barnt Green - Worcester not Birmingham single(stop short at Ashchurch)
£45 FOSS
£13.70 Tiverton - Teignmouth SVR

Total £74.30

It is likely to be more acceptable to some guards with a Rover than a very short season ticket. At least they are much less likely to think that you are taking the yellow stuff, not that there is necessarily much difference involved price-wise.

 

[CC 72100]

It is likely to be more acceptable to some guards with a Rover than a very short season ticket. At least they are much less likely to think that you are taking the yellow stuff, not that there is necessarily much difference involved price-wise.

Get it down further by swapping Tiverton - Teignmouth SVR with a Devon day ranger, which is only £10? (Not sure whether that means you now have to be on a train that stops at Tiverton though, I've often wondered about combing a Devon day ranger and FOSS)

 

[bb21]

Get it down further by swapping Tiverton - Teignmouth SVR with a Devon day ranger, which is only £10? (Not sure whether that means you now have to be on a train that stops at Tiverton though, I've often wondered about combing a Devon day ranger and FOSS)

Useful for a day return, which is not what the OP is proposing.

No need for the train to stop at Tiverton FWIW.

 

[CC 72100]

Useful for a day return, which is not what the OP is proposing.

No need for the train to stop at Tiverton FWIW.

Missed that bit

Thanks for the clarification for anything in the future though.