Blackpool Trams News

[Ant158]

If you miss your intended tram, or simply turn up on spec, it's probably worth catching the next tram to arrive, but you would do better to plan the journey better from the outset.

Here lies a big part of the issue, many visitors to Blackpool don't plan to get a specific tram. We often walk from Bispham to the Tower and get the first tram back. In the past with a 15 min or better single route service, visitors especially didn't have to worry about waiting too long for or planning their journey to a timetable.

Will be interesting to see if the Bispham turn back trams reappear during the traditional Illuminations period.

 

[Sunil_P]

Due to arrive at Blackpool North at 13:25 on Wednesday, leaving at 16:19.

Will I have enough time to do the new extension and both new curves in each direction?

 

[Kite159]

I can just picture the scene on the southern section of the network where the first tram after the 25 minute gap will get later and later due to crowds with the one 5 minutes behind catching up.

Tram systems are meant to be turn up and go, and outside Sheffield (Herdings Park/Rotherham) I can't think of anything else which is such low frequency. Passengers won't necessarily look up timetables beforehand, and what doesn't help is the lack of real time information at stops.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Due to arrive at Blackpool North at 13:25 on Wednesday, leaving at 16:19.

Will I have enough time to do the new extension and both new curves in each direction?

Definitely, if you did:
T2 13:45 to Tower (arrival ~13:53)
T2 ~14:00 to North Station (Arrival 14:09)
T3 14:30 to Bispham* (arrival 14:46)
T3 14:59 to Talbot Square (arrival 15:10) {North station at 15:15}
and that's all the track done with an hour to spare
There's probably a quicker way by walking between stops

* could use Pleasant St instead of Bispham, but it probably wouldn't make the connection either way.
Any estimated (~) times are based on this timetable which only has a few stops

 

[Northerngirl]

What I don't understand is why there
Is a service avoid the new section, surely the best way of operating it is to just run one end to end service, like how media city is on the metrolink Eccles line (but even easier as it all double track), rename talbot road to north pier platform 3, it would get rid of this 5 then 25 min wait, and add only a couple of minutes onto the journey time for the people going end to end

 

[Bovverboy]

Will be interesting to see if the Bispham turn back trams reappear during the traditional Illuminations period.

I was in Blackpool on Saturday and would say that Bispham terminators had been running, since I noted twelve Flexity trams in service, compared to the nine required (at the time) for the basic timetable, but by the time I was in a position to seriously observe the tram comings and goings, the extra trams were heading back to depot. I saw only one heading for Bispham, and even that got turned at Cabin to cover for an ex-Fleetwood tram, which, for whatever reason, wasn't where it was scheduled to be.
So I would imagine Bispham terminators will be a feature of the entire season.

 

[bluegoblin7]

I disagree that most connections 'make' at North Pier - some do, some don't.

Apologies, typo for North Station. The 5 minute run times between North Pier/Talbot Square and the station are extremely generous.

So I would imagine Bispham terminators will be a feature of the entire season.

As they always have been, given that there has always been a need for short trips along the core section. Eminently sensible and better able to cater for demand.

 

[Bovverboy]

A fifteen minute headway on the Talbot Square to Starr Gate section could be created by having the fifteen minute layover at Fleetwood rather than North Station (T3) or Starr Gate (T1).

I've checked this idea out meticulously, and find it gives an even headway on all sections, even North Station to/from North Pier/Talbot Square. I cant see why Blackpool Transport didn't adopt it - perhaps they wouldn't want their crews hanging around Fleetwood?

I disagree that most connections 'make' at North Pier - some do, some don't.

Apologies, typo for North Station.

I can't see that connections are any better at North Station - far from it. For instance, if you're coming from the Fleetwood direction, and want to continue towards Starr Gate, the arrival times are 15 and 45 and the departure times the same. So if you miss the connection you will be half an hour behind where you would have been had you changed at Talbot Square/North Pier. (If you were to return to North Pier on the Fleetwood tram you would miss the next Starr Gate). In the opposite direction the arrival times are 09 and 39, departures 30 and 00 - you would finish up a quarter of an hour behind where you would have been had you changed at Talbot Square/North Pier, or simply waited for the next through tram. So by changing trams at North Station there would be nothing to be gained, and everything to lose.

 

[Harvey B]

I disagree that most connections 'make' at North Pier - some do, some don't.
1. Imagine someone wanting to travel from somewhere North of North Pier to somewhere South thereof. They could catch a direct tram (10 and 40 ex Fleetwood) or they could catch a North Station tram (25 and 55 ex Fleetwood) and alight at Talbot Square (arrive 10 or 40). Giving them ten minutes to stroll over to the North Pier stop to catch the North Station to Starr Gate tram, but saving only five minutes on waiting, from the outset, for the next Fleetwood to Starr Gate tram.
2. Someone wanting to travel from North of North Pier to North Station. Direct trams 25 and 55 from Fleetwood, indirect (i.e. catch Starr Gate tram) 10 and 40 from Fleetwood. Arrive North Pier 55 or 25, giving nine minutes to stroll over to Talbot Square for the North Station tram, but saving only six minutes over waiting, from the outset, for the next Fleetwood to North Station tram.

3. South of North Pier to North thereof. Direct trams 00 and 30 ex Starr Gate, indirect (i.e. catch North Station tram) 15 and 45. Arrive Talbot Square 34 or 04, leaving one minute to get from there to the North Pier Northbound stop, far too tight, and as seems to have been established, the ex-North Station trams are leaving North Pier early anyway. So the only remaining option, wait c.15 minutes for the next Starr Gate to Fleetwood tram, which could have been waited for at the outset.

4. South of North Pier to North Station, direct trams 15 and 45 ex Starr Gate, indirect (i.e. catch Fleetwood tram) 00 and 30. Arrive North Pier 19 or 49, comfortably missing the Fleetwood to North Station tram (10 and 40 at Talbot Square). So the only remaining option, stroll over to the Talbot Square stop and wait c.15 minutes for the next Starr Gate to North Station tram, which could have been waited for at the outset.
Conclusion: If you miss your intended tram, or simply turn up on spec, it's probably worth catching the next tram to arrive, but you would do better to plan the journey better from the outset.

Scenarios 2 and 4 wouldn't happen in any realistic situation. I suspect most people travelling to North Station (regardless of which direction they're coming from) will either catch the direct tram to North Station, or they'll just simply hop off at North Pier and walk all the way along Talbot Road

I can just picture the scene on the southern section of the network where the first tram after the 25 minute gap will get later and later due to crowds with the one 5 minutes behind catching up.

Yep, the results of a poorly Thought out timetable, I suspect most people doing short distance Journeys (i.e North to Central Pier) will just give up and walk after 10-15 minutes. Others (I.e heading to South Pier, Pleasure Beach or Starr Gate)will walk part of the way and catch the Tram from a stop further down, and the rest will just find an alternative way to their destination (i.e: Buses and Taxis)

I wonder how many people will just give up and either walk or get buses/taxis instead?

Tram systems are meant to be turn up and go, and outside Sheffield (Herdings Park/Rotherham) I can't think of anything else which is such low frequency. Passengers won't necessarily look up timetables beforehand, and what doesn't help is the lack of real time information at stops.

Agreed. If this new timetable is going to be a standard "One size fits all" timetable, then Realtime information screens is certainly a must, (or at the very least, a QR code which leads to a realtime tracker at your current stop), I'd say it's also a must when they are running unadvertised specials. I certainly hope it isn't and they can provide more capacity over the Summer Holidays and Illuminations.

 

[Sunil_P]

Definitely, if you did:
T2 13:45 to Tower (arrival ~13:53)
T2 ~14:00 to North Station (Arrival 14:09)
T3 14:30 to Bispham* (arrival 14:46)
T3 14:59 to Talbot Square (arrival 15:10) {North station at 15:15}
and that's all the track done with an hour to spare
There's probably a quicker way by walking between stops

* could use Pleasant St instead of Bispham, but it probably wouldn't make the connection either way.
Any estimated (~) times are based on this timetable which only has a few stops

Thanks very much, will give it a go tomorrow!

 

[davehsug]

Got caught twice yesterday just missing a T1, once from South pier and once Manchester Square, both times heading north of Talbot Square. It is so bluddy annoying having to wait 25 and 28 minutes for the next T1. There are so many hotels on the Northern promenade, and the service from town for them is appalling, particularly on a freezing cold and windy evening.

 

[Blackpool boy]

Yep, the results of a poorly Thought out timetable, I suspect most people doing short distance Journeys (i.e North to Central Pier) will just give up and walk after 10-15 minutes. Others (I.e heading to South Pier, Pleasure Beach or Starr Gate)will walk part of the way and catch the Tram from a stop further down, and the rest will just find an alternative way to their destination (i.e: Buses and Taxis)

The vast majority of people already do this anyway and have done for years - its not the prom or pier that this service is a benefit for really its those going up to bispham and beyond really. Anyone for the central hotels dont even have the tram go near them so they will still walk or get a cab down to the central hotel area as before.

And for most of the hotels at south pier and along that stretch are mainly coached in via any of the tour operators

 

[Bovverboy]

What I don't understand is why there
Is a service avoid the new section, surely the best way of operating it is to just run one end to end service, like how media city is on the metrolink Eccles line

In normal circumstances the Metrolink Eccles and Media City lines run as separate services - except off-peak Mons to Sats and all day Suns. That's how they're operating at the moment, if they run combined at times other than those stated, there's a reason for it.

 

[Harvey B]

I was in Blackpool on Saturday and would say that Bispham terminators had been running, since I noted twelve Flexity trams in service, compared to the nine required (at the time) for the basic timetable, but by the time I was in a position to seriously observe the tram comings and goings, the extra trams were heading back to depot. I saw only one heading for Bispham, and even that got turned at Cabin to cover for an ex-Fleetwood tram, which, for whatever reason, wasn't where it was scheduled to be.
So I would imagine Bispham terminators will be a feature of the entire season.

As they always have been, given that there has always been a need for short trips along the core section. Eminently sensible and better able to cater for demand.

Is this the permanent solution? All day specials running between Pleasure Beach and Bispham (or Little Bipsham) every day from mid July all the way until Christmas? I don't think running specials to plug the gaps to a broken timetable is going to be a worthy solution (Although I could be entirely wrong altogether).

I'm not opposed to them running specials for additional capacity but I don't think it's the best solution in the long run

 

[ValleyLines142]

In normal circumstances the Metrolink Eccles and Media City lines run as separate services - except off-peak Mons to Sats and all day Suns. That's how they're operating at the moment, if they run combined at times other than those stated, there's a reason for it.

This is something that I could see with the North Station services in the evenings or on Sundays. In the evenings the North Station services have been carrying fresh air, and would probably be more beneficial at say after 7pm just having T1s running Starr Gate to Fleetwood via Station instead. Given that it takes roughly 3 minutes to travel between North Pier and the station, plus a quick change of ends, and then back again, it would add barely ten minutes onto the journey.

On another note, I was speaking to a conductor last night on the T2 and she was saying that heading north from Pleasure Beach nobody is taking a blind bit of notice at the fact that trams either go to Fleetwood or North Station now. Despite the timetable posters at stops, displays on the tram and automated announcements, several people still ask if trams go to XYZ when they're not.

 

[Tramfan]

On another note, I was speaking to a conductor last night on the T2 and she was saying that heading north from Pleasure Beach nobody is taking a blind bit of notice at the fact that trams either go to Fleetwood or North Station now. Despite the timetable posters at stops, displays on the tram and automated announcements, several people still ask if trams go to XYZ when they're not.

Given that most users of the tram are visitors, that doesn't surprise me. Also given that people still don't seem to understand that heritage trams on heritage tours stop at heritage tour stops, and that the LRTs stop at LRT platforms (it's still possible to see people trying to flag heritage trams down from the LRT platforms, and then complaining when they pass without stopping, and vice-versa with the LRTs at heritage stops) I expect confusion around the different services to continue.

I witnessed a family with a load of luggage come up from the station to the new tram stop wanting a southbound tram, and when the conductor told them it would be about 25 mins, they walked away...

 

[daodao]

Is this the permanent solution? All day specials running between Pleasure Beach and Bispham (or Little Bipsham) every day from mid July all the way until Christmas? I don't think running specials to plug the gaps to a broken timetable is going to be a worthy solution (Although I could be entirely wrong altogether).

I'm not opposed to them running specials for additional capacity but I don't think it's the best solution in the long run.

I suspect that the current timetable will be amended in the light of experience.

IMO, the service needs to be "turn up and go", which requires that each route that is operated runs at least every 15 minutes, as applies on Manchester Metrolink. My suggestion would be to operate a single core daily all day/all year service on the following route, running every 15 minutes:

• Fleetwood to Starr Gate via North Station, with a journey time of no more than 75 minutes achieved by a slight acceleration north of Bispham and a reversing time of 3 minutes at North Station - this should require 11 trams

At the beginning of service, some trams could run direct from Starr Gate to Fleetwood and vice-versa at the end of service, with some short workings from Starr Gate to North Station as well at these times, to ensure that there is an earlier service from North Station to Starr Gate at the start of service and a later service from Starr Gate to North Station at the end of service.

At busier times, a separate additional service would run every 15 minutes from Pleasure Beach direct to Bispham avoiding North Station, taking no more than 25 minutes - this should require 4 trams. As an educated guess, the peak period would be:

• 1000-1800 every day during the holiday season from Good Friday to the day before the Illuminations start
• 1000-2200 every day from the start of the Illuminations to the end of the Autumn half-term holiday and during the Christmas holiday period until the Illuminations end (bearing in mind that no services are run on Xmas/Boxing Day/New Year's Day and the eves of these holidays)

Services would be un-numbered, with a bracketed suffix to the destination of "via North Station" or "NOT via North Station" as appropriate.

 

[davehsug]

There is some disruption this morning, with all trams currently terminating at Thornton Gate. The website doesn't go into details of why.

 

[Vespa]

I don't go to Blackpool North railway station out of principle I drove to Blackpool otherwise I go to Blackpool South if forced to use a train.

While travelling on the tram to North, I took the opportunity to check out if the situation has changed or not, turned out no change tensa barriers across doors and passengers still penned in the concourse.

I think the extension would be better served going past North station to an out of centre 1000-2000 space park and ride site operated by Blackpool transport, the parking ticket including an option of return or all day, weekend or one/two week bus/tram pass, this would take pressure off the town centre and funnel vistors to a profitable revenue stream bypassing North Railway station for some.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think the extension would be better served going past North station to an out of centre 1000-2000 space park and ride site operated by Blackpool transport, the parking ticket including an option of return or all day, weekend or one/two week bus/tram pass, this would take pressure off the town centre and funnel vistors to a profitable revenue stream bypassing North Railway station for some.

The main road access to Blackpool is via the old railway coming out near South. There's loads of parking around there on the old trackbed from which you can easily walk to the tram on the seafront.

 

[Northerngirl]

I suspect that the current timetable will be amended in the light of experience.

IMO, the service needs to be "turn up and go", which requires that each route that is operated runs at least every 15 minutes, as applies on Manchester Metrolink. My suggestion would be to operate a single core daily all day/all year service on the following route, running every 15 minutes:

• Fleetwood to Starr Gate via North Station, with a journey time of no more than 75 minutes achieved by a slight acceleration north of Bispham and a reversing time of 3 minutes at North Station - this should require 11 trams

At the beginning of service, some trams could run direct from Starr Gate to Fleetwood and vice-versa at the end of service, with some short workings from Starr Gate to North Station as well at these times, to ensure that there is an earlier service from North Station to Starr Gate at the start of service and a later service from Starr Gate to North Station at the end of service.

At busier times, a separate additional service would run every 15 minutes from Pleasure Beach direct to Bispham avoiding North Station, taking no more than 25 minutes - this should require 4 trams. As an educated guess, the peak period would be:

• 1000-1800 every day during the holiday season from Good Friday to the day before the Illuminations start
• 1000-2200 every day from the start of the Illuminations to the end of the Autumn half-term holiday and during the Christmas holiday period until the Illuminations end (bearing in mind that no services are run on Xmas/Boxing Day/New Year's Day and the eves of these holidays)

Services would be un-numbered, with a bracketed suffix to the destination of "via North Station" or "NOT via North Station" as appropriate.

Couldn't agree more, the peek tourist services shouldn't come at the detriment of people who live there year round

 

[Blackpool boy]

I think the extension would be better served going past North station to an out of centre 1000-2000 space park and ride site operated by Blackpool transport, the parking ticket including an option of return or all day, weekend or one/two week bus/tram pass, this would take pressure off the town centre and funnel vistors to a profitable revenue stream bypassing North Railway station for some.

And where pray tell would you put this? t would be a big loop to miss the park and hospital to have a P&R from the M65 - which is where most people will be arriving by car/coach from.

If you were to do a P&R youd want the tram to go up squires gate lane to somewhere round the big Tesco at Mereside as there is spare land there but it would be an exceptionally long journey into town it just wouldnt work

 

[cool110]

It would be a big loop to miss the park and hospital to have a P&R from the M65

Especially since the M65 ends on the opposite side of Preston

 

[Vespa]

The main road access to Blackpool is via the old railway coming out near South. There's loads of parking around there on the old trackbed from which you can easily walk to the tram on the seafront.

I'm aware of that parking area.

I'm thinking up Talbot road to Garstang and Poulton Le Fylde not far from Blackpool college, there's a big open field on either side of Garstang Road West for parking, this would make it an interurban tramway.

This requires money and political will

 

[Harvey B]

I'm aware of that parking area.

I'm thinking up Talbot road to Garstang and Poulton Le Fylde not far from Blackpool college, there's a big open field on either side of Garstang Road West for parking, this would make it an interurban tramway.

This requires money and political will

Would it not be better to go to Poulton via Bispham or the disused Fleetwood Rail line?

This is something that I could see with the North Station services in the evenings or on Sundays. In the evenings the North Station services have been carrying fresh air, and would probably be more beneficial at say after 7pm just having T1s running Starr Gate to Fleetwood via Station instead. Given that it takes roughly 3 minutes to travel between North Pier and the station, plus a quick change of ends, and then back again, it would add barely ten minutes onto the journey.

Would it not be better to have every Fleetwood service go via North Station rather than just the ones on evenings and Sunday?s

It'd be a minor inconvenience for anyone wanting to go from Celveleys to the Pleausure Beach (or vice versa) but at least you wouldn't have to wait at for the Correct Tram to show up or change Trams at North Station

Will be interesting to see if the Bispham turn back trams reappear during the traditional Illuminations period.

If they don't plan on changing the Timetable again to carter for the Summer/Iluminations demand then Bispham/Little Bispham turnbacks are going to be an urgent must

 

[Vespa]

Would it not be better to go to Poulton via Bispham or the disused Fleetwood Rail line?

Like a tram train, could work will it run from the end of Blackpool North tram track ?

 

[Harvey B]

will it run from the end of Blackpool North tram track ?

No, I'm thinking that it'd probably would run via the disused Poulton to Fleetwood line which goes through Thornton.

 

[Vespa]

No, I'm thinking that it'd probably would run via the disused Poulton to Fleetwood line which goes through Thornton.

Bit out of the way, I'm looking at ideas to make more of the North branch.

 

[Trackman]

I'm going to Blackpool in a few weeks time hopefully to ride the whole line, is there live GPS tracking of trams with an app, I bet there is an app, but does it just go from the timetable?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I'm going to Blackpool in a few weeks time hopefully to ride the whole line, is there live GPS tracking of trams with an app, I bet there is an app, but does it just go from the timetable?

There is no live tracking.