Blackpool Heritage Tram Operations Suspended

[Towers]

Honest maybe, but lacking in foresight in respect of not communicating the issue earlier which would have enabled a more organised drawdown - and maybe engendered more sympathy.

Indeed. In other words then, it was always BT’s intention never to comply with the requirements and dismiss heritage to the bin with a sudden announcement, but they’ve been caught short and had to do it earlier than they were planning to?

Either way, rather than state that this was happening and allow some sort of planned run-down and appreciation of the last season of operations, they chose to keep quiet about it and spring it at the last moment. Doesn’t seem any need for that, really.

Hopefully, given the number of cars preserved and the sums evidently available from various sources over the years to accommodate this, one of the groups may be able to make serious enquiries regarding fitment of the necessary equipment to at least one heritage car to keep the Fun Police happy. I very much hope so. What a miserable little island we seem to be inhabiting these days.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Indeed. In other words then, it was always BT’s intention never to comply with the requirements and dismiss heritage to the bin with a sudden announcement, but they’ve been caught short and had to do it earlier than they were planning to?

If that be the case, then suitable retribution should be applied to them.

 

[cool110]

Does anyone know any of the technical details of the Blackpool overspeed prevention system?

It's a enhancement of Bombardier's existing collision avoidance system for the Flexity, that adds GPS based geofenced speed restrictions. Given how deeply embedded into the Flexity 2 computer system it is, something completely different would be needed for the heritage trams.

 

[daodao]

If we assume that tramway wouldn't currently exist if it hadn't been kept open for its heritage value - and I think that's right

That is not correct. The promenade tramway and the interurban line to Fleetwood were retained when the rest of the tramway closed, as the route was mostly reserved track and/or separate from motor vehicles, the cars from the 1930s were well-built and could be retained/rebuilt/modernised without vast expenditure and most importantly there was a need to move large numbers of people along the promenade during the summer season, extended into early November by the Illuminations. There was serious discussion about abandoning the tramway or at least the section beyond Little Bispham, or restricting it to a seasonal heritage operation only, 20 years ago, but it was finally decided to modernise it for the 21st century as a light rail regular public transport operation, as there is still a need to carry large numbers of people along the promenade during much of Blackpool's extended season, albeit not quite as many as in former years. That is its primary role.

 

[eldomtom2]

It's a enhancement of Bombardier's existing collision avoidance system for the Flexity, that adds GPS based geofenced speed restrictions. Given how deeply embedded into the Flexity 2 computer system it is, something completely different would be needed for the heritage trams.

If it's GPS-based, in principle it doesn't seem impossible to create a system that can monitor speed and location and apply the brakes if necessary without unduly compromising the integrity of the heritage vehicle. Of course, I have no idea of the price...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If it's GPS-based, in principle it doesn't seem impossible to create a system that can monitor speed and location and apply the brakes if necessary without unduly compromising the integrity of the heritage vehicle. Of course, I have no idea of the price...

In order to meet the fully-installed point that you raise above and all the other requirements that seemingly have to be met, what financial figure would be required in order to have the heritage fleet in full operational strength?

 

[Towers]

In order to meet the fully-installed point that you raise above and all the other requirements that seemingly have to be met, what financial figure would be required in order to have the heritage fleet in full operational strength?

It is surely far more likely that any required modifications would be carried out to just one or two cars, as necessary? Or, better, perhaps a derogation allowing some form of ‘mobile’ equipment which provides a sufficient alert to the driver without actually being ‘plumbed in’, as it were. That would permit a wider heritage operation to continue, but of course may be a slightly fancyful suggestion. I’m thinking along the lines of mobile GSMR equipment utilised on heritage rolling stock for mainline use, although of course that requires nothing more than a radio connection. A solution will exist, it’s just a matter of developing and paying for it of course!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It is surely far more likely that any required modifications would be carried out to just one or two cars, as necessary? Or, better, perhaps a derogation allowing some form of ‘mobile’ equipment which provides a sufficient alert to the driver without actually being ‘plumbed in’, as it were.

From the general feeling amongst people viewing this matter, from a non-enthusiast but an actual real-time legalistic view, the fact clearly stands out that totally ignoring actually stated instructions to ensure operational correctness will do nothing to aid the hoped-for case of the type of derogation that you mention above.

 

[tram21]

Do you happen to know if it was sold out before this news broke? My reaction on finding out that it was running - like many others I suspect - was to go and see if I could book it but was too late. I wonder if some spaces may now be given up.

Yes it was definitely sold out almost immediately after tickets going out, well before this news!

 

[Skymonster]

If it's GPS-based, in principle it doesn't seem impossible to create a system that can monitor speed and location and apply the brakes if necessary without unduly compromising the integrity of the heritage vehicle.

Bear in mind some of the vehicles are 90+ years old and don’t even have a permanent battery on board let alone any electrical systems other than for power control / traction, air compressors for brakes, heating and lighting. Those fitted with trolleys rather than pantographs don’t have power if they de-wire. Maybe, just maybe, technically possible given time and money. But integrating a modern GPS system that has to fail safe with an ancient rheostatic power system and air brakes that fail off rather than on, could be quite a task.

 

[daodao]

Bear in mind some of the vehicles are 90+ years old and don’t even have a permanent battery on board let alone any electrical systems other than for power control / traction, air compressors for brakes, heating and lighting. Those fitted with trolleys rather than pantographs don’t have power if they de-wire. Maybe, just maybe, technically possible given time and money. But integrating a modern GPS system that has to fail safe with an ancient rheostatic power system and air brakes that fail off rather than on, could be quite a task.

Apart from the balloon "B" fleet (only 2 of which operated in 2024), at the cessation of operations there were only 8 heritage trams at Blackpool (2 boats, 2 unmodified balloons, 1 Brush, Bolton 66 and 2 illuminated cars) in running order. All are at least 85 years old, apart from the illuminated cars, but even their electrical equipment was built pre-WW2. Enabling any of them to run again on the line with the required safety features will not be easy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apart from the balloon "B" fleet (only 2 of which operated in 2024), at the cessation of operations there were only 8 heritage trams at Blackpool (2 boats, 2 unmodified balloons, 1 Brush, Bolton 66 and 2 illuminated cars) in running order. All are at least 85 years old. apart from the illuminated cars, but even their electrical equipment was built pre-WW2. Enabling any of them to run again on the line with the required safety features will not be easy.

Depends what you mean by easy. As I mentioned above, there is at least one project ongoing to fit a steam locomotive with ETCS, which one would think impossible but clearly isn't. The system involved here, a GPS speed limiter and anti-collision feature by the sounds of it, doesn't sound anywhere near as complex as ETCS.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The system involved here, a GPS speed limiter and anti-collision feature by the sounds of it, doesn't sound anywhere near as complex as ETCS.

Can you give an idea of the cost involved in installing a fully operational unit of the type you describe above?

 

[Towers]

Apart from the balloon "B" fleet (only 2 of which operated in 2024), at the cessation of operations there were only 8 heritage trams at Blackpool (2 boats, 2 unmodified balloons, 1 Brush, Bolton 66 and 2 illuminated cars) in running order. All are at least 85 years old, apart from the illuminated cars, but even their electrical equipment was built pre-WW2. Enabling any of them to run again on the line with the required safety features will not be easy.

Point of order; also 2 modified Balloons, 700 and 718. Unless you’re referring to those as the 2 B fleet cars? They’re both very much part of the heritage operation, either way!

Ironically 718 had done a few turns on LRT duties in recent months, such has been the shortage of Flexity operations. Amazingly nobody died, incredible stuff…

 

[daodao]

Point of order; also 2 modified Balloons, 700 and 718. Unless you’re referring to those as the 2 B fleet cars? They’re both very much part of the heritage operation, either way!

Ironically 718 had done a few turns on LRT duties in recent months, such has been the shortage of Flexity operations. Amazingly nobody died, incredible stuff…

I referred to 2 modified Balloons in the "B" fleet having operated in 2024 in my previous post, which you have correctly stated were 700 and 718.

 

[alex397]

If the will is there, a solution will surely be found? What do the tram networks on the continent do? Either they commit to keeping historic stock in service spending money on adaptations, or they don’t have as stringent safety regulations as we do.

Obviously big capital cities like Brussels and Prague can afford to adapt historic stock, but smaller systems do also manage it.
Even if Blackpool isn’t a major capital city, it’s still a tourist destination. It’s also a highly deprived area and increasingly so. Investing in the town, including on its tourist attractions which the trams undoubtedly are, is something local and national governments should be doing.

 

[jumble]

Indeed. In other words then, it was always BT’s intention never to comply with the requirements and dismiss heritage to the bin with a sudden announcement, but they’ve been caught short and had to do it earlier than they were planning to?

Either way, rather than state that this was happening and allow some sort of planned run-down and appreciation of the last season of operations, they chose to keep quiet about it and spring it at the last moment. Doesn’t seem any need for that, really.

Hopefully, given the number of cars preserved and the sums evidently available from various sources over the years to accommodate this, one of the groups may be able to make serious enquiries regarding fitment of the necessary equipment to at least one heritage car to keep the Fun Police happy. I very much hope so. What a miserable little island we seem to be inhabiting these days.

Has this been posted yet?

Heritage Operations Update

Following a thorough review, we have made the difficult decision to suspend our Heritage Tram Tours. Operating the Heritage Trams alongside our modern fleet has become increasingly challenging, with issues such as depot space, tram movements, general safety and maintenance conflicts making it...

blackpoolheritage.com

Please see an update on the Heritage Tram Operations.

Update released on Tuesday 10th December at 1300

Next Steps for Heritage Tram Operations and Preservation Outlined


After the recent Statement released by Blackpool Heritage Tram Tours, Jane Cole, Managing Director of Blackpool Transport has issued the following statement addressing concerns regarding the future of the Heritage Tram operation:

“As Managing Director of Blackpool Transport I would like to reach out to everyone who has expressed their concerns about the future of the Heritage Tram operation. I am the biggest advocate for the preservation and future of our beautiful assets.

“I can confirm that the future of our heritage trams is safe and we aim to have them back on the Promenade next year. However, before that can happen there are a number of complex operational issues that need to be addressed.

“While we work on these, we have made the difficult decision to suspend operations. We apologise for the disappointment and inconvenience this has caused to our passengers but it is the right decision at this time.

“Recently we have been able to run the heritage trams out of Starr Gate depot which does not interfere with the ongoing works at Rigby Road. We are considering how this could provide a solution to some of the challenges we are currently facing.

“It is also important to clarify that the suspension of tram tours does not affect plans for the Rigby Road tram shed. In fact, it highlights the importance of bringing our vision for Tramtown to life to preserve Blackpool’s heritage.

“Blackpool Transport Services and Blackpool Council remain committed to continue working with all our volunteers, supporters and stakeholders during this pause in the operational running of the heritage fleet.”

 

[Towers]

I’m

Has this been posted yet

Heritage Operations Update

Following a thorough review, we have made the difficult decision to suspend our Heritage Tram Tours. Operating the Heritage Trams alongside our modern fleet has become increasingly challenging, with issues such as depot space, tram movements, general safety and maintenance conflicts making it...

blackpoolheritage.com

Please see an update on the Heritage Tram Operations.

Update released on Tuesday 10th December at 1300

Next Steps for Heritage Tram Operations and Preservation Outlined


After the recent Statement released by Blackpool Heritage Tram Tours, Jane Cole, Managing Director of Blackpool Transport has issued the following statement addressing concerns regarding the future of the Heritage Tram operation:

“As Managing Director of Blackpool Transport I would like to reach out to everyone who has expressed their concerns about the future of the Heritage Tram operation. I am the biggest advocate for the preservation and future of our beautiful assets.

“I can confirm that the future of our heritage trams is safe and we aim to have them back on the Promenade next year. However, before that can happen there are a number of complex operational issues that need to be addressed.

“While we work on these, we have made the difficult decision to suspend operations. We apologise for the disappointment and inconvenience this has caused to our passengers but it is the right decision at this time.

“Recently we have been able to run the heritage trams out of Starr Gate depot which does not interfere with the ongoing works at Rigby Road. We are considering how this could provide a solution to some of the challenges we are currently facing.

“It is also important to clarify that the suspension of tram tours does not affect plans for the Rigby Road tram shed. In fact, it highlights the importance of bringing our vision for Tramtown to life to preserve Blackpool’s heritage.

“Blackpool Transport Services and Blackpool Council remain committed to continue working with all our volunteers, supporters and stakeholders during this pause in the operational running of the heritage fleet.”

This is great news, a promising next step at least.

 

[DarloRich]

Has this been posted yet

that doesn't seem to agree with the noise above! it seems a positive message.

 

[Western Sunset]

If the MD of BT had posted the above in the first place, it would've eased fears folks had.

 

[bramling]

There is absolutely a culture of dishonesty and lack of transparency among wide swathes of British business and Government about this sort of thing.

Local government in this country sucks. Though perhaps we shouldn’t be surprised, when the model essentially works on the basis of people being chosen on the basis of a rosette colour, rather than whether they have any competence.

 

[Krokodil]

If the MD of BT had posted the above in the first place, it would've eased fears folks had.

Yes, it's welcome reassurance that should have been part of the original announcement.

 

[Towers]

Yes, it's welcome reassurance that should have been part of the original announcement.

Nevertheless it’s just good to hear it at all at this stage!

 

[Krokodil]

Yes, better late than never

 

[Ianigsy]

I don’t envy whoever had to deal with Blackpool Transport‘s emails and social media when they signed in on Monday morning!

Three months now until the Easter holidays, when the tram service runs primarily for residents and minds can be focused on finding a solution.

Local government in this country sucks. Though perhaps we shouldn’t be surprised, when the model essentially works on the basis of people being chosen on the basis of a rosette colour, rather than whether they have any competence.

There are a couple of ongoing disputes in my town which are showing up some of the issues - elected representatives not having enough power to make a difference for their constituents and unelected officials (sometimes not even in the same county) putting their foot down in the knowledge that they won’t be overruled.

 

[tram21]

The local MP has issued this statement. What he's said is exactly what I've been thinking and what I'd imagine many are thinking. Personally I think the statement is helpful but doesn't completely guarantee their future- there's still many hurdles to overcome. I really do hope they come back ASAP, and can't wait for their return, but there's probably a lot to do before then!

I am relieved that Blackpool Council has confirmed that heritage trams will return in 2025. The suspension of our heritage trams, including the illuminated vehicles during the Christmas period is very disappointing.

I have received many messages from concerned constituents and visitors to our town – many who say the heritage trams are the main attraction for them and that they will not be returning as long as the trams are suspended. This demonstrates the knock-on effect this will have on our economy.

Our heritage trams are also a vital part of Blackpool’s culture. Their integration with our modern tramways embody how our town honours tradition while constantly innovating under our motto of Progress.

In 2024 we have seen the opening of a new state-of-the-art tramway on Talbot Road and a new museum on the promenade celebrating Blackpool’s heritage. To close down this living aspect of our heritage simultaneously seems very short sighted.

Blackpool Transport has now outlined its reasons for suspending the trams – pointing to operational issues including depot space, safety concerns and ‘overall efficiency’. I am keen to ensure that safety concerns in particular are addressed as soon as possible so this vital service can return.

I am concerned by comments from Blackpool Transport that they are exploring new ways to honour our transport heritage and innovative opportunities to showcase our tramway history. While I welcome this move they must ensure the trams are also back in use as soon as possible.

I am requesting an urgent meeting with Blackpool Transport to seek further clarification on the specific concerns around the trams’ safety and efficiency as well as a more specific timeframe for when the general public can expect the trams to return and I will be keeping my constituents informed.

 

[duffield]

Three pages of wibble and still the only fact is the one in the thread title.

So a pretty typical thread then?

 

[tram21]

So a pretty typical thread then?

That's why this is a forum and not an official Blackpool press release platform!

 

[James H]

You don't need to be a PR genius to see that the initial statement was inadequate and would generate alarm / concern / criticism

 

[Towers]

The local MP has issued this statement. What he's said is exactly what I've been thinking and what I'd imagine many are thinking. Personally I think the statement is helpful but doesn't completely guarantee their future- there's still many hurdles to overcome. I really do hope they come back ASAP, and can't wait for their return, but there's probably a lot to do before then!

It’s rather heart warming to see that there’s such affection and concern for the heritage operation, I must say.